What does "in Christ" mean?

[Calv1]

I heard a pastor recently define it this way,

"We are all familiar with being "in the army" or "in the labor union" and "in Christ" simply means we are "in the Christian environment." He was attempting to define "in Christ" in Ephesians 1:3-4 in order to characterize that as its meaning throughout the entire book of Ephesians. He applied it to the Ephesians as a reality but must make it also a choice. They either chose to live "in the Christian environment" or the world environment.

I objected to what I thought to be too broad and general in definition. Instead, I suggested that in redemptive passages it is better understood and defined by comparing with its contrast "in Adam." Being "in the Army" or "in the union" are not persons but organizations. However, being "in Adam" and "in Christ" refer to persons I believe in the sense of the first Adam in comparison with "the Second Adam."

We were "created" in Adam and are in union (physical) with him. Adam acted as our representative in our position and his action was attributed to us. Likewise, we are "created in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:10) and by that action we are in union (spiritual) with him. He also acted as our representative in our position and his positive actions were attributed to us (Rom.5:12-19). Therefore, I believe "in Christ" in redemptive passages refers to being "in a redemptive relationship with Christ" as described in contrast to our fallen relationship with Adam. I agreed it is a realty that must be "put on" to experience it in this life.

What think Ye?

You are right, your pastor is wrong. In the Church are many who are not in Christ.

The answer is simple, to be in Christ simply means to be once for all regenerated by the Holy Spirit, "I will send another advocate to be with you forever". So be "In Christ" means to have the Holy Spirit, it does not mean some wild experience although that can be part of it if the Lord chooses to pour out His Spirit in that fashion, "The wind blows where it will, you know not where it comes from or where it goes, same with the Spirit".

So if you are regenerated, many things have happened, you are an adopted Child of God, you are seated in Heaven with Christ, that is your spirit, you don't do what you would, do what you wouldn't, and fight the dead body on you the rest of your day's until it dies, and your spirit goes to be ever with the Lord!

The Elect have amazing privileges, we get to suffer for Him Heb 12, and if we don't we are illegitimate, the Lord rejoices over us with singing Zep 3:17, we've passed from death to life, judge all things, and have a Father/Son relationship with God almighty. It's a good thing to check into who we really are, subordinate Kings in Heaven, rulers over angels, going past the angelic realm to the realm of Christ, we have it made and should rejoice every day.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are right, your pastor is wrong. In the Church are many who are not in Christ.

The answer is simple, to be in Christ simply means to be once for all regenerated by the Holy Spirit, "I will send another advocate to be with you forever". So be "In Christ" means to have the Holy Spirit, it does not mean some wild experience although that can be part of it if the Lord chooses to pour out His Spirit in that fashion, "The wind blows where it will, you know not where it comes from or where it goes, same with the Spirit".

So if you are regenerated, many things have happened, you are an adopted Child of God, you are seated in Heaven with Christ, that is your spirit, you don't do what you would, do what you wouldn't, and fight the dead body on you the rest of your day's until it dies, and your spirit goes to be ever with the Lord!

The Elect have amazing privileges, we get to suffer for Him Heb 12, and if we don't we are illegitimate, the Lord rejoices over us with singing Zep 3:17, we've passed from death to life, judge all things, and have a Father/Son relationship with God almighty. It's a good thing to check into who we really are, subordinate Kings in Heaven, rulers over angels, going past the angelic realm to the realm of Christ, we have it made and should rejoice every day.

Being in Christ is the act of union done by the Holy Spirit when at the time of conversation he places us in the body of Christ, by the Baptism in the Holy Spirit!

 

[The Biblicist]

After giving this some more deeper thought, I believe that at least theoretically that those who define "in Christ" particularly in such contexts as Ephesians 1:1-14 as "a Christian environment" are teaching "another gospel." My reasons for that conclusion are: (1). The "Christian environment" is a product of Christ's finished work and has more to do with Christ "in you" working in and through your body and life. However, "in Christ" in the Ephesian 1:1-14 context has to do with the work that only the Triune God can do that obtains initial salvation for you based upon the finished work that Christ did alone through his own body for you. Thus, by defining "in Christ" by "a Christian Environment" one is doing precisely what the Seventh Day Adventist do in confusing regeneration/justification with sanctification.

"in Christ" refers to the Father's purpose to choose and predestinate (Eph. 1:4-6) that the finished redemptive work of Christ (Eph. 1:7-11) would be applied to secure initial salvation by the Holy Spirit to the elect (Eph. 1:12-14). Hence, "in Christ" contextually is defined as existing in a personal relationship with Christ as Savior based upon this threefold work of the Divine Persons.

 

[Calv1]

Both words are used in the same sentence.
There must be a connection.
I don't believe water baptism is the primary sense of this sentence.

When I put on a suit I am in the suit.
I have been baptized into the Body of Christ - I am therefore in Christ.

My view.

HankD

If I may, I think we're all saying the same thing in different ways. Surely if we are Regenerated, the Holy Spirit abides in us, we are a long list of things, Adopted, New Creations, and IN CHRIST. I don't think Hank here is saying Baptism itself is "In Christ", millions of unbelievers have been baptized, Stalin was baptized, if I can speak for Hank and his verse it's the "Baptism of Christ", "Baptism of the heart" that it's referring to.

I promise you all, to be "In Christ" is not complicated, it's being born again, Regenerated, in short saved, we are at that moment seated in the heavenlys, there is nothing more to it. All true Christians are IN CHRIST, whether we feel like it or not, whether we are in fellowship or not.

 

[Calv1]

Being in Christ is the act of union done by the Holy Spirit when at the time of conversation he places us in the body of Christ, by the Baptism in the Holy Spirit!

Exactly, that simple

 

[HankD]

The baptism I referred to in the Galatians passage is in my view not water baptism but the baptism of the Spirit putting us into the body of Christ.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

HankD

 

[The Biblicist]

The baptism I referred to in the Galatians passage is in my view not water baptism but the baptism of the Spirit putting us into the body of Christ.

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

HankD

I believe that to be an impossible interpretation for that passage for many reasons. First and foremost,the fallen condition as to its bottom line is spiritual separation from God and that did not begin or end at Pentecost. Second, the fall of man is pinpointed in time and place in Genesis 3. Third, the baptism in the Spirit is also pinpointed in time (Acts 1:4-5) and place and far too late to be the remedy for spiritual separation which is the fallen condition. Fourth, the only possible remedy for the fallen condition (spiritual separation from God) is spiritual union with God through Christ, so if the baptism in the Spirit is defined as spiritual union it is far too late in time and place to deal with the past 4000 years of fallen men. Fifth, there is no such human being who is not "in Adam" and/or not "in Christ" as there is no third status (Rom. 8:8-9). Sixth, if "any man" is without the indwelling Spirit "he is none of his" regardless if we are speaking in Genesis or Revelation then or now. Seventh, the very nature of spiritual union requires Spirit indwelling because the spirit that needs to be reunited with the Spirit of God lives within your body and where there is no spiritual union there is but spiritual death. Eighth, there is no kind of baptism that brings any fallen man into spiritual union with God through Christ or "in Christ" but that is the creative work of God called regeneration or quickening (Eph. 2:10). Ninth, there is no other salvation provided by man at any time or any place between Genesis to revelation that is OUTSIDE of Christ. Tenth, and last, therefore, the baptism in the Spirit is too late to be construed as personal individual dwelling or spiritual union, thus the solution to spiritual separation. The baptism in the Spirit is promised only to water baptized believers who met at a particular place in Jerusalem as the new "house of God" and is the typical ordinary manner by which all previous new houses of God had been authenticated (Ex. 40:35; 2 Chron. 7:1-3) and new kingdom administrations have been confirmed. In the gospels we have the establishing of a new covenant administration within the kingdom of God with a new "house of God" built by Christ composed of water baptized believers assembled as spiritual stones with a new ordained ministry, with new ordinances and a new mission encompassing the Gentile world but which has NOTHING to do with individual salvation or with gospel salvation or with spiritual union or being "in Christ" as the same gospel, same salvation, same solution has been preached and administered since Genesis 3:15 (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; 13:20). Therefore, the bottom line is that there is no salvation OUTSIDE of Christ but only "in Christ" and that begins with spiritual union as spiritual separation is the state of being dead in tresspasses and sins, and that cannot possibly be the time and place Pentecost located baptism in the Spirit.

Galatians 3:27 refers to PUTTING ON Christ in an external symbolic manner as the Roman heir would put on a white toga that declared he is heir. It is WATER baptism. Just as putting on the white toga did not make the 18 year old heir but only declared him such, so baptism does not make us an heir of God but declares us to be through the finished work of Christ as symbolized in baptism as his death,burial and resurrection.

 

[HankD]

I believe that to be an impossible interpretation for that passage for many reasons. First and foremost,the fallen condition as to its bottom line is spiritual separation from God and that did not begin or end at Pentecost. Second, the fall of man is pinpointed in time and place in Genesis 3. Third, the baptism in the Spirit is also pinpointed in time (Acts 1:4-5) and place and far too late to be the remedy for spiritual separation which is the fallen condition. Fourth, the only possible remedy for the fallen condition (spiritual separation from God) is spiritual union with God through Christ, so if the baptism in the Spirit is defined as spiritual union it is far too late in time and place to deal with the past 4000 years of fallen men. Fifth, there is no such human being who is not "in Adam" and/or not "in Christ" as there is no third status (Rom. 8:8-9). Sixth, if "any man" is without the indwelling Spirit "he is none of his" regardless if we are speaking in Genesis or Revelation then or now. Seventh, the very nature of spiritual union requires Spirit indwelling because the spirit that needs to be reunited with the Spirit of God lives within your body and where there is no spiritual union there is but spiritual death. Eighth, there is no kind of baptism that brings any fallen man into spiritual union with God through Christ or "in Christ" but that is the creative work of God called regeneration or quickening (Eph. 2:10). Ninth, there is no other salvation provided by man at any time or any place between Genesis to revelation that is OUTSIDE of Christ. Tenth, and last, therefore, the baptism in the Spirit is too late to be construed as personal individual dwelling or spiritual union, thus the solution to spiritual separation. The baptism in the Spirit is promised only to water baptized believers who met at a particular place in Jerusalem as the new "house of God" and is the typical ordinary manner by which all previous new houses of God had been authenticated (Ex. 40:35; 2 Chron. 7:1-3) and new kingdom administrations have been confirmed. In the gospels we have the establishing of a new covenant administration within the kingdom of God with a new "house of God" built by Christ composed of water baptized believers assembled as spiritual stones with a new ordained ministry, with new ordinances and a new mission encompassing the Gentile world but which has NOTHING to do with individual salvation or with gospel salvation or with spiritual union or being "in Christ" as the same gospel, same salvation, same solution has been preached and administered since Genesis 3:15 (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; 13:20). Therefore, the bottom line is that there is no salvation OUTSIDE of Christ but only "in Christ" and that begins with spiritual union as spiritual separation is the state of being dead in tresspasses and sins, and that cannot possibly be the time and place Pentecost located baptism in the Spirit.

Galatians 3:27 refers to PUTTING ON Christ in an external symbolic manner as the Roman heir would put on a white toga that declared he is heir. It is WATER baptism. Just as putting on the white toga did not make the 18 year old heir but only declared him such, so baptism does not make us an heir of God but declares us to be through the finished work of Christ as symbolized in baptism as his death,burial and resurrection.

Thank you for that voluminous input.

My view however is not impossible.
If it were impossible I would not be able to make it.
I believe you mean it is not the correct view.

Your point of view therefore would of necessity mean that those who have not been baptized by being immersed in water are not "in Christ" including all Methodists, Presbyterians (including Calvin himself), Lutherans, etc though they have been born of the Spirit.
True?
Have they received eternal life?

Thanks
HankD

 

[TCassidy]

True?

No. That is not what he said.

 

[HankD]

No. That is not what he said.

I am sincerely confused.

Biblicist please respond when you read this.

Thanks
HankD

 

[Iconoclast]

Exactly, that simple

Spirit Baptism is a one time event credentialing the church as God's NT. Institution.

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe that to be an impossible interpretation for that passage for many reasons. First and foremost,the fallen condition as to its bottom line is spiritual separation from God and that did not begin or end at Pentecost. Second, the fall of man is pinpointed in time and place in Genesis 3. Third, the baptism in the Spirit is also pinpointed in time (Acts 1:4-5) and place and far too late to be the remedy for spiritual separation which is the fallen condition. Fourth, the only possible remedy for the fallen condition (spiritual separation from God) is spiritual union with God through Christ, so if the baptism in the Spirit is defined as spiritual union it is far too late in time and place to deal with the past 4000 years of fallen men. Fifth, there is no such human being who is not "in Adam" and/or not "in Christ" as there is no third status (Rom. 8:8-9). Sixth, if "any man" is without the indwelling Spirit "he is none of his" regardless if we are speaking in Genesis or Revelation then or now. Seventh, the very nature of spiritual union requires Spirit indwelling because the spirit that needs to be reunited with the Spirit of God lives within your body and where there is no spiritual union there is but spiritual death. Eighth, there is no kind of baptism that brings any fallen man into spiritual union with God through Christ or "in Christ" but that is the creative work of God called regeneration or quickening (Eph. 2:10). Ninth, there is no other salvation provided by man at any time or any place between Genesis to revelation that is OUTSIDE of Christ. Tenth, and last, therefore, the baptism in the Spirit is too late to be construed as personal individual dwelling or spiritual union, thus the solution to spiritual separation. The baptism in the Spirit is promised only to water baptized believers who met at a particular place in Jerusalem as the new "house of God" and is the typical ordinary manner by which all previous new houses of God had been authenticated (Ex. 40:35; 2 Chron. 7:1-3) and new kingdom administrations have been confirmed. In the gospels we have the establishing of a new covenant administration within the kingdom of God with a new "house of God" built by Christ composed of water baptized believers assembled as spiritual stones with a new ordained ministry, with new ordinances and a new mission encompassing the Gentile world but which has NOTHING to do with individual salvation or with gospel salvation or with spiritual union or being "in Christ" as the same gospel, same salvation, same solution has been preached and administered since Genesis 3:15 (Acts 10:43; Heb. 4:2; 13:20). Therefore, the bottom line is that there is no salvation OUTSIDE of Christ but only "in Christ" and that begins with spiritual union as spiritual separation is the state of being dead in tresspasses and sins, and that cannot possibly be the time and place Pentecost located baptism in the Spirit.

Galatians 3:27 refers to PUTTING ON Christ in an external symbolic manner as the Roman heir would put on a white toga that declared he is heir. It is WATER baptism. Just as putting on the white toga did not make the 18 year old heir but only declared him such, so baptism does not make us an heir of God but declares us to be through the finished work of Christ as symbolized in baptism as his death,burial and resurrection.

Overall I agree with Biblicist here.I have some differences with some of His application,but I admit I might have some defects in my understanding that could be the cause of some of that.
I believe Union with Christ is the heart of the gospel...but I still struggle to grasp it all....I have to re-examine my understanding quite often here.
Biblicist has challenged me on this in times past and makes a solid biblical case that needs careful consideration.

 

[TCassidy]

Your point of view therefore would of necessity mean that those who have not been baptized by being immersed in water are not "in Christ"

No. That is not what he means. Water baptism is the "putting on" of our testimony of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ on our behalf.

Many saved people don't have a good testimony. Saved Methodists, Presbyterians, etc., are saved, they just don't have the outward, public testimony of water baptism to publicly proclaim their salvation.

Water baptism proclaims the death, burial (down into the water), and resurrection (up out of the water) of Christ on our behalf.

How does sprinkling water on someone's head proclaim death, burial, and resurrection?

I have performed dozen upon dozens of funerals, and never once have a sprinkled dirt on the corps's head and proclaimed, "There. All done. Burial complete."

 

[HankD]

OK Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The preposition is eis (into).
The first verb root is baptizo (baptize) and in this passage aorist passive indicative.
The second verb root is ἐνδύω enduo (to put on) and in this passage is aorist middle indicative.

The middle voice is NOT equivalent to the active voice.

In terms of the English idiom, for English there is no approximate parallel.
...
The middle voice is that use of the verb which describes the subject as participating in the results of the action.

Author's italicizing. A manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, Dana and Mantey, The Macmillan Company,1955. Pgs 156,157, sections 154,155.

I have been placed (Baptized) into the body of Christ and therefore the action has caused me to be "in Christ" by the action of the baptizer.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This happened BEFORE my total immersion in water baptism when I was born from above.

I was already "in Christ" when I was baptized in water.

I remained "in Christ" after my water baptism and will be for eternity whether baptized in molecular water (which will perish) or not.

The Spirit abideth forever.

B, you asked "what say ye".

This is what I say. Nothing you have said has convinced me otherwise but thank you for asking and giving your own view.

HankD

 

[HankD]

No. That is not what he means. Water baptism is the "putting on" of our testimony of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ on our behalf.

Many saved people don't have a good testimony. Saved Methodists, Presbyterians, etc., are saved, they just don't have the outward, public testimony of water baptism to publicly proclaim their salvation.

Water baptism proclaims the death, burial (down into the water), and resurrection (up out of the water) of Christ on our behalf.

How does sprinkling water on someone's head proclaim death, burial, and resurrection?

I have performed dozen upon dozens of funerals, and never once have a sprinkled dirt on the corps's head and proclaimed, "There. All done. Burial complete."

No problem Tom with what you say here.
Biblicist and I have a differing view of Galatians 3:27.

HankD

 

[The Biblicist]

OK Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The preposition is eis (into).
The first verb root is baptizo (baptize) and in this passage aorist passive indicative.
The second verb root is ἐνδύω enduo (to put on) and in this passage is aorist middle indicative.

The middle voice is NOT equivalent to the active voice.

Author's italicizing. A manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, Dana and Mantey, The Macmillan Company,1955. Pgs 156,157, sections 154,155.

I have been placed (Baptized) into the body of Christ and therefore the action has caused me to be "in Christ" by the action of the baptizer.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

This happened BEFORE my total immersion in water baptism when I was born from above.

I was already "in Christ" when I was baptized in water.

I remained "in Christ" after my water baptism and will be for eternity whether baptized in molecular water (which will perish) or not.

The Spirit abideth forever.

B, you asked "what say ye".

This is what I say. Nothing you have said has convinced me otherwise but thank you for asking and giving your own view.

HankD

The METAPHORICAL body of Christ is the local congregation which Paul says "YE ARE" (1 Cor. 12:27) not "we are" individual metaphorial "members." So yes, we are baptized by water into the REPRESENTATIVE "body of Christ" If you will go back and look at my post where I list SEVEN different ways a believer may be in Christ you will see I distinguish between spiritual union with Christ versus representative union.

The baptism in the Spirit on Pentecost is 4000 years too late to be spiritual union or else you have 4000 years of people OUTSIDE of Christ and thus spiritually dead including Abraham who is the example for all who are justified by faith.

 

[The Biblicist]

OK Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The preposition is eis (into).
The first verb root is baptizo (baptize) and in this passage aorist passive indicative.
The second verb root is ἐνδύω enduo (to put on) and in this passage is aorist middle indicative.

The middle voice is NOT equivalent to the active voice.

The first phrase tells what has been done to the believer by the administrator of baptism. The first verb is aorist passive (baptized) because it is a one time event wherein the believer is not the administrator but the object of baptism.

The second phrase describes the obedience of the believer with regard to baptism.The second verb is aorist middle, because the Scripture commands believers to be baptized and therefore the action of obedience begins with the believer but has for its object the believer.

However, your view should not have the middle voice at all because your concept of the baptism in the Spirit demands that the believer is completely passive in all aspects with regard to immersing action into the Spirit.

Last, nothing is said about the Spirit here but Christ. The baptism in the Spirit has the Spirit as the element whereas water baptism has the metaphorical or representative body of Christ as the element defined as membership (1 Cor. 6:15). In I Corinthians 6 it is the PHYSICAL BODY of the believer that is identified as a "member" of the body of Christ and that is through water baptism (1 Cor. 12:13).

 

[HankD]

="The Biblicist, post: 2334383, member: 11148"]...However, your view should not have the middle voice at all because your concept of the baptism in the Spirit demands that the believer is completely passive in all aspects.

I don't believe that is necessarily so but I did ponder that myself.

Aorist can even point to the future after the completed verb action.

IOW my will has been freed, my middle voice participation thereof is to put on Christ as you say - like the toga.


Hmm this post got really scrambled, my fault no doubt.
HankD

 

[HankD]

Last, nothing is said about the Spirit here but Christ. The baptism in the Spirit has the Spirit as the element whereas water baptism has the metaphorical or representative body of Christ as the element defined as membership (1 Cor. 6:15). In I Corinthians 6 it is the PHYSICAL BODY of the believer that is identified as a "member" of the body of Christ and that is through water baptism (1 Cor. 12:13).

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I would say this passage is support that the baptizer of Galatians 3:27 is the Spirit

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

HankD

 

[The Biblicist]

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

I would say this passage is support that the baptizer of Galatians 3:27 is the Spirit

Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

HankD

The preceding context and following context for 1 Cor. 12;13 demands it is water baptism into the congregational body (1 Cor. 12:27) not baptism into the Spirit. I can provide the overall context to demonstrate this if you wish to know why I say that. Your view of Galatians 3:27 has no room for the middle voice at all, as believers have no participating action in the act of immersion into the Spirit.