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What does the altar call mean to you?

JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
1689Dave said:
If you meow like a cat does that make you one? But if you are a cat you will meow.
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I guess what I am trying to figure out is why you are so opposed to the "confess with your mouth" when suggested in the form of an altar call.

The passage says that if you believe in your heart (here I think that Scripture indicates one is saved) and confess with your mouth (the salvation that has already been wrought) that you will be saved (a future tense salvation).

I think that we agree confession and baptism is not necessary in order for salvation to occur. I see that we agree that post-salvation we are to be baptized. I am not sure why you have argued against confessing one's salvation as being out of line with the biblical picture.

I just can't wrap my head around baptizing someone who has not confessed Christ as Lord. It seems strange to me.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
I guess what I am trying to figure out is why you are so opposed to the "confess with your mouth" when suggested in the form of an altar call.

The passage says that if you believe in your heart (here I think that Scripture indicates one is saved) and confess with your mouth (the salvation that has already been wrought) that you will be saved (a future tense salvation).

I think that we agree confession and baptism is not necessary in order for salvation to occur. I see that we agree that post-salvation we are to be baptized. I am not sure why you have argued against confessing one's salvation as being out of line with the biblical picture.

I just can't wrap my head around baptizing someone who has not confessed Christ as Lord. It seems strange to me.
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Anyone who is saved will confess Christ. But you cannot become saved by confessing Christ. It is not a sacrament like the Catholics have for the same purpose.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
Romans 10:9-10 says otherwise
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“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Romans 10:9–10)

Are you saying this is a sacrament? Or is it something saved people do by nature?

unto = BDAG = into, in, toward, to; to, until, on; for, throughout; up to; into, to; for, to, with respect...
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I don't think anyone is saying that confessing one's faith is a sacrament, @1689Dave . But there is an issue between the belief and baptism that some seem to be missing. We cannot baptize people just because they want to be baptized. There has to be a confession of faith. And I do not see that this confession of faith is a matter between a pastor and the individual - it seems to be a church issue as the Christian becomes a member of a local body.

If you do not have one who believes confess their faith prior to baptism, then what justification do you use to baptize them?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
JonC said:
I don't think anyone is saying that confessing one's faith is a sacrament, @1689Dave . But there is an issue between the belief and baptism that some seem to be missing. We cannot baptize people just because they want to be baptized. There has to be a confession of faith. And I do not see that this confession of faith is a matter between a pastor and the individual - it seems to be a church issue as the Christian becomes a member of a local body.

If you do not have one who believes confess their faith prior to baptism, then what justification do you use to baptize them?
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If they request baptism or show up for it, isn't that proof enough they believe? It is certainly more involved than "going forward" and reciting a sacrament people end up trusting in instead of Jesus.
 
L

LDE

New Member
1689Dave said:
I think the church consist's of believers meeting to fellowship, even if at Micky D's
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I agree, the church is folks .. But that wasn't the question .. And there's many things biblical that many neglect ..
Building a church is good, even has an address and usually a phone # .. And if you build a church what's wrong with having an alter ?
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
LDE said:
I agree, the church is folks .. But that wasn't the question .. And there's many things biblical that many neglect ..
Building a church is good, even has an address and usually a phone # .. And if you build a church what's wrong with having an alter ?
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Altar? It's unscriptural and misused.
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
1689Dave said:
“That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,....thou shalt be saved. .....with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.” (Romans 10:9–10)
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Trying to characterize it as a sacrement is a debate tactic, it is dishonest, and does not nurture a conversation. Confessing or calling out to God (v.13) is neither a sacrement nor is it a work. It is a needed response from us to be saved. Just because God requires a response a from us does not mean it is up to us.

Not sure why that needs explaining
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
1689Dave said:
If they request baptism or show up for it, isn't that proof enough they believe? It is certainly more involved than "going forward" and reciting a sacrament people end up trusting in instead of Jesus.
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I do not believe so. I believe one needs to confess with their mouths that Christ is Lord.
 
1689Dave

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
Revmitchell said:
Trying to characterize it as a sacrement is a debate tactic, it is dishonest, and does not nurture a conversation. Confessing or calling out to God (v.13) is neither a sacrement nor is it a work. It is a needed response from us to be saved. Just because God requires a response a from us does not mean it is up to us.

Not sure why that needs explaining
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Is Paul providing a sacrament? Or assuring us if we do this we are saved? "Confession made unto salvation" also means "confession regarding salvation".
 
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