What does the Catholic Church say about us who believe in salvation by faith alone?

[rsr]

[


The "Anointing of the Sick" sacrament is as follows. In paragraph 1523 entitled: A preparation for the final journey, the Church says: "If the sacrament of the anointing of the sick is given to all who suffer from serious illness..........even more rightly is it given to those at the point of departing this life.......". And: "..... This last anointing fortifies the end of our earthly life like a solid rampart for the final struggles before entering the Father's house". What in heaven's name is wrong with that teaching?

But let us go to the Scriptures shall we? "Is any among you sick? Let him call for the presbyters of the Church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven". (James 5: 14-15).

Don't you pray for family members and friends who are sick or dying? I sure hope so, and the Church as a whole does likewise.

Unfortunately, the magisterium changes its mind on such things. Pre-Vatican II, the Latin Rite tended to lump the anointing mentioned in James with the "last rites." The modern practice is that anointing should be applied to the sick, even though they may not be at death's door. That, in fact, is in line with James' teaching.

The concept of "last rites," of course, is without any foundation in scripture, except that it extends the priest's ability to forgive sin (yes, I know he doesn't actually "forgive sin" because he's simply exercising the power supposedly given him, but that's a really dangerous road to go down because you're assuming that the priest has not only authority by also the knowledge of God; but I digress).

If a person wants a priest, or a Baptist pastor, as death approaches, that's fine with me (though I see no particular efficacy other than providing comfort). But to put people in fear of their eternal destination without the participation of a priest or pastor is just wrong and contrary to the spirit of the New Testament.

 

[utilyan]

Verse please. I want to read these statements where Satan agrees with God's word.

If he agrees he would be cooperating.

I think you should re-read what I said carefully, out loud too because there is no telling what you think I mean.

 

[utilyan]

Indeed, Jesus is the head and his chosen people are the body. The Roman church is just a group that is no different than the Free Church in Topeka, Kansas. There will be some in the congregation who are truly believers and some whom Jesus doesn't know.
Where you have zero standing is in imagining that the Roman church and it's leaders are in Christ. Sadly the non-biblical teachings of the Roman church cannot be anything that Jesus is pleased with.

We feed the hungry, heal the sick, take in the orphans. We are still waiting for you to see "how its really done".

Whats the name of that super charity church you got there?


Matthew 7

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

28When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching; 29for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.

 

[Adonia]

Indeed, Jesus is the head and his chosen people are the body. The Roman church is just a group that is no different than the Free Church in Topeka, Kansas. There will be some in the congregation who are truly believers and some whom Jesus doesn't know.
Where you have zero standing is in imagining that the Roman church and it's leaders are in Christ. Sadly the non-biblical teachings of the Roman church cannot be anything that Jesus is pleased with.

Only in your mind are the teachings of the Catholic Church non-biblical. You cannot see the forest because of the trees.

 

[Adonia]

Sure they do. But the scriptures share nothing about a celebate priesthood or last rites.
Adonia, there is a difference between God's inspired word and a tradition started by one church in the city of Rome.

St. Paul talks about celibacy, so once again you are wrong. I pointed out the Scriptures about what we call the "Last Rites", and again you are simply wrong. It has the power to "bind and loose", passed on the succeeding generations of leaders by those (The Apostles) who had the power given to them by Christ himself to do so. So you are wrong again! (Congratulations, you have hit the trifecta!)

The Universal Church was not just one church, it was THE Christian Church - there was no other and everyone listened to it until the first great schism between East and West in the 11th century. That is the historical fact that you choose to ignore.

 

[MennoSota]

We feed the hungry, heal the sick, take in the orphans. We are still waiting for you to see "how its really done".

Whats the name of that super charity church you got there?


Matthew 7

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

28When Jesus had finished these words, the crowds were amazed at His teaching; 29for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.

Pride is your middle name. Mormons do the same, as do Jehovah's Witness.

 

[MennoSota]

Only in your mind are the teachings of the Catholic Church non-biblical. You cannot see the forest because of the trees.

Not just in the mind. Many teachings of the Roman church have zero basis in the Bible. They are created from smoke and mirrors.

 

[MennoSota]

St. Paul talks about celibacy, so once again you are wrong. I pointed out the Scriptures about what we call the "Last Rites", and again you are simply wrong. It has the power to "bind and loose", passed on the succeeding generations of leaders by those (The Apostles) who had the power given to them by Christ himself to do so. So you are wrong again! (Congratulations, you have hit the trifecta!)

The Universal Church was not just one church, it was THE Christian Church - there was no other and everyone listened to it until the first great schism between East and West in the 11th century. That is the historical fact that you choose to ignore.

Sure Paul talks about celibacy. Paul never talks about creating a priesthood and enforcing celibacy on them. Peter, the imagined first Pope, was married.

There is no magical binding and loosening done by the priest in regard to a person's soul at the death bed. Another example of the Roman church making stuff up.

The universal church is God's chosen people. The denomination where they meet to fellowship is many, not just the Roman church. In fact only a small group meets at the Roman church because the Roman church fails to teach salvation by grace through faith.

 

[Yeshua1]

No, not correct. The Sacraments, those "sacred" things, help us to live holy and pleasing lives to God, they bring us closer to Him as we live here on earth.

The very monent God sends His Holy spirit to inswell us, at the time faith placed into Jesus, we cannot be any closer to Him , as from then on God sees us just as he does Jesus Himself, as jesus righteousness now ours!

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course one must co-operate with God, anything less makes one out of touch with Him. One just cannot lay claim to the title Christian, one must act accordingly. And then to grace, what is it? It is the work of God in our lives.

We CANNOT become any more spiritual though, as when saved by God, fully justified by Him! NO need for any additional Graces as in sacraments!

 

[Yeshua1]

Satan doesn't cooperate with God either and agrees with you.

Jesus death paid for all of my sins, so why do we need to get any additional graces, as God declares us to be just as righteousness as Jesus is when we receive Him thru faith alone?

 

[utilyan]

Jesus death paid for all of my sins, so why do we need to get any additional graces, as God declares us to be just as righteousness as Jesus is when we receive Him thru faith alone?

Bible Verse.

 

[utilyan]

Pride is your middle name. Mormons do the same, as do Jehovah's Witness.

So what church is that again your in?

James 2

14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.


He's talking about you and your dead faith, brother.

Answer the man: if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

NOPE!


The whole point of the chapter is how to answer folks like you.




20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Well of course I recognize needing works. Who's the fool he is talking to here? Show us an example of someone who HAS FAITH and no works.

 

[MennoSota]

So what church is that again your in?

James 2

14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.


He's talking about you and your dead faith, brother.

Answer the man: if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

NOPE!


The whole point of the chapter is how to answer folks like you.




20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

Well of course I recognize needing works. Who's the fool he is talking to here? Show us an example of someone who HAS FAITH and no works.

Utilyan, now I know why you ask others to tell you what the Bible means. You really struggle to understand grace.

As for your foolish claims about myself and my brothers not caring for others and having faith displayed through what we do, you have no clue. Because God has given us the gift of faith, there is a very natural and joyous work of love that results.
But, you have no clue because you imagine that you somehow win a good works race. All I see is you being immensely pridefilled, while remaining completely ignorant of what I do and what my brothers do.
Why do you choose ignorance? Is it simply your pride at work in your life?

 

[Adonia]

Sure Paul talks about celibacy. Paul never talks about creating a priesthood and enforcing celibacy on them. Peter, the imagined first Pope, was married.

There is no magical binding and loosening done by the priest in regard to a person's soul at the death bed. Another example of the Roman church making stuff up.

The universal church is God's chosen people. The denomination where they meet to fellowship is many, not just the Roman church. In fact only a small group meets at the Roman church because the Roman church fails to teach salvation by grace through faith.

The ministerial priesthood was created with the ordination of people via the scriptural "laying on of hands". As for Peter, didn't he leave his family for the spreading of the Gospel? We disagree on whether or not the binding and loosing power ended with the Apostles. I say it continued on with the leaders of the Universal Christian Church, so do you have any proof this power didn't?

 

[utilyan]

0

Utilyan, now I know why you ask others to tell you what the Bible means. You really struggle to understand grace.

As for your foolish claims about myself and my brothers not caring for others and having faith displayed through what we do, you have no clue. Because God has given us the gift of faith, there is a very natural and joyous work of love that results.
But, you have no clue because you imagine that you somehow win a good works race. All I see is you being immensely pridefilled, while remaining completely ignorant of what I do and what my brothers do.
Why do you choose ignorance? Is it simply your pride at work in your life?

You didn't answer James question.


Jesus Christ COMMANDS me to put you in a good works race!

Matthew 7

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Where is your GOOD FRUIT?


Are you saying The advice of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is trash?



Show us your GOOD WORKS!

Matthew 5

14“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


Do you have a problem glorifying your father who is in heaven?


Scripture says you cannot be saved by faith alone James 2, you say BACKWARDS.

Scripture says Good Works is to be seen by all and the false prophets do not show good fruits either, you say Backwards.


Backwards Backwards Backwards.

 

[MennoSota]

0


You didn't answer James question.


Jesus Christ COMMANDS me to put you in a good works race!

Matthew 7

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Where is your GOOD FRUIT?


Are you saying The advice of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is trash?



Show us your GOOD WORKS!

Matthew 5

14“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


Do you have a problem glorifying your father who is in heaven?


Scripture says you cannot be saved by faith alone James 2, you say BACKWARDS.

Scripture says Good Works is to be seen by all and the false prophets do not show good fruits either, you say Backwards.


Backwards Backwards Backwards.

LOL "Jesus commands me to put you in a good works race."
That's some funny stuff.
No, Jesus looks at us and asks us if we love him. Then he says "Feed my sheep."

You sound like Donald Trump, utilyan. It's all about you and you pimping yourself as something special.

Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, but do it all to the glory of God.

Matthew 6:2-4New American Standard Bible (NASB)

2 “So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

 

[utilyan]

LOL "Jesus commands me to put you in a good works race."
That's some funny stuff.
No, Jesus looks at us and asks us if we love him. Then he says "Feed my sheep."

You sound like Donald Trump, utilyan. It's all about you and you pimping yourself as something special.

Don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, but do it all to the glory of God.

Matthew 6:2-4New American Standard Bible (NASB)

2 “So when you give to the poor, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

Wait pal why correct me? That's a good work.

Why not just ask God to fix it?

You don't even believe what you claim.

 

[Yeshua1]

Bible Verse.

Wait pal why correct me? That's a good work.

Why not just ask God to fix it?

You don't even believe what you claim.

Wait pal why correct me? That's a good work.

Why not just ask God to fix it?

You don't even believe what you claim.

We are right now covered and clothed in His righteousness, correct? And paul stated that right now we have been translated out from Kingdom of satan unto that of Jesus, and are eternally secured in Him, correct? So why add to his finished work on our behalf, as he did claim that it was finished on Cross, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

0


You didn't answer James question.


Jesus Christ COMMANDS me to put you in a good works race!

Matthew 7

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Where is your GOOD FRUIT?


Are you saying The advice of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is trash?



Show us your GOOD WORKS!

Matthew 5

14“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; 15nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.


Do you have a problem glorifying your father who is in heaven?


Scripture says you cannot be saved by faith alone James 2, you say BACKWARDS.

Scripture says Good Works is to be seen by all and the false prophets do not show good fruits either, you say Backwards.


Backwards Backwards Backwards.

Good works evidence that are already saved, not cause of it!