Ummmm!... Interesting thought Kentucky!... Never thought of that before?... Brother Glen
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
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What Happened To mankind in the fall of Adam ?
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Ummmm!... Interesting thought Kentucky!... Never thought of that before?... Brother Glen
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
All that happened long before man , Man did not exist when Satan fell. Satan sinned in Heaven.
Read Eze. 28 as the King of Tyrus.
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
The heart is not only deceitful it is deceitful above all things.
The heart is not only wicked it is desperately wicked.
It is not known until God reveals it to us.
Jesus most often identified with the title "Son of man". IMHO, it would be foolish to believe this was just a bookmark to Daniel. So we have to ask, why? Was Jesus really a "son of man"? Did Jesus truly come in the likeness of sinful flesh? Was he really human? All of this and yet without sin?
Or is there a third nature, one that Scripture simply omits but teaches by implication? Is there a human nature that only three people (Adam, Eve, and Jesus) possessed? Was the biblical teaching that Jesus shared in our circumstances, our natures, our temptations so that he can truly empathize with us simply an exaggeration? Was Jesus "more human than human"?
On this board it has been claimed that had Jesus not been killed by the Jews he would have lived forever. He never caught a cold, had a stomach ache, ran a fever. Can this Jesus really identify with us who are subject to death and prone to illness?
I believe that Scripture goes to great lengths to affirm the first statement - that Jesus was truly human (as we are human). The second idea (that there is a third nature men may possess yet is unmentioned in Scripture) seems to be dependent on theological conclusions and not remotely close to Scripture itself. There are far too many assumptions made regarding the nature of sin (passed down genetically, physical, a result of nature and not the will) to be taken seriously. Scripture tells us why our hearts are wicked - why we sin. It is not because of our nature...not even because of our desires. It is because we feed our desires when faced with temptation. We turn to ourselves rather than to God. But what has been proposed as a "sin nature" here (to demonstrate Jesus did not come "in the flesh" as we are "flesh" is nothing short of an old heresy repackaged.
Or is there a third nature, one that Scripture simply omits but teaches by implication? Is there a human nature that only three people (Adam, Eve, and Jesus) possessed? Was the biblical teaching that Jesus shared in our circumstances, our natures, our temptations so that he can truly empathize with us simply an exaggeration? Was Jesus "more human than human"?
On this board it has been claimed that had Jesus not been killed by the Jews he would have lived forever. He never caught a cold, had a stomach ache, ran a fever. Can this Jesus really identify with us who are subject to death and prone to illness?
I believe that Scripture goes to great lengths to affirm the first statement - that Jesus was truly human (as we are human). The second idea (that there is a third nature men may possess yet is unmentioned in Scripture) seems to be dependent on theological conclusions and not remotely close to Scripture itself. There are far too many assumptions made regarding the nature of sin (passed down genetically, physical, a result of nature and not the will) to be taken seriously. Scripture tells us why our hearts are wicked - why we sin. It is not because of our nature...not even because of our desires. It is because we feed our desires when faced with temptation. We turn to ourselves rather than to God. But what has been proposed as a "sin nature" here (to demonstrate Jesus did not come "in the flesh" as we are "flesh" is nothing short of an old heresy repackaged.
Jesus was/is indeed truly human subject to death as was proven by his murder.
man was not meant to be a sinner.
To deny the sin nature is IMO a desperate attempt to find some some goodness in the human heart.
Therefore the heart is indeed desperately wicked - in sin did my mother conceive me.
man was not meant to be a sinner.
To deny the sin nature is IMO a desperate attempt to find some some goodness in the human heart.
Therefore the heart is indeed desperately wicked - in sin did my mother conceive me.
I believe the difference may be in the assumption that denying a "sin nature" would imply that there is goodness in the human heart. It seems to me that Scripture very often speaks of two natures - the "flesh" and the "spirit". Righteousness and unrighteousness are not dependent on our nature but rather on what we do. A mind set on the "flesh" is at enmity with God (note, the flesh itself is not the issue but the mind that is set on the flesh...I believe on the desires of the flesh).
What this does (for those who do not believe in a separate "sin nature") is compound human guilt. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God because all set their minds on the desires of the flesh. All but Christ, who came in the same flesh - who came like us - yet did all things in obedience to the Father. Therefore we also should have this same mind that is in Christ, that he humbled himself in obedience to the Father. And we, then, being in Christ are not in the flesh but the Spirit.
I believe this makes more sense than introducing a separate "sin nature", especially as it seems to be kind of a third wheel to many of the arguments of Scripture (which only deals with the "spirit" and the "flesh").
Sin isn't a matter of genetics. God made a body for His eternal Son. That is all.
Christ was not in Adam when Adam sinned. Christ is Adam's creator.
We, however, were created in Adam. We weren't created at the moment of our conception. We were created on the Sixth Day in Adam. Our life, our spirits, is that which was breathed into Adam's nostrils, and when Adam was corrupted, we were corrupted.
Not so Christ.
nope We cannot inherit sin
That's right. We don't inherit it. We were there and were partakers.
Because we are born corrupt. Our corruption occurred in the Garden, in Adam.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned --
The verbs all agree in this passage. In God's sight we all were there when Adam sinned.
We are born guilty.
We come into this world with a love of darkness.
You don't like it that is understandable.
you were/are corrupt from conception.
there is not one molecule in your being that commends you to God apart from Him having made you in His image and likeness.
The verbs all agree in this passage. In God's sight we all were there when Adam sinned.
We are born guilty.
We come into this world with a love of darkness.
You don't like it that is understandable.
you were/are corrupt from conception.
there is not one molecule in your being that commends you to God apart from Him having made you in His image and likeness.
I think we can all agree that we are, seemingly, born Spiritually "Life-less" (or dead, however you want to say it.) That's why our Lord said, "You must be born-again (born from above)." Our spirit-man is unregenerate--we are attracted to that which is contrary to the Nature and Characteristics of God.
I find it interesting, however, that Paul says in Romans 7:9 that he was "alive once" before the law. How does this square up with being born "Spiritually life-less"?
I find it interesting, however, that Paul says in Romans 7:9 that he was "alive once" before the law. How does this square up with being born "Spiritually life-less"?
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:27
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Gen 2:7,22-24
Was that above brought forth for this very purpose ? Of the Word being made flesh? For the manifestation of the Son of God? That, in the fulness of the time, for God to send forth his Son, born of woman? So that the following could take place? Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2:14
Is that why God created Adam and took woman from him?
Why?????????
Doesn't 1 John 3:8 state why this was done? He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, <As Adam, It required Adam and Eve) that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Redemption from death is the means by which God is destroying the works of the devil.
It was the plan before the foundation of the world. Read 1 Peter 1
What all was required in order for God to destroy the works of the devil?
I didn't say I was born there. I said I was created there.
I don't think Creation is a response to something that happened in eternity. The Devil and fallen angels are not heirs of salvation. I think that Creation is an outworking of God's nature, and was done for His glory, and not out of necessity.
We're told all things were created by Christ and for Him. (Col. 1:16) Creation is for the glory of Christ.
It was on this earth that Christ earned a Name above all Names, and where He earned His place in Heaven, and that is why I think we were created, meaning even the Fall was part of the plan to glorify the Son. I don't think the original intent was that we all frolic naked in a garden paradise.
The works of the devil spoken of by John, I think, are his works in us. Adam's corruption was a work of the devil. I don't think John is speaking of Satan's fall.
This is false. Jesus, according to the flesh, decended from Adam through Mary.
The thinking that sin is tied to material things and comes through the male half of conception is a superstition.
We all get our life from Adam. Jesus doesn't. Jesus is eternal. His body could have been made "in the family way" and Christ would still be incorruptible and sinless.
Creation is a response to sin occurring at all. Satan sinned long before Adam. God can be glorified by saving sinners but that is not to say God made us to sin so He could save us.. Totally wrong
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