-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
What Happened To mankind in the fall of Adam ?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
- Start date
- Status
I doubt it.
No. I'm saying that you've made up a hypothetical nature you call a "sin nature". You have yet to show us in Scripture where this thing exists.
They probably didn't.
Did you not read the link to an exposition of Chapter 6 of the Confession?
The conception in Mary is somewhat like the making of Eve from Adam's rib. God took flesh from Adam and made Eve, and God took flesh from Mary and made a body for His Son. Be very careful not to make it sound like Mary was inseminated by God, which is a pagan-ish way of thinking.
Sin is not passed by the man or the woman. You were corrupted in the Garden, because you were in Adam.
I don't doubt some of the older authors believed such (remember, Calvin also believed Jesus was tortured in Hell for three days). Consider Grudem (one you accused of heresy) and his comments on sin in chapter 24 of his systematic theology.
Anyway - here you go:
Was Jesus human like us or a different kind of human?
I understand your concern, as Mormons teach that God physical had sex with Mary and jesus was born from that, but Jesus was conceived in mary by the Holy Spirit overshadowing her, and causing jesus to be able to be born and avoid the effects of the fall.
When did i ever accuse Dr Grudem of heresy? He was wrongon eternal subordination of the Son, and on spiritual gifts, but where was he heretical?
Definition of redeem
transitive verb
1a : to buy back : repurchase ******
: to get or win back
: to free from what distresses or harms: such as
a : to free from captivity by payment of ransom
b : to extricate from or help to overcome something detrimental
c : to release from blame or debt : clear
: to free from the consequences of sin
3: to change for the better : reform
4: repair, restore
5a : to free from a lien by payment of an amount secured thereby
b (1) : to remove the obligation of by payment
- the U.S. Treasury redeems savings bonds on demand
(2) : to exchange for something of value
- redeem trading stamps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
****** Is that what our redemption means? Was it foreordained before the foundation of the world? Before Adam was created?
1 Peter 1:18-20 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Why, blood? Why before the foundation of the world, before Adam was created in the image of his creator, would redemption by through blood?
Was it because that which would be created flesh, with it's very being in the blood thereof, after being given the spiritual law, thou shall not eat, was sold under sin?
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. Rom 7:12,14
Lev 17:11 For the life (Soul, living) of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Had God already foreordained to buy him back through the Son of the living God, born of woman?
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; Rom 6:20
Was Adam the pinnacle of God's creation subjected to futility, not willingly but because of Him who subjected, in hope;
Was the hope, the, learned, obedience unto death even the death of the cross of the Son of God born of woman?
Heb 5:7,8 YLT who in the days of his flesh both prayers and supplications unto Him who was able to save him from death -- with strong crying and tears -- having offered up, and having been heard in respect to that which he feared, through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, Phil 2:8 KJV And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Learning and being obedient unto death, shedding his blood was, the hope. Was, the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith. Obedience of Faith.
re-deem or to buy back seems to mean a previous possession or relationship
I do not know what you are trying to say.
Col 1:19
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
What things in Heaven are reconciled by the cross?
I do not know what you are trying to say.
Col 1:19
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
What things in Heaven are reconciled by the cross?
You accused him of teaching that Jesus was "human" but not human (a reworking of a 5th century heresy).
Scripture teaches that Jesus had a human nature like we have a human nature. Unlike us, however, Jesus did not sin.
Scripture does not teach that Jesus could not suffer sickness, or that had he not been killed would have lived forever on this earth. Instead Scripture presents Jesus as one of us in his humanity. He shared in our infirmity, suffered under the fallenness of this world, aged, etc. just like us. But in all of this Jesus never sinned.
We're told straight out that all things were created by Christ and for Him. If not for His glory, then what?
But this earth was the stage for the work that glorified the Son, by which He earned a Name above all Names, and by which He merited His role in Heaven. And it's at the end of this earth (not another) where time ends, when the skies are folded up and put away, and Death and Hell are defeated. He was the lamb slain before the foundation of the earth. Redemption was always the plan. It was not a plan B. There is no plan B.
So, yes, the Fall was part of the plan. Though God is not the author of evil, evil served His purposes.
Questions? ?
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. From 1 John 3:8
Do you think or believe the devil sinned before the creation of Adam? Gen 1:26,27
---------------------------------"--------------------------- And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Gen 1:16-19
Do you think or believe the sin of the devil was relative to lust and or to covet?
Do you think or believe that when the devil sinned the following was true, that he had the power of death? Heb 2:14 Seeing, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --
Did the sin of the devil result in the devil having the power of death?
James 1:14,15 But every man (one) is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
What was God going to do about the sin of the devil and his works?
Did it involve the manner and or nature in which he would create man?
BTW I an not trying to stir up things. I believe the word of God shows us what God was and is doing. He is not through with the devil and his power.
The last enemy is death. Then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
O Death where thy sting
O Hades where thy victory
The Devil was a sinner before the creation of the heavens (meaning skies) and the earth. It almost sounds like you think the passage you quoted is about the creation of angels. It isn't. It's about the sun, moon and stars.
No, I believe it was pride.
I don't know, and it's not important. As far as man is concerned, Adam ushered in death and hell, and now Jesus has the keys to death and hell.
Again, as far as man is concerned, Adam's sin was the gate. What gives the Devil his power is man's fear of death. I'm not saying that in nature he is not more powerful than any man, as any angel is more powerful than any man. But his power to oppress is by man's fear of death.
Destroy them both in Hell.
No.
The sin already happened before creation of the physical world.. Humanity is necessary for the cure. We share the death of Christ only by being Human.
Was the sin of man and the death, that sin brought forth, absolutely necessary for the destruction of the devil and his works?
From Hebrews 2:14 that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Was that not going to be the case, the truth, even before the foundation of the world?
Otherwise, why would God foreordain, before the foundation of the world, that the sinless Christ would shed his precious blood, because of that sin and death?
If Adam had not sinned, would the obedience of one, by which many would be made righteous, have come through Adam?
Was that the plan of God but Adam fell, relative to that plan?
I believe the creation, that which was stated as being very good, and included Adam, was subjected to futility, Rom 8:20 for a purpose.
ALL of us who were physically born after the fall inherited a sin nature from father Adam , but jesus did not, due to His Virgin Birth. I could list Theologians since the time of the scriptures forward who would agree with me that Jesus was really fully human, but that he did not have the sin nature common to all of us. Were they all wrong also?
IF Jesus had been born of the exact same flesh as we were in, the sin natured one, would he not be corrupted also?
Adam sinned and fell before there was an earth?
- Status