skypair said:
What has the "doctrines of grace" done with "WHOSOEVER believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life?" Is "whosoever" just a "throwaway word?"
The word
whosoever means nothing apart from the attached action. It is
whosoever believeth, or in the Greek πας ο πιστευων ("all the believers"). God loved the world so that
all the believers into Him would have everlasting life. The same Jesus who said this is the same Jesus who said the following:
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
This sounds rather similar to John 3:16, doesn't it? Now, what else does Jesus say in this passage?
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
No one can come unless he is given the ability (or desire) to come. Now, what is characteristic of those that do come?
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
They are drawn by the Father. Do all those who are drawn by the Father in this definition come, or are those who come merely a
subset of those who are drawn? Well, the antecedent of the the
him that is raised up at the last day is the
him who is drawn by the Father. Therefore, all who are drawn by the Father in this definition come to the Son.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
All that the Father gives to the Son
shall come;
then, all those who do come will not be cast out. The terms for the Father
drawing and the Father
giving to the Son are synonomous in reference to the set of their object. All who are drawn by the Father and given to the Son will come to the Son.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Those who are referenced in 40 are said to be raised at the last day. They see the Son and believe on Him. Those who are referenced as will be "raised up at the last day" must be all the same people; therefore, all the statements made about the ones "raised up at the last day" must all be characteristic of those who see the Son and believe. The ones who ultimately see the Son and believe are drawn by the Father, given to the Son, and will never be cast out.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of [or, from] God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of [or, from] the Father, cometh unto me.
The source of the knowledge and faith of the Gospel comes from the Father. All who will be "raised up at the last day" are drawn by the Father, taught the Gospel, given to the Son, they see and believe, and will never be cast out.
John 6 is shockingly clear that
the reason that anyone believes the Gospel is because of an effectual work of God on his part and within him to make it happen. The ones who see the Son, believe, and will be raised up at the last day are the same ones who, of themselves,
cannot come unless the Father draws them (an effectual act of God), teaches them His truth (an effectual act of God), and gives them to the Son (an effectual act of God). Their seeing and believing the Son, and coming to Him are just as much effectual works of God as are His drawing, teaching giving, securing, and raising. Salvation from start to finish is an effectual act of God. God gets all the glory! Not most of it, but ALL of it!
skypair said:
If regeneration precedes faith, then what happened to "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and [then] ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
What about "Be ye perfect as I the Lord am perfect"? Just because God commands something does not mean that it is easy or possible for one to do it. Also, one is not
indwelt by the Holy Spirit until he exercises the gift of faith in the Gospel.
Eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened [made alive],
who were dead in trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and
were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4
But God, who is rich in mercy, for
his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath
raised us up together, and
made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and
that [the whole phrase]
not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
This all sounds like an effectual work of God on the part of certain people. "Regeneration precede faith" is not a
chronological statement; it is a cause-effect statement. I believe that regeneration and faith are chronologically simultaneous, but regeneration is the cause and faith is the effect--like pulling a trigger on a gun is a cause and a bullet firing is the effect.
Phi 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phi 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, [i.e.] to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
We cannot claim any credit for the ultimate fact that we are saved. Our faith, our justification, our sanctification, our glorification--ALL of it comes from God. God and God alone gets all the glory for anything that has to do with our pleasing Him.
