what happens if you die while you're sinning? Pt. 2

[J. Jump]

Clearly, this passage tells us, names of sins, which individual committed, shall not have eternal life.

No what it shows us is that you clearly don't know what you are talking about, because the verse says it and you highlighted it for us and it doesn't say eternal life it says inheriting the kingdom of God.

Inheriting, which has clearly been explained to you by two different people now, has nothing to do with eternal life.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

J.J.,

You say:

And unfortunatley for Brother Bob, DeafPostTrib and several others you are relying on man's translation of God's Words instead of what God actually said

Oh really?

English Bible is good enough for me to understand in my foreign language.

By the way, I am NOT a KJV Onlyism. I do not consider KJV is 100% perfect without error according as what many IFBs claim.

We all know that KJV translated come from Textus Receptus(most KJV Onlyists believe that it comes from TR), or comes from LXX? (Latin).

Good enough for me to understand KJV in own language. Not only KJV, also, many versions such as NIV, NKJV, RSV, etc. telling the same doctrines as what KJV saying. There is no difference between them and KJV.

You can go ahead telling us the definition of Greek word of 'eternal' to us, if you want to. But, we should listen what a young man actual asked a question to Christ about his concerning of future own destiny, not a temporary. Listen what a young man actual saying instead read any commentatories intepreting man's question.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

J.J.,

Care to explaining us of John 3:3 says, "...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man BE BORN AGAIN, he CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD." ?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[J. Jump]

DeafPostTrib you are obviously not paying attention and reading what I'm saying. Yes we should pay attention to what was asked. That's my WHOLE point.

He didn't ask about eternal life. That's what the translators are telling you he asked about not what God actually said.

God actually said he asked about aionios life. That word does not mean eternal.

But you keep being deceived by man if you want to be. There's nothing that I can do about that.

 

[J. Jump]

Yes it says that unless you are born from above you can not see the kingdom. That one is pretty simple.

The kingdom does not equate to eternity. The kingdom is the 1,000-year reign of Christ.

 

[D28guy]

BrotherBob,

"Do any of you commit adultery?"

("But I say to you, whoever LOOKS AT...")

Am I guilty of adultery? Yes...just like you.

"Do any of you murder?"

("But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother...")

Am I guilty of murder? Yes. Just like you.

"Do any of you worship idol Gods"

Do I bow before idols of Buddha, or Mary? No. Am I a part of a non-christian religion? No.

But am I guilty of idolatry? Yes, sometimes. Just like you.

"Do any of you lie?"

Do I sometimes fudge the truth in order to not insult, or not always tell the whole truth? Yes. Just like you.

"Do any of you covet your neighbor's wife"

(Its not just my neihbors wife, its also anything else that belongs to my neihbor)

Yes. Just like you.

And thats why...after the Law fullfilled its purpose in my life...I cried out to God for mercy and embraced Christ through faith alone.

And thats why...now freed completly and permanently from the Law and its condemnation, I "walk in the newness of the Spirit, and not the oldness of the letter", because "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"

Now...the very type of attitudes and behavior that the Law speaks of have become a natural part of my lifestyle and thinking. But without the condemnation of the Law, and without me surely turning into the legalist and hypocrit that I would surely become if I were to be pretending that I am keeping Gods Law, and were pretending that my "goodness" is contributing to my staying saved.

My complete eternal security is based on the fact that "the beloved is mine, and I am His", and Christ as indwelt me by His Holy Spirit...

"He who establishes us with you in Christ, who has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our heart as a guarentee."

God bless,

Mike

 

[J. Jump]

No what it shows us is that you clearly don't know what you are talking about

DeafPostTrib I ask for your forgiveness and offer my appology for this remark. That was rude, uncalled for and inconsiderate.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

So, Jump...

We are not going to live for all eternity in Christ Jesus? Somehow, those who have placed their faith in Him will die away completely and never have the life He promised them anymore?

 

[J. Jump]

Nope not at all. Our eternal destiny is secure and we will spend eternity in the presence of God. Your spirit has been made alive which is a process that can never be reversed. Once we reach eternity we will be given back the tree of life.

But the mistake that folks make is that they think after this life eternity begins, failing to see the 1,000-year period that is another age. It is the age to come which is spoken of or sometimes translated world to come. Once that is over eternity begins.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I believe I have eternal life now. The Bible says He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son hath not life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

We also have to look at the scripture in John 11 where Jesus told Lazarus' grieving sisters, He that liveth and abideth in me shall never die.

Our eternal life begins at the time of our conversion.

Yes, we will go through the 1,000 year millenial reign, but that does not mean we did not have eternal life before then.

 

[J. Jump]

I would agree with that in regard to your spirit, because it is your spirit that is saved at the point of salvation by grace through faith.

 

[D28guy]

Standing Firm,

"I believe I have eternal life now."

I have eternal life now as well. I remember the exact moment in February of 1982 that my eternal life began.

And thank God its not up to us to keep it.

The truth is that God...keeps...us...rather than the other way around.

Blessings,

Mike

 

[DeafPosttrib]

J.J.,

You say to me,

Absolutely, it was the Jews only.

The passage of Matthew 19:16-30 seems clearly speak apply to Jews. Actually, this is general for every individual either Jew or Gentile(clear in Matt. 19:26, & 29-30 are speak toward us as individual). The context of Matt. 19:16-30 in Christ's mind, this is apply to us, that we must forsaken things, and take the cross and follow Him.

You say,

Christ said He came to seek and to save the lost sheep of the House of Israel. At another point He says 'I came to the Jews only.'

You are partially correct, in Romans 1:16 tells us, the gospel was given to Jews first, then to Gentiles.

Christ told to the Pharisees that, the kingdom is removed from them, and given it to another nation. He means that Hardened Jews are being removed, and given the kingdom to other nation, which speak of Gentiles nations. Romans chapter 11 explains clear about the Olive Tree, God removed Jews from the tree, because of their unbelief, BUT, remain believing Jews are still on tree, God just added Gentiles unto the tree join with Jews, SO, all Israel shall be saved fulfilled at Calvary.

This seems off the track.

But, you told me in the first place, that passage of Matt. 19:16-30 was given message apply to Jews. Not always. It also apply to any individual either Jew or Gentile.

You say:

He came to the Jews only because they were the ones that were in a spiritual condition to entertain the message that was being delivered

.

The Bible doesn't teaching different plans of salvation. It teaches us, there is only one plan of salvation base upon the FAITH only.

You mentioned about faith.

I suggest you to read and study the book of James talk about faith & work. If have faith, but no work, is it alive? Obivously, no, it is dead. It is speak of spiritually death. It teaches our works must go with FAITH same time.

You notice Hebrews chapter 11 mentioned about the hall of faith of the Old Testament saints were saved by faith through their ACTION. That is part of their works.

Understand our good works cannot saved us. Only through the faith. If suppose do good works, but no faith, then it is worthless. Both must be merge together same time.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[gekko]

J.Jump said "Therefore if I take a letter in Spanish written by Joe Blow, and I translate it into English so my wife can read it she's not going to be reading Joe Blow's words any more she's going to be reading my translation of Joe Blow's words."

oh my. well i guess we'd all better become monks and learn fluent greek and hebrew and aramaic to understand what the bible is really saying... yeesh.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

J.J.,

You say,

The kingdom does not equate to eternity. The Kingdom is the 1,000-year reign of Christ

Oh really?

Does Christ actual saying 'kingdom of God' of John 3:3 is a temporary??

Does Christ actual saying 'kingdom of God is 'a thousand years'??

Suppose, you believe 'kingdom of God/heaven is a temporary. If so.

Then, telling me, is God a temporarily person?

Is heaven is a temporarily place?

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by D28guy:
BrotherBob,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"Do any of you commit adultery?"

("But I say to you, whoever LOOKS AT...")

Am I guilty of adultery? Yes...just like you.

"Do any of you murder?"

("But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother...")

Am I guilty of murder? Yes. Just like you.

"Do any of you worship idol Gods"

Do I bow before idols of Buddha, or Mary? No. Am I a part of a non-christian religion? No.

But am I guilty of idolatry? Yes, sometimes. Just like you.

"Do any of you lie?"

Do I sometimes fudge the truth in order to not insult, or not always tell the whole truth? Yes. Just like you.

"Do any of you covet your neighbor's wife"

(Its not just my neihbors wife, its also anything else that belongs to my neihbor)

Yes. Just like you.

And thats why...after the Law fullfilled its purpose in my life...I cried out to God for mercy and embraced Christ through faith alone.

And thats why...now freed completly and permanently from the Law and its condemnation, I "walk in the newness of the Spirit, and not the oldness of the letter", because "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life"

Now...the very type of attitudes and behavior that the Law speaks of have become a natural part of my lifestyle and thinking. But without the condemnation of the Law, and without me surely turning into the legalist and hypocrit that I would surely become if I were to be pretending that I am keeping Gods Law, and were pretending that my "goodness" is contributing to my staying saved.

My complete eternal security is based on the fact that "the beloved is mine, and I am His", and Christ as indwelt me by His Holy Spirit...

"He who establishes us with you in Christ, who has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our heart as a guarentee."

God bless,

Mike </font>[/QUOTE]and what exactly does walking in this newness of spirit and not oldness of the letter involve???

do you now commit adultery, steal, murder, worship idols?

explain

 

[Brother Bob]

D28;
Quit adding me. You have not right to do that. Who are you that would judge another man's servant. I am judged of God only. "just like you" is words of yours that are untruths for you know not me nor my life so stick to your own life and leave mine alone.

You answered "Yes" to all the sins and I do hope you knew I meant were you committing those after being saved for if the answer is still "Yes" ..............

BBob

 

[Brother Bob]

D28; The truth is that God...keeps...us...rather than the other way around

So, I am glad to hear you say that God keeps us and I want to assure you that God is strong enough to keep the Commandments.

 

[J. Jump]

The passage of Matthew 19:16-30 seems clearly speak apply to Jews. Actually, this is general for every individual either Jew or Gentile(clear in Matt. 19:26, & 29-30 are speak toward us as individual). The context of Matt. 19:16-30 in Christ's mind, this is apply to us, that we must forsaken things, and take the cross and follow Him.

Again you are incorrect in that this applies to everyone saved and unsaved alike. You are correct in that this passage applies to us today, but only if we are saved.

Why does it only apply to us if we are saved, because there is a spiritual principal there and if we are spiritually dead we can't understand it. And we aren't spiritually alive unless we have been saved by grace through faith, so therefore this text is clearly not for unsaved folks.

You are partially correct, in Romans 1:16 tells us, the gospel was given to Jews first, then to Gentiles.

Nope. Either Jesus said it or He didn't. Here's the quote:

Matthew 15:24 - But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

That's what Jesus said and so I'm pretty sure that's what He meant. If He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel that means that His message was only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Now where your verse in Romans comes into play is that the offer of the kingdom was taken away from the nation of Israel and then it was reoffered to the nation after Christ's death. But at Christ's death the church was no in the picture, but the offer of the kingdom was to the Jew first and then the Gentile, because the original message was to the Jew. If the Jew didn't accept the message then the offer could be given to the Gentiles.

But the message that was being offered was the message of the kingdom not the message of salvation by grace through faith.

That's why Paul after his conversion (not his salvation) on the road to Damascus could go into the synagogues to preach Jesus as the Christ. He preached Jesus as not the Savior (although He was/is) he preached Him as King. He could do that because he didn't need any more information than what he had learned all his life.

But when it came to the Gentiles he needed to be taken out and taught the mystery. The mystery of how the Gentiles were going to be grafted into this offer.

Well the Gentiles were spiritually dead and so they must first be made alive spiritually. How does that happen, by salvation by grace through faith.

Once that has been done then and only then could Paul offer them the message of the kingdom. Because the kingdom is spiritual in nature and spiritually dead men can't understand that message.

Once again if we would keep the message of the kingdom separate from the message of salvation by grace through faith the Bible would make a lot more sense.

The Bible doesn't teaching different plans of salvation. It teaches us, there is only one plan of salvation base upon the FAITH only.

Absolutely. Amen! If you read into my posts that I was saying there were two ways of salvation you misread my post. Spiritual (eternal) salvation only comes by grace through faith. It doesn't matter who you are or what time you lived.

But what is faith? Faith is believing what God has said about a matter. Abraham was saved because he believed God when God said look at the stars and your decendants will be more than the stars, etc. That's when his eternal destiny was secured.

Now for the nation of Israel what had God told them? Slay the animals and when I see the blood I will passover you. Israel continued to slay the animals (pointing to Christ's ultimate sacrifice) and God saw the nation of Israel through the blood. They were saved (spiritually alive).

Today after the point of Christ's death God no longer looks at the blood of animals and we must appropriate the blood of Christ, which is what is done for us now by grace through faith. We have faith in what God has now revealed to us.

It's all by grace through faith.

I suggest you to read and study the book of James talk about faith & work.

I've read the book of James and know full well that it talks about faith and works. But again Scripture can not contradict Scripture so Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that salvation does not come by works it comes by faith. So we know right off the bat that the context of the book of James is not spiritual salvation.

And James actually tells us in the first chapter, verse 21 I believe, that the book is about the salvation of the soul.

Again two different messages that need to be kept separate.

You notice Hebrews chapter 11 mentioned about the hall of faith of the Old Testament saints were saved by faith through their ACTION. That is part of their works.

If their eternal salvation is based on their works then we have another violation of perfect Scripture, because that directly contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9. So again the context of Hebrews tells us that it is not talking about eternal salvation.

Understand our good works cannot saved us. Only through the faith.

Now you are contradicting yourself. You just got through saying that all the people in Hebrews Chapter 11 were saved by their faith through action.

Either we are saved by grace through faith apart from works or we are not. You can't have it both ways. The Bible says it is apart from works, so that's what I'll believe.

 

[J. Jump]

Who are you that would judge another man's servant.

Brother Bob you are doing the exact same thing when you say that someone that does not keep the law is unsaved. Who are you to judge?