What happens if you die while you're sinning?

[Brother Bob]

So, no matter what you do, if you a Christian you will go to Heaven. Well I say such a one is not a Christian no matter who says he is, the Pastor, the congregation, himself. If he kills a bunch of people and has a sound mind, commits adultery, kills, steals, lies, defiles the temple of God then he is not a Christian and never has been and unless he repents he will split hell wide open!!!!!

xd; I would have to lust after her for it to be adultery and I don't do that as Jimmy Carter does. I turn my head and move on.

 

[xdisciplex]

Bob, I think we are talking about short circuit reactions. Do you not think a real christian could be tempted and fall to the sin of adultery? How many people are simply overcome by their fleshly desires and do think which destroy their whole life? Why should this not be able to happen to a christian?
And why should a christian who has a really bad day who totally loses it and freaks out not be able to kill a person in a short circuit reaction? This is totally different to a planned murder.

So you think it's only adultery when you really engage in lusting after a woman? But what does this mean? Do you think seeing a woman and then getting a lustful thought is not yet adultery and it only becomes adultery when you go on lusting and entertain this thought?

 

[Brother Bob]

xd; You do know that the Holy Spirit dwells in a Christian don't you. I agree a Christian has a full time job living a Christian life before his children, wife and neighbors, but the Lord said "my Grace is suffecient to keep thee" and I trust Him to do so. No, I do not do those thing you speak of. If I see a pretty woman, I might think she is pretty but do I then turn it into lust, not on your life.
The Christian who as you say, goes insane then I leave that up to God he is the ultimate judge.

I tell you something, the drunks in town will tell you what you are suggesting is not a Christian. Do I have to come to church to find someone who says an adultereous is a Christian. I just don't understand it and it really bothers me that we don't take better care of God's house. Also, if a person commits adultery and you keep him in the church you are doing that person wrong for the blind will lead the blind and both will fall in the ditch, but if you turn him out where he was all along then just maybe you made him realize he needs to really repent and come to the church in the right way and not the wrong way.

 

[Claudia_T]

I agree with Bro Bob

I Corinthians 5:
1: It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you , and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2: And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3: For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4: In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5: To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[J. Jump]

When all this time I thought the "bride" was without spot or blemish.

Well it seems that you think the "entire" church makes up the bride and that is not so. Only part of the church will make up the bride not all of it.

So, no matter what you do, if you a Christian you will go to Heaven.

Well Bro. Bob that's what the Bible says. Eternal salvation is based upon faith, not works.

Well I say such a one is not a Christian no matter who says he is, the Pastor, the congregation, himself.

Well here's the problem...we aren't to go on what Bro. Bob says, or what JJump says or what Joe Blow says. We are to go on what the Bible says. And the Bible says that anyone who places their faith in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus is saved. Period. End of conversation.

What that person does after salvation has NOTHING to do with their eternal state. That has already been taken care of. However, their post-salvation actions do determine whether they are rewarded or whether they lose during the coming kingdom.

 

[Claudia_T]

absolutely false doctrine

 

[J. Jump]

Claudia do you care to explain what is false doctrine?

 

[Claudia_T]

"What that person does after salvation has NOTHING to do with their eternal state."

That is false doctrine

There are so many Bible verses that contradict that thought that I wouldnt even know where to start.

 

[J. Jump]

Well Claudia you better go back and get a better understanding, because plain teaching can be found in Ephesians 2:8-9. Salvation by grace through faith is not of works. There really is nothing to discuss.

Works can in NO way enter into the mix of grace through faith, because if works enter at ALL grace is no longer grace, but payment for works rendered, meaning that it is deserved.

Salvation by grace through faith is undeserved meaning that you do nothing to get it and you do nothing to keep it.

So I would hardly call salvation by grace through faith not of works a false doctrine.

Out of curiosity how do you dance around Ephesians 2:8-9 where works are so clearly taken out of the equation?

 

[Claudia_T]

1Jn:2:4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments , IS A LIAR, and the truth is not in him.

Rv:21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[J. Jump]

I John was written to believers not unbelievers. And if a believer is walking by the flesh and not by the Spirit, which means he isn't keeping the commandments he is a liar and the truth is not in him.

Notice it doesn't say he is an unsaved person and The Truth is not in him. Being a liar and being an unsaved person is two totally different things. Paul even reprimands the Corinthians for being liars.

Next verse?

And by the way you haven't touched on Ephesians 2:8-9. Going to be awfully hard to put works into salvation when it is so clear that it doesn't have anything to do with it.

 

[Claudia_T]

...that says it all

 

[Claudia_T]

it doesnt matter what I say, you will come up with this claiming its for this group and not for that group, etc... so why waste my time?

 

[J. Jump]

Here's what I don't understand. Salvation by grace through faith is the simplest message around. It's so simple that even a child can understand it, yet most of Christendom thinks the entire NT deals with salvation by grace through faith.

If this is such a simple message that even a child can understand it why do we need 27 books of the Bible to talk to us about a message that can be explained in one sentence?

The answer is it doesn't. Very little of the NT deals with salvation by grace through faith, becuase it is such a simple message. The vast majority of the NT is for believers after they have been made alive spiritually.

By the way you still have answered the question about Ephesians chapter 2. If works are included in salvation by grace through faith (becuase that's what eternal salvation is called) then why does Ephesians tell us differently?

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
What about this Scripture do you follow it or just skip it? You do err calling him a believer. They that commit such acts are not righteous.

1 Corinthians, chapter 5
11": But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

You know a tree by the fruit it bears and to say that someone committing adultery is a righteous is blasphemy.

It goes along with this Scripture:

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Have you never lied since you have been saved? If you deny it you have just lied again.
"Let God be true but every man a liar" (Rom.3:4)

God does not differentiate between sin. Every sin is just as bad as the other. Sin is a transgression of God's law. The transgression of one sin, any sin is enough to keep one out of heaven. That is why Jesus had to die for all of our sins, not just the "mortal" ones. You sound like a Catholic. A lie will keep you out of heaven just as much as adultery will. You will suffer as much for a lie as you will for adultery. You are being hypocritical.
DHK

 

[Claudia_T]

Nooooooooooooooooooooo

What you are really saying then is that a Christian can KEEP walking in the flesh and not in the Spirit and not be under condemnation. But thats not what the Bible says.


Galatians 5:
16: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17: For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18: But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20: Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21: Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings,,
and such like: of the which I tell you before, as
I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.



Romans 8:
1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


There is just no way to spin that whole thing and make it end up saying that we can continue walking in the ways of the flesh and still count ourselves as one of "Christ's"

 

[Hope of Glory]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
Here's what I don't understand. Salvation by grace through faith is the simplest message around. It's so simple that even a child can understand it, yet most of Christendom thinks the entire NT deals with salvation by grace through faith.

If this is such a simple message that even a child can understand it why do we need 27 books of the Bible to talk to us about a message that can be explained in one sentence?

I used this as an object lesson one time. I said, "If all the Bible talks about is salvation, then all we need is this one book." At which point I ripped out the book of Acts. Then, "In fact, all we need is this one page." I ripped out the page with Acts 16 on it. "In fact, all we really need are these two verses", and I ripped out verse 30-31.

No, the vast majority of the NT tells us how to live, and it has to with our lives after we are saved.

The Bible clearly states that our spiritual salvation can never be lost, nor can it be forfeited, but we are held to a very high accountability.

If you distinguish between spiritual salvation and the salvation of the soul, most Scriptures become amazingly simple and clear. To help with this, look at individual passages/books, and see to whom they are written.

But, J. Jump has already pointed this out.

 

[Claudia_T]

well I believe that, you have to rip out the rest of the entire Bible

 

[D28guy]

Brother Bob,

"1 Corinthians, chapter 5
11": But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat."

This, and other passages, are talking about extreme cases, Bob.

Sex with your own mother.(the man at Corinth)

The flaunting arrogance of some who have the attitude "Lets sin more, so that grace may abound more!", etc.

These passages of scripture are not speaking of the normal sin problems that born again people sometimes struggle with. Like adultery. Born again people struggling with sins like this dont arrogantly flaunt these things, and they arent having sex with their own mother.

By the way, do you ever have a lustful thought? Or inordinate anger?

If so Jesus said that you are guilty of both adultery and murder.

Why is your church not casting you out?

God bless,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

Claudia,

"16: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."

But you guys are missing the most important part.

"...Walk in the Spirit,..."

You guys are missing that. Part of walking in the Spirit means undertanding our complete security as born again people, and that we are free from the Law, and now are to walk "in the newness of the Spirit, and not the oldness of the letter"

You guys are saying we shouldnt commit sin because THE LAW COMMANDS YOU NOT TO DO IT, and YOU WILL BURN IN HELL IF YOU DO!

That is LAW KEEPING, and we are freed from that.

You are preaching that we are to... "Walk in the oldness of the letter, and not the newness of the Spirit".

Grace and peace,

Mike