What happens if you die while you're sinning?

[D28guy]

Claudia,

"MIke,


Here again, like I said in my last post, perhaps maybe I am misunderstanding this entire conversation? I THOUGHT we were talking about UNREPENTENT SINNERS."

We are talking about both. Both situations have been brought up multiple times...christians sinning and non-christians sinning.

God bless,

Mike

 

[gekko]

hope of glory - i've already explained myself on that point.

so read before you post - thank you.

 

[D28guy]

Claudia,

"Im not any longer under condemnation of the Law... WHY? because Im keeping it now!!!"

Perfectly? Every jot and tittle? You never sin anymore, in deed, word, or thought? You have completly, and thoroughly stopped your sinning?

For as many as of the works of the law are under the curse,, for it is written 'Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things wich are written in the book of the Law, to do them'."

(and of course Christ clearly proclaimed that the "all things" include sinning in our heart.)

And continueing...

"But that no one is justified by the Law is evident, for 'the just shall live by faith'." Yet the Law is not of faith.

Again, the complete contrast is made.

Law vs Faith

They are contrasted in such a way that it can not be both.

We have a choice to make. Either Law...which Christ referred to as a curse. Of grace/faith...which is the scripturally identified means of being justified in Gods eyes.

Permanently.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

[Claudia_T]

Oh my,.... So many errors, so little time.

 

[gekko]

curse of the law = death

why is that? because we cannot be saved by the law. that is why if we just try follow the law - death will come.

that is the curse of the law.

remember what paul said "the law is spiritual"

 

[Brother Bob]

It means to break the Law brings death.

 

[gekko]

yeah -

there's only two ways to be saved:

ONE: follow all the law - without imperfection.
TWO: accept Christ who will help us follow the law.

how's that? (oh no. J.Jump's gonna go off sayin there's two different salvations or what have you...)

 

[J. Jump]

Gekko if you don't want to understand the true teaching of Scripture that is on you. If you are talking about eternal salvation by grace through faith there is only one way to be saved and that is by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross of Calvary and His substitutionary death.

If you are preaching anything other than that for eternal salvation you are preaching a different gospel message. Works play ZERO part in eternal salvation. ZERO. I fail to understand why that is so hard to grasp for some folks when it is so plainly laid out in black and white in Ephesians chapter 2.

But so be it.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Originally posted by gekko:
hope of glory - i've already explained myself on that point.

so read before you post - thank you.

I read exactly what you explained. It's just like when I ask my 14 year-old something, he gives an explanation, then follows it with a "but..."

Claudia, if you're explaining that you are sinless, don't forget the sins of omission.

Also, although we're not under the law, neither are we above it. Someone who is actively living a life of lawlessness can still be saved, but he cannot live by faith.

A drunk or someone shacking up can still be saved, but don't tell me they're living a faithful life!

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:
Amen James_Newman;
Amen Bob;

DHK; If you were right all God would do when He comes back is scoop up the world and go home. You are advocating get yourself saved and then go out and kill who you want, lie all you want, commit adultery with everyone you can. That is heresy if I ever heard it in my life.

I did not say that. Why are you putting words in my mouth. By the sounds of it here is what I conclude are your beliefs:

1. That the blood of Christ was not sufficient to pay for our sins; therefore we must pay through suffering for them as well.
2. Christ did not pay the full penalty in the atonement, and therefore God the Father was not satisfied with the sacrifice of Christ.
3. Christ lied when he said "I give unto you eternal life."
4. You have no comprehension of Eph.2:8,9 or think that it should be erased from our Bibles.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

5. Your salvation is based on works and not by grace through faith.
6. You don't believe (John 19:30) that when Jesus cried out "It is finished," that he really meant it. (You must have your part in salvation also).

And I could go on. Now who has the "terrible doctrine?"
DHK

 

[Claudia_T]

I have never even remotely hinted that I thought I was sinless LOL! wow I must need better communication skills!

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by J. Jump:
Gekko if you don't want to understand the true teaching of Scripture that is on you. If you are talking about eternal salvation by grace through faith there is only one way to be saved and that is by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross of Calvary and His substitutionary death.

If you are preaching anything other than that for eternal salvation you are preaching a different gospel message. Works play ZERO part in eternal salvation. ZERO. I fail to understand why that is so hard to grasp for some folks when it is so plainly laid out in black and white in Ephesians chapter 2.

But so be it.

I think the problem could be that you are basing your entire doctrine on Ephesians chapter 2 and not giving any of the other Bible verses their proper weight

 

[J. Jump]

Quite the contrary. Ephesians 2 and Acts 16 make perfectly clear what is and is not invovled in salvation by grace through faith. So when we look at other Scripture we must understand that they will not contradict what is said in those two Scripture passages that are extremely plain.

That's how we can know if something is talking about the salvation of the spirit (grace through faith apart from works) or if something is talking about the salvation of the soul (salvation based on obedience/works).

Ephesians 2 and Acts 16 give us context for the rest of Scripture that talks about salvation. That helps us from trying to cram the round ball into the square hole.

 

[Hope of Glory]

I think the problem could be that you are basing your entire doctrine on Ephesians chapter 2 and not giving any of the other Bible verses their proper weight

You will not find any passages of Scripture anywhere that contradicts another. And, out of every major text (and as far as I know, every manuscript), Acts 16:30-31 is consistent, except that the TR adds the word "Christ" to "Lord Jesus".

If you find something that seems to contradict, you need to look at why. Sometimes, it's easy. For example, there are over a hundred passages that reference a future and literal Kingdom, but there are 5 passages that seem to contradict it. How do those 5 passage match up with the many, many others? (Some are simple and some are difficult, but interestingly, many people try to perpetuate the fallacy of a spiritualized and mystical Kingdom that exists only in their hearts from those 5 exceptional passages.)

But, there are no contradictions!

Sometimes, it's a simply error on behalf of a scribe; other times, it's context; other times it's an intentional change; sometimes, it's just a difficult passage. (I personally think that some passages are made more difficult so that people will stop and investigate it more closely.)

 

[Claudia_T]

I see absolutely no thing in the Bible that says we are saved eternally because of the sacrifice of Christ, but then we get to go to some kingdom because of our works.

Nothing at all...


We are saved eternally because of the sacrifice of Christ. Period.

But God isnt going to allow rebellious people in Heaven even though Jesus paid for our sins and offers this free gift.

 

[gekko]

gekko said "(which i dont think is sad - i didn't mean it that way)"

did you read that hope of glory? there is no "but"
so don't go harping on me about that and equating me to a 14yr. old. got it? thank you.

"25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."

what's the above scripture mean to you when it says "this do, and thou shalt live." ?

there are two different ways to have eternal life.
1) follow all the law - perfectly.
2) follow Christ - who will help you follow the law - because the law is written on our hearts - "the law is spiritual"

where is your scripture saying that the spirit will not sin - but the flesh and the soul will?

yes i agree we can have salvation by grace through faith - because that's straight from the word.

answer me this. and clearly:

what is needed to get to heaven?

 

[gekko]

i think i might be understanding what you are getting at now J.Jump...

let me give it a try here (please dont go saying im preaching another gospel - just correct me if im wrong in what i think you're saying):

we are comprised of Body, Soul, and Spirit - Body being flesh - soul being the life God has given us - and Spirit (whether it be the Holy Spirit or an evil spirit)

now - when we believe and (romans 10) confess with our mouth that Jesus is Lord - then the Holy Spirit comes into us - changing the spirit in us from an evil one - to one that is holy. The Holy Spirit then helps our soul not to sin - it will sin if we give in to sin though. same with the flesh - the body. our spirit is then eternal - because it is the Holy Spirit. but our body is not. our soul is eternal only after repentance.

am i getting this so far? i think im getting lost here in what you say after that. please help me out... kindly, with no harsh remarks on saying i've got another gospel.


hope of glory said "A drunk or someone shacking up can still be saved, but don't tell me they're living a faithful life!"

neither will they go to heaven if they continue in that...

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Gekko: please help me out... kindly, with no harsh remarks on saying i've got another gospel.

HP: Gekko, I believe if I were you I would wear this statement as a badge of honor coming from the one making the charge.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK:Have you never lied since you have been saved? If you deny it you have just lied again.
"Let God be true but every man a liar" (Rom.3:4)

HP:I asked you this several posts ago, but on the chance you missed it I thought I would ask it again.
Lets take a man at the alter that has just got serious with God and has repented of all sins that are past and accepted the atonement of Christ by faith to cover those sins. If you asked him that question as he stood up from the alter, and he told you his heart was white as snow, would you call him a liar as well?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Gekko, That was a nice list of Scriptures on repentance. Did you mention the following? If so, forgive me for adding them.
Lu 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Lu 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

HP