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What happens to babies when they die?
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
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2 Samuel 12:22-23
He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, ‘Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.”
He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, ‘Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.”
Other than David's comment about his son, there is no definitive comment about infants and what happens after their body dies.
Does God extend grace to infants who are born corrupt with a sin nature?
Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.[/I]
Does God extend grace to infants who are born corrupt with a sin nature?
Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.[/I]
PeacefulLove
New Member
I think we have to understand that God is sovereign and his grace and mercy are perfect. I think this is one of those situations where we have to let God be God and not try to put our words into His mouth.
Agreed. We fall on the mercy and grace of God. We read David's words and draw hope that God extends grace to the unborn and infants.
We are saved by grace. We must fall upon the belief that God extends grace to the unborn, infants and person's with mental impairments. These person's cannot even express faith so we cannot demand that they must have faith to be saved. Salvation must be by grace alone. For those God chooses to have remain on earth, who have the mental capacity, he grants faith so that his saving grace can be evidenced through their faith.
PeacefulLove
New Member
I started in a Grief Share group right after my husband passed. At that point, I don't really think I was ready for it. I later found a group called Celebrate Recovery and that has seriously set me free from the grief, from depression, from those negative things. I'm happy to say I'm medication-free for the first time in years.
Genesis 18:25. Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
David had the very same understanding as that of his father Jacob.
Gen 37:35 Darby: And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted, and said, For I will go down to my son into Sheol (Greek Hades) mourning*. Thus his father wept for him
* That unto the day of his death, mouring.
2 Sam 12:23 YLT: and now, he hath died, why is this -- I fast? am I able to bring him back again? I am going unto him, and he doth not turn back unto me.'
Ps 16:10 For Thou dost not leave my soul to Sheol, - Even though being a prophet he was, here, speaking of the resurrection of Christ.
Psalms 51:5 YLT - Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother conceive me.
John 3:7 YLT - 'Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
John 3:6 YLT - that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
1 Cor 15:46,49 YLT - but that which is spiritual is not first, but that which was natural, afterwards that which is spiritual.
and, according as we did bear the image of the earthy, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly.
Matt 1:18,25 YLT -
And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit,
and did not know her till she brought forth her son -- the first-born, and he called his name Jesus.
Col 1:18 YLT
And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things -- himself -- first,
Me thinks all need to let God worry about the babies and themselves also. Let me know when you learn how to birth yourself.
The end of the whole matter let us hear: -- 'Fear God, and keep His commands, for this is the whole of man. For every work doth God bring into judgment, with every hidden thing, whether good or bad.' Ecc 12:13,14
Gen 37:35 Darby: And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted, and said, For I will go down to my son into Sheol (Greek Hades) mourning*. Thus his father wept for him
* That unto the day of his death, mouring.
2 Sam 12:23 YLT: and now, he hath died, why is this -- I fast? am I able to bring him back again? I am going unto him, and he doth not turn back unto me.'
Ps 16:10 For Thou dost not leave my soul to Sheol, - Even though being a prophet he was, here, speaking of the resurrection of Christ.
Psalms 51:5 YLT - Lo, in iniquity I have been brought forth, And in sin doth my mother conceive me.
John 3:7 YLT - 'Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;
John 3:6 YLT - that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit.
1 Cor 15:46,49 YLT - but that which is spiritual is not first, but that which was natural, afterwards that which is spiritual.
and, according as we did bear the image of the earthy, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly.
Matt 1:18,25 YLT -
And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit,
and did not know her till she brought forth her son -- the first-born, and he called his name Jesus.
Col 1:18 YLT
And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things -- himself -- first,
Me thinks all need to let God worry about the babies and themselves also. Let me know when you learn how to birth yourself.
The end of the whole matter let us hear: -- 'Fear God, and keep His commands, for this is the whole of man. For every work doth God bring into judgment, with every hidden thing, whether good or bad.' Ecc 12:13,14
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
The Bible tell us very clearly, and those who will listen, will learn, and the rest will remain in their ignorance!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Yes, God's Door, and not any human, theological concept of that!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I cannot see why anyone should have a problem in understanding 2 Samuel 12:22-23, for exactly what it very clearly says.
"He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, ‘Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.”
David was not only a King, but also a Prophet of Almighty God. His words here are directly from the Holy Spirit, and not just his own personal feelings. When David was told that his son had died, he stopped his fasting and weeping, changed his clothes, and worshipped the Lord. Those who waited on him were surprised at his actions. He sais to them the words quoted above. David make the point of saying that he will one day be joining his dead son. Some, who cannot accept what the Bible says here for "theological" reasons, wrongly suppose that David meant he would be joining his dead son "in the grave"! WHAT is the big deal about being happy for this? It can ONLY mean that he will one day be with his dead son in heaven, in the very presence of Almighty God. Nothing else is meant from these words.
I have also shown in my previous thread, that there are passages like Romans 9:11, which teach, "though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad". This is about Easu and Jacob, where Paul is talking about God's choosing Jacob above Easu. Paul here says that even before these two were "born", and had not "done" anything "good or bad", God made this choice. It is clear to those who can see what is being said here, that the Bible says, that there is a time of "innocence", in infants. This is further seen in Isaiah 7:16, "For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good". Note, BEFORE the boy KNOWS to "refuse the evil and choose the good". Which means that there is a time BEFORE he KNOWS about "good and evil". Likewise in Deuteronomy 1:39, "Moreover your little ones, that ye said should be a prey, and your children, that this day have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it". Can only mean that they are "innocent".
Verses like Psalm 58:3 are used to show that every human being is "born a sinner". This is what this verse says:
"The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies"
This cannot be taken in the literal sense, as there are no babies who from birth, "speak lies". This comes after they start to talk and understand what they are saying!
"He said, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, ‘Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?’ But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.”
David was not only a King, but also a Prophet of Almighty God. His words here are directly from the Holy Spirit, and not just his own personal feelings. When David was told that his son had died, he stopped his fasting and weeping, changed his clothes, and worshipped the Lord. Those who waited on him were surprised at his actions. He sais to them the words quoted above. David make the point of saying that he will one day be joining his dead son. Some, who cannot accept what the Bible says here for "theological" reasons, wrongly suppose that David meant he would be joining his dead son "in the grave"! WHAT is the big deal about being happy for this? It can ONLY mean that he will one day be with his dead son in heaven, in the very presence of Almighty God. Nothing else is meant from these words.
I have also shown in my previous thread, that there are passages like Romans 9:11, which teach, "though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad". This is about Easu and Jacob, where Paul is talking about God's choosing Jacob above Easu. Paul here says that even before these two were "born", and had not "done" anything "good or bad", God made this choice. It is clear to those who can see what is being said here, that the Bible says, that there is a time of "innocence", in infants. This is further seen in Isaiah 7:16, "For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good". Note, BEFORE the boy KNOWS to "refuse the evil and choose the good". Which means that there is a time BEFORE he KNOWS about "good and evil". Likewise in Deuteronomy 1:39, "Moreover your little ones, that ye said should be a prey, and your children, that this day have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it". Can only mean that they are "innocent".
Verses like Psalm 58:3 are used to show that every human being is "born a sinner". This is what this verse says:
"The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies"
This cannot be taken in the literal sense, as there are no babies who from birth, "speak lies". This comes after they start to talk and understand what they are saying!
God's Door. Christ. One only enters by grace through faith.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
God IS God, and can do as He pleases! Not bound by human "theology"!"
If you're going to preach another gospel, you're cursed. Better watch it...
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
and you are a nutter!
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
It is amazing to me the gymnastics you are willing to go through to deny the MULTIPLE Scriptures that state VERY CLEARLY that all, including infants, have sinned.
None of these speak of sinlessness of born infants. None of them.
Except it doesn't. To say that it does is dishonest.
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