What has ceased?

Posted by Tam

Good for you. This is not a church; it is a discussion board. Welcome to the foray.

If tongues is a gift for today, then so are all the restrictions that Paul placed on them on in 1Cor.14. Why do you think you can choose to obey the Bible in one place and disobey it in another? Chapter 14 clearly lays down the restrictions for speaking in tongues. Women speaking in tongues was forbidden. That was one of the restrictions. It is very clear. Take your argument up with God. What else would:
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak mean?

Secondly, concerning your question about healing, most of the Apostles, when they exercised the gift of healing, they healed all who came to them. Philip healed all that came to him in Samaria. Paul healed all that came to him:

Acts 19:11-12 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Peter healed all that came to him:
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
There is no one alive that has the gift of healing such as the apostles and early believers did. At certain points in their ministries they healed ALL that came to them. If the spiritual gifts are for today, then this would also be true of today. Why isn't it?

Again posted by Tam:

On what basis? Not on the basis of the Word of God. What you have is a cheap imitation of the real thing. You practice a phenomena that didn't start until 1901. Explain why all the believers for 1800 years before that time did without tongues. Explain why those who practice Voo-doo also speak in tongues, as well as Mormons and Hindus? This is real evidence of the Holy Spirit isn't it, when people whose religion is controlled by Satan speak in tongues. Perhaps it gives you a clue about the source of your so-called "gift."
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Music 4 Him posts:

Yes, that is a distinct possibility. And thus the restriction was put in place. But it was never lifted, and we have no right to impose on the Word of God the restrictions that God has placed there, for what ever the reason was. Just think: there is a perfect example from Scripture—women talk more than men.

I never said they were. They were commanded to be silent in the church. They were not commanded to be deaf and dumb. Good Grief!!

And your point here is??

Posted by MEE:

Yes, we have women in our church. They teach Sunday School to the children. But none speak in tongues. In fact no one speaks in tongues. Tongues has ceased. It is an unscriptural practice. The context in 1Cor.14 is speaking in tongues.

Posted by Music4Him

1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
--I don't believe in women preachers. They usurp the authority of a man. Paul says plainly I suffer (or do not allow) a woman to teach or usurp authority over a man. And that is what she would be doing in preaching, whether in the church or in an open air meeting.

Posted again by Music4Him

Can you prove all this. Not one of you have met my challenge yet. That would be the proof that the spiritual gifts have not ceased. Go to the hospitals and walk through the corridors and heal ALL that are sick. Why can none of the thousands of tongue-speakers from Pentecostals, to Charismatics, to the Third Wave, and including all the other groups that speak in tongues—none can heal all that come to them. Why? The spiritual gifts are not for today. That is why.
Sure, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. That doesn't mean that He works in the same way throughout every age. Does He speak to you in a burning bush like He did to Moses. Let me know about it when He does.

Posted by Tam:

So your view is that God doesn't mean what He says. When He says that women should be silent in the church and are commanded to be quiet. Your interpretation is: "Naw God, we know you don't mean what you say, you really mean that we just should only talk a little less than we already do." Right! You folks like to argue with God, don't you? You can't accept what He says. It really, really bothers you.

Big deal. I was in a third world country and had the opportunity of starting a number of churches. Guess what. The men sat on one side of the church, and the women sat on the other with the children. In some of the churches the children would sit by themselves in the front. There was no building. They sat on mats on the ground in an open field somewhere. They were too poor to have a church building. They never had the problem that you are describing. That wasn't it.
The issue was tongues. The context of the chapter is tongues. These ladies in 1Cor.14 thought themselves spiritual enough to stand up in the service and start speaking in tongues. That was the problem. The problem that you have today is a stubbornness not to admit that tongues is not for today. It has ceased.
DHK

 

DKH

If tongues is not ( as you claim and if anyone disagrees with you they are stubborn and are calling God a liar) for today then Why does it matter wheither it is done by a man rather than a woman?

 

My opinion doesn't matter, but what the Word of God says does. The statements made in 1Corinthians chapter 14 are very clear. If people choose to walk in disobedience to them in spite of their knowledge of what is written there, then who is being stubborn? I point out the clear teaching of God's Word and you say: "Why does it matter?" Others simply ignore it and disobey it. It does matter, because it shows that tongues is not for today, and that thousands upon thousands of people are being misled by an unscriptural doctrinal, the cause of in some cases may be demonic, but in no cases is from God.
DHK

 

My opinion doesn't matter, but what the Word of God says does. The statements made in 1Corinthians chapter 14 are very clear. If people choose to walk in disobedience to them in spite of their knowledge of what is written there, then who is being stubborn? I point out the clear teaching of God's Word and you say: "Why does it matter?" Others simply ignore it and disobey it. It does matter, because it shows that tongues is not for today, and that thousands upon thousands of people are being misled by an unscriptural doctrinal, the cause of in some cases may be demonic, but in no cases is from God.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]I do not agree with you and you can say that I'm stubborn or other ridiculous accusations.
But I would still like to know that if you were right why would it matter wheither speaking in tongues happens with the male or the female.
Since you think it is all of the devil (and that is a very serious accusation) it would not matter which gender participates.

 

DHK I said that women speaking in church hasn't ceased. I speak right before I minister in song (as did Moses sister). Hey and I do it in baptist, full gospel, non-denominational churches, so it hasn't ceased for me. I won't however interupt a church service while the message is given that is one time I will keep silent..... unless the speaker is really bringing a good message and I just can't contain myself any longer and have to add a Amen or Hallelujah.
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Well I can affirm that women speaking in church hasn't ceased either.
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On what basis? Not on the basis of the Word of God. What you have is a cheap imitation of the real thing. You practice a phenomena that didn't start until 1901. Explain why all the believers for 1800 years before that time did without tongues. Explain why those who practice Voo-doo also speak in tongues, as well as Mormons and Hindus? This is real evidence of the Holy Spirit isn't it, when people whose religion is controlled by Satan speak in tongues. Perhaps it gives you a clue about the source of your so-called "gift."

DHK, really to be honest I have no idea how they did without tongues for so long (if they did)? Did the RCC have a rule in those days? But, to say that I have a cheep imatation and that my religion is controlled by satan.... I don't think God would give me a serpent if I asked for a fish?
Luke 11:11 - 13
If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Posted again by Music4Him

quote:
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Tongues haven't ceased, nor prophcey, nor women being silent, healing is still alive and well too.
Why? Cause Jesus is the same yesterday, and to day, and forever.
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Can you prove all this. Not one of you have met my challenge yet. That would be the proof that the spiritual gifts have not ceased. Go to the hospitals and walk through the corridors and heal ALL that are sick. Why can none of the thousands of tongue-speakers from Pentecostals, to Charismatics, to the Third Wave, and including all the other groups that speak in tongues—none can heal all that come to them. Why? The spiritual gifts are not for today. That is why.
Sure, Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. That doesn't mean that He works in the same way throughout every age. Does He speak to you in a burning bush like He did to Moses. Let me know about it when He does.

DHK,
I thought you did a good job answering this? BTW, the Lord speaks to all his servants in different ways, you need to read dianeT's thread. BTW, He hasn't ceased to stop talking to us either.

Quote by DHK
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Secondly, concerning your question about healing, most of the Apostles, when they exercised the gift of healing, they healed all who came to them. Philip healed all that came to him in Samaria. Paul healed all that came to him:

Acts 19:11-12 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them.

Peter healed all that came to him:
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
There is no one alive that has the gift of healing such as the apostles and early believers did. At certain points in their ministries they healed ALL that came to them. If the spiritual gifts are for today, then this would also be true of today. Why isn't it?
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You said it....they(sick people) came/was brought to them (Apostles). What about Maria Woodsworth Etter, Rhinehert Bonkey(sp?),Amy McPherson(sp?), Smith Wigglesworth....ect?


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Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew or Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male or female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
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And your point here is??

Hummmmmmmm That we are all one in Jesus, would that make us equal? Even on the same side?

We may not see eye to eye DHK. But to judge others and to insinuate that their religion is of satan, because thier interpretation of the scriptures does not line up with yours? You come across to me like women ain't no good in the church. That they are just babymaking pew warmers that ain't smart enough to have a voice in church or in their homes and that women are to be silent servants. Sounds like bondage to me?

Music4Him

 

The issue was tongues. The context of the chapter is tongues. These ladies in 1Cor.14 thought themselves spiritual enough to stand up in the service and start speaking in tongues. That was the problem. The problem that you have today is a stubbornness not to admit that tongues is not for today. It has ceased.

Oh well then why don't you take a permenant marker and scratch out all that is not for today out of the bible. Then tell me whats left?

Tongues is for today they have not ceased. I can speak/sing some in spanish. (I could not have learned spanish if it was not for God giving me the gift to do it.) This is one way I see the gifts of tongues in use. The other is the 1 Cor. 12-14 to prophesy, to edify the church, ect. But Paul also made a note of exercising the gifts with "love". 1Cor. 13

Tongues have not ceased.

Jesus is Lord!
Music4Him

 

Your free to disagree of course. Please read carefully what I said. I said that the cause of "some" tongues may be demonic, not all. But the source is definitely not of God, so from that you can draw your own conclusions.
Why is gender important?
First recognize the purpose of tongues. We have emphasized one of the purposes quite thoroughly, and that is a sign to the unbelieving Jew--but I do not believe it is the only purpose. I believe that tongues, along with prophecy and revelatory knowledge were three specific gifts given to the church in the first century to provide knowledge to the church that they did not have and would not have until the New Testament was complete. That is what 1Cor.13:8-13 is teaching.
Verse 8 teaches that all three gifts: tongues, prophecy, and knowledge (revelatory) will cease or pass away.
Then it says that we know in part. The Corinthian church knew in part. They had part of the Bible--the Old Testament. Therefore God gave them these three gifts to endow them with the knowledge that they did not yet have but needed. The rest of the New Testament was yet to be written. Until it was they could rely on prophecy, tongues and knowledge--these three gifts. When that which is perfect (or complete) is come (i.e., the Bible), then that which is in part (the temporary gifts of the Spirit) would be done away. They would no longer be needed. And that is what happened.

Now in relation to that, we come to chapter 14, which compares tongues to prophecsy. Chapter 14 gives an emphasis on understanding all the way through. If you can't understand tongues then don't speak in tongues. In other words those speaking in tongues always had to have an interpreter so that they could be understood. Paul said that he would rather speak 5 words with understanding than 10,000 words in a tongue than no one can understand. Tongues without interpretation, without meaning, are fruitless. All of the gifts of the Spirit were for the edification of the church. There was no gift given for the edification of any one individual. God did not hand out selfish gifts--gifts to edify just one person. Tongues was never intended therefore to be used as a prayer language. It was alwayys for the edification of the church. It was always to be interpreted so that all could understand. When that happened, tongues had the same effect as prophecy or preaching. The entire congregation could understand the message and be edified.

But as we have seen in previous verses that have been posted, it is wrong for a woman to preach, teach, to have authority over a man. That is why she could not speak in tongues. Speaking in tongues was speaking in a real known language, interpreted into another real known language, for the benefit of all that were there. It is the same as preaching. We do not allow for women prechers. We would not allow for women to speak in tongues (if tongues were Biblical in the first place). It goes against what the Bible teaches not only here in 1Cor.14:34,35

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
--That is pretty plain language. I don't see how it can get much clearer.

But also in:
1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

So the Scriptures teach that a woman should not teach or preach (there is teaching in preaching) or have authority over a man (which is what a person has when they preach or teach).
DHK

 

Why would I do that? Is everything for today?

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

QUOTE]Tongues is for today they have not ceased. I can speak/sing some in spanish. (I could not have learned spanish if it was not for God giving me the gift to do it.) This is one way I see the gifts of tongues in use. The other is the 1 Cor. 12-14 to prophesy, to edify the church, ect. But Paul also made a note of exercising the gifts with "love". 1Cor. 13
Tongues have not ceased. [/QUOTE]
And I can speak in four different languages. So what! That doesn't mean I have the gift of tongues. It means I had to go to the mission field, hire a language teacher, and spend hours and hours of study learning the language. A gift of learning we all have; the gift of tongues was confined to the first century (however the way this conversation is going I think even the gift of learning is limited).
You repeat your mantra over and over and over again. "Tongues have not ceased." And yet, you cannot refute the evidence I give you; nor provide any Biblical evidence that it is still in existence for today. You have had an experience. You basically say that because you have had an experience it must be true. Your logic is just as bad as "I had a dream. In my dream the moon was made out of blue cheese. Martians had arrived and were eating it up. By the time I awoke it was half eaten." You looked out your window and only saw half the moon that day and so you know your dream is true. And to this day you argue that the moon is made of blue cheese and Martians are eating away at it. After all you experienced it; you dreamed it. It was your experience.
That is what tongues is all about--experience. I experienced it therefore it must be true. Yep! And the moon is made up of blue cheese.
DHK

 

Your free to disagree of course. Please read carefully what I said. I said that the cause of "some" tongues may be demonic, not all. But the source is definitely not of God, so from that you can draw your own conclusions.
Why is gender important?
First recognize the purpose of tongues. We have emphasized one of the purposes quite thoroughly, and that is a sign to the unbelieving Jew--but I do not believe it is the only purpose. I believe that tongues, along with prophecy and revelatory knowledge were three specific gifts given to the church in the first century to provide knowledge to the church that they did not have and would not have until the New Testament was complete. That is what 1Cor.13:8-13 is teaching.
Verse 8 teaches that all three gifts: tongues, prophecy, and knowledge (revelatory) will cease or pass away.
Then it says that we know in part. The Corinthian church knew in part. They had part of the Bible--the Old Testament. Therefore God gave them these three gifts to endow them with the knowledge that they did not yet have but needed. The rest of the New Testament was yet to be written. Until it was they could rely on prophecy, tongues and knowledge--these three gifts. When that which is perfect (or complete) is come (i.e., the Bible), then that which is in part (the temporary gifts of the Spirit) would be done away. They would no longer be needed. And that is what happened.

Now in relation to that, we come to chapter 14, which compares tongues to prophecsy. Chapter 14 gives an emphasis on understanding all the way through. If you can't understand tongues then don't speak in tongues. In other words those speaking in tongues always had to have an interpreter so that they could be understood. Paul said that he would rather speak 5 words with understanding than 10,000 words in a tongue than no one can understand. Tongues without interpretation, without meaning, are fruitless. All of the gifts of the Spirit were for the edification of the church. There was no gift given for the edification of any one individual. God did not hand out selfish gifts--gifts to edify just one person. Tongues was never intended therefore to be used as a prayer language. It was alwayys for the edification of the church. It was always to be interpreted so that all could understand. When that happened, tongues had the same effect as prophecy or preaching. The entire congregation could understand the message and be edified.

But as we have seen in previous verses that have been posted, it is wrong for a woman to preach, teach, to have authority over a man. That is why she could not speak in tongues. Speaking in tongues was speaking in a real known language, interpreted into another real known language, for the benefit of all that were there. It is the same as preaching. We do not allow for women prechers. We would not allow for women to speak in tongues (if tongues were Biblical in the first place). It goes against what the Bible teaches not only here in 1Cor.14:34,35

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
--That is pretty plain language. I don't see how it can get much clearer.

But also in:
1 Timothy 2:11-12 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

So the Scriptures teach that a woman should not teach or preach (there is teaching in preaching) or have authority over a man (which is what a person has when they preach or teach).
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]As you rant about womenand speaking in tongues,
are you saying that it is ok for "men" to speak in tongues?

 

There is a 'heavenly' language, called 'tongues'. Not all have the gift. My disagreement with the Assembly of God (among others)is their insistence that tongues is THE evidence of a person being Spirit-filled.

 

I have simply explained the Scriptures. Tongues have ceased. It's been said many times. That means that it is not ok for men or women to speak in "tongues" as you call it today.
DHK

 

I have simply explained the Scriptures. Tongues have ceased. It's been said many times. That means that it is not ok for men or women to speak in "tongues" as you call it today.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Then why have you ranted about women and used scriptures about women being silent if you believe that neither men nor women are at liberty to speak in tongues.

 

Many Charismatics and many Assembly of God Pastors would agree with you.
The Assemblies of God use the term "initial evidence" implying that there is other evidence of Jesus Baptizing a person in the Holy Spirit.
Other evidences are Power to witness, personal holiness, a stronger prayer life, and the Word of God becoming alive since the letter killeth and the spirit brings life. Also singing of Psalms, Hymns and spiritual songs making melody in ones heart.
Regardless of evidence I want to see Jesus do a work in hearts by baptizing people in the Holy spirit as John The Baptist said that Jesus would do.
God Bless you Jude!!!!

 

Jude,

So good to see someone seeing things how they really are! Refreshing!!!

Atestring,

There is also another denomination that is worse than The Assembly of God( in my opinion) and that is the United Penticostal Church.

They believe that you have to speak out loud in tongues, before you die, and be somewhere where someone can hear you,or you won't go to heaven!!

Now THAT is sad. Because the truth is, not everybody has to have the gift of tongues(which may be why you can't see it DHK) It has nothing to do with salvation, it just makes it easier to live down here on earth. Now if some want to do it the hard way, God bless your earthly journey!!

Working for Him,

Tam,

 

Thats real mature DHK....
When you attack somebodys interpretation of the bible and cannot speak to them without throwing insinuations that they are unlearned, or what they have is a cheep imatation of the real thing or that their religion is controlled by satan (when they don't agree with you) it just goes to show how little you know.
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QUOTES by DHK:
What you have is a cheap imitation of the real thing. You practice a phenomena that didn't start until 1901. Explain why all the believers for 1800 years before that time did without tongues. Explain why those who practice Voo-doo also speak in tongues, as well as Mormons and Hindus? This is real evidence of the Holy Spirit isn't it, when people whose religion is controlled by Satan speak in tongues. Perhaps it gives you a clue about the source of your so-called "gift."
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(however the way this conversation is going I think even the gift of learning is limited).
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Quote by DHK:
You repeat your mantra over and over and over again. "Tongues have not ceased." And yet, you cannot refute the evidence I give you; nor provide any Biblical evidence that it is still in existence for today.
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Yep and you can't understand tongues and their purpose that Paul wrote about (1Cor.chapters 12-14. That they haven't ceased and its no "mantra". BTW, I would not have to keep repeating it, if you would not keep repeating your "mantra" that they have ceased. So around and around we go.

1Cor.12:1-11
1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

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As for the evidence as to the second part about proof as to tongues not ceasing....
In 1 Cor.13:10, Paul said when "when that which is perfect is come"....remember Paul is speaking years after Jesus walked the earth, was crucified and resurected, then assended to sit on the right hand side of the throne and left/sent the comforter for us.
*The word to examine is the word "when". Paul knows that Jesus is comming back!

BTW, doesn't Paul say that he also speaks in tongues more the ye all? Well then if Paul recived tongues later after the day of pentecost... tongues still continue.

Heres the scripture where Paul says when that which is perfect is come. Also the only way for prophecies, tongues, and knowledge to fail/vanish away seems to be with Jesus' 2nd comming. Right now we still seem to know in part.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

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Jesus said in Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
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Hey, you can take that scripture however you wish.
But, I am not saying if you don't speak in tongues your doomed to hell.
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Music4Him

 

atestring: My position on tongues has never changed. Tongues have ceased, and they did so by the end of the first century.
1Cor.14 speaks of the conditions imposed on speaking in tongues for the believers in the first century. They don't apply to in the sense that tongues are not for today anyway.
My argument is: For those who say that tongues is Biblical and for today, then go through the fourteenth chapter of 1Corinthians, and apply the same restrictions that Paul imposed on the churches of the first century to the churches of today. If you cannot do it, then obviously you know that what you are doing is not of God. Go through the list one by one.
Do they have an interpreter at all times?
Do they have a maximum of only three people speak in tongues, and never at the same time?
Are the women always silent in respect to tongues.
Are their unbelieving Jews present when speaking in tongues?
Are the "tongues" being spoken acutal real languages, or are they mere gibberish?
Are they spoken, not only with an interpreter, but always in the church, to the congregation, for the edification of the church as a whole--never as a prayer language or singing, etc.

These are just some of the questions that arise out of the 14th chapter to guage whether or not tongues would be Biblical if they were for today. Since so many of you insist that they are for today without Biblical evidence, then here is the Bible. Match up your experience with the Word of God. Compare it. Do you speak in tongues only when all these conditions are set in place or not?
If not, then you know it is not of God.
DHK

 

And your point is? Paul lists the spiritual gifts. They were all supernatural in nature. They were all for the first century, when the Bible was not yet complete. The Bible is now complete. The spiritual gifts have ceased.

No, the word to examine is the Greek pronoun "that." "When "that" which is perfect is come" The word "that" is a neuter pronoun, having neither male or female gender, making the "perfect" to which it describes, impossible to refer to Jesus or anything else of a male gender. It is not referring to the coming of Christ. It is not referring to Christ. It is referring to the Word of God, the perfect or completed Word of God (Psalm 19:7), which was complete when John wrote the Book of Revelation. The entire context from 13:8 to the end of chapter 14 is speaking of revelation. It is speaking of the spiritual gifts in relation to the Word of God. Take things in their context.

Why would you think that? Paul went on three missionary journeys that took him all throughout Asia and Europe. He would have been in many different nations, some of which would have necessitated the gift of tongues. Even then, if the Greek language was universal, and Paul didn't need it for direct communication, it would still be for a sign to the unbelieving Jew. He lived in the first century. Tongues ceased by the end of the first century, and were beginning to fade out by 70 A.D., when Jerusalem was destroyed as a judgement of God came upon the Jews for not believing this sign to them--that the gospel was from God. It was predicted in Isaiah 28 that this would happen, and Paul reiterated it in 1Cor.14:21,22

We know everything about God that we need to know. He has given it to us in His Word. We have the perfect Word of God, and are commanded not to add to it. Those that speak in tongues are, in effect, adding to the Word of God, since it is a form of revelation. "That which is perfect" is the Word of God. It cannot refer to Christ because of the neuter pronoun involved.

For the most part these things were fulfilled in the Book of Acts, during the Apostolic period. They are not for today. We don't have snake-handling services. We do not purposely go out and tempt God.
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Perhaps you don't, and I commend you for that. But there are many that do. Someone already mentioned churches like the United Pentecostal. If you have been following this discussion with much interest, within just a couple of days I was accused of not having the Holy Spirit, not having the unction of the Spirit, to not believing (what I am not sure--implication could have been an atheist).
I have said that tongues are not of God. They have ceased, and are not of God. What is their source then? In "some" cases I have said it may be demonic. This is the third time I have said that, and you people exagerrate that statement. Most of the time tongues is an emotional fleshly experience whose origin is self seeking an experience rather than God.
DHK

 

DHK: You said:

Perhaps you don't, and I commend you for that. But there are many that do. Someone already mentioned churches like the United Pentecostal. If you have been following this discussion with much interest, within just a couple of days I was accused of not having the Holy Spirit, not having the unction of the Spirit, to not believing (what I am not sure--implication could have been an atheist).
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I did not say that you did not have the Holy Spirit!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don;t have to have tongues to have Holy Spirit!

I said that the gift of healing was by the unction of the Holy Ghost, I said nothing about YOU not having it!!
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The verse I quoted was that Jesus did not many miracles because of their unbelief. In the first place, He said that because they knew Him and couldn;t believe He could heal them. That was in NO WAY casting doubt on your salvation!!!

The only conclusion you should come to with my statement is that if all the gifts have ceased, (and you don't believe they are still in effect)
then you don't believe in the gift of healing. That in no way casts aspersions on your salvation!

Tam