What has ceased?

Did it ever happen? Of course not. He's a fraud, a false prophet.

Benny Hinn's teaching:

This is heresy; akin to what Satan told Eve. He would have us believe that we are all little gods running about this world.

People go running to Benny Hinn for the same reason they are attracted to Islam. They are deceived. (BTW Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and in North America). Both, in the religion of Benny Hinn and in Islam, the growth is great because they don't have Satan to stop them. I don't believe that Benny Hinn is a saved individual. What he does is not of God; what he believes is not of the Word of God.
DHK

 

DHK,

I think much of what you say about Pastor Hinn is hate talk. Listen to your statements about the pastor.

'Your a little Messiah! A Little god I am a little god! God Ye are gods! This is heresy; akin to what Satan told Eve. He would have us believe that we are all little gods running about this world.'

I have one better than your alleged facts. 'We are sons and daughters of the living God; do you believe Christians are in this kind of standing with the Lord? Note: I John 3:2. We don't become the sons of God only if we keep up our 'payments to the Lord.' God says right now we are His people.

You are saying, 'People go running to Benny Hinn for the same reason they are attracted to Islam. They are deceived. (BTW Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and in North America). Both, in the religion of Benny Hinn and in Islam, the growth is great because they don't have Satan to stop them. I don't believe that Benny Hinn is a saved individual. Ray is saying, 'Islam is a false World religion, while Christianity is the true faith. Pastor Hinn may not agree with everything that I believe but that does not make him a false prophet. God used a simple fisherman like Peter; I am not sure if Pastor Hinn is seminary trained, but this morning I happened to turn the T.V. dial and heard him inviting people to receive Christ as personal Savior and about being born again. This is hardly a false prophet.

You seem to slander things that you know nothing about. For example: 'falling under the power of the Holy Spirit, or as some say, being slain in the Spirit,' is of the Lord God.

Saul in Acts 9:3-4 was 'slain in the Spirit' at the point of his conversion to Christ from Judaism. When the light from Heaven, probably the eternal light of God surrounded Saul St. Luke says, 'He fell to the earth and heard a voice saying unto him Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me.'

Another example of the phenomenon is in the life of John the Revelator in Revelation 1:10-18 {note verse 17} when He heard 'the great voice as of a trumpet,' which was the voice of Almighty God. John said, 'And when I saw Him, {Christ} I fell at His feet as dead.'

I was 'slain in the Spirit' while in Bible College while in prayer with other guys in our dorm. One of the other men was Mennonite and had the gift of tongues, so he knew what was happening to me. I never spoke in tongues but God the Spirit put me down as gently as a huge soft pillow hitting me. In my case, there was an inner joy that kept flowing over me, like the Lord had poured liquid love in joy into my soul. I remember saying words of worship to the Lord and as I felt His overpowering Presence withdrawing from my body, I asked the Lord to allow this to happen again before my departure from this life. This experience has never happened again, but there were witnesses to this event.

My guess is that some other people on the board who believe in the gifts of the Spirit, perhaps like MEE, might have had similar experiences, or they at least know Christians who have experienced this phenomenon.

People who deny the workings of the Holy Spirit are not as likely to receive something new and fresh from the Lord. I call this 'dead orthodoxy.' Yes, people like this are saved if they love Jesus, but their pastors and denominational regulations forbid such a moving of the Spirit of God.

You said, 'What he does is not of God . . . '

Ray is saying, 'Don't be so dogmatic until you read the Acts passage and Revelation chapter one. I am also sure that other prophets had this experience and/or visions from the Lord. But, please, understand that these experiences have to be in agreement with the precious Word of God, the Bible.

You said, ' . . . what he believes is not of the Word of God.'

Ray is saying, 'The Lord has sovereignly gifted Pastor Hinn in this kind of a ministry to God's people. Be careful not to 'grieve' or 'quench' the Holy Spirit.

Our Lord does not give each of us pastors or laity the same gifts.

Again, I do not faithfully watch or attend Pastor Hinn's crusades and have never given to him a penny, but I believe we have to be very careful not to judge who is on the big ship call Zion as it moves toward Heaven.

Jesus said in John 14:12-14 that when He returned to the Father, that His disciples, the people of God, would do even greater miracles than He Himself had ministered. Just because some might not believe this does not mean that some of His servants cannot be used of the Lord in mighty ways.

The New Century Version says of this passage,

'I tell you the truth, whoever believes in Me, will do thesame things that I do. THOSE WHO BELIEVE will do even GREATER things than these, {miracles} because I am going to the Father.' {in Heaven}

Incidentally, I have always had a problem with this verse above; probably because of my lack of faith in Him.

Jesus raised the physically dead to new life. Can some men or women of God do this today? Each of us have to answer this question for ourselves. Jesus seems to indicate that if we have enough faith in Him, we can do marvelous things for His glory and praise.

 

II Corinthians 12:7-9.

If Paul did not have faith in His own prayers offered before the Lord, he would not have made the request for Divine healing, three times. But, rest assured that our Lord answered Paul's own 'healing line,' though he was the only one in that line for special prayers. It was not the Lord's will to heal Paul, because of his tendency toward spiritual pride. Paul's answer from the Lord was, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.' The Apostle Paul learned to have a total confidence and trust in Him. Paul probably had the gift of healing, but in his case physical healing did not happen for him. We have to pray for God's will so not even a person who is gifted in 'healing' can always produce a positive result from our viewpoint.

 

Judge for yourself Ray:

THE HERETIC

DHK

 

Yes, I think from my reading about Pastor Hinn that he should take some doctrinal courses in order to set his house in order.

Were Hymenaeus and Philetus saved men? They believed that the resurrection had already taken place, and had even toppled the faith of some Christians. But the Lord speaking through the Apostle Paul said, 'Nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knows those who are His. And, let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.' [II Timothy 2:17-20]

Calvinists disagree and have opposite views in some big areas of theology in relation to Arminian theology. Are born again Calvinists and Arminians all saved? In my view yes.

Catholics have add-on theology that the Bible never hints about. If they love Jesus are they saved. In my view the are the people of God.

As to Pastor Hinn, I come down on the side that he is confused about some doctrine, but he tries to preach the Gospel coming from the Bible. People who are 'slain in the Spirit' enjoy a deep spiritual experience, although I do not believe that just because they fall are they automatically healed. There is clearly a difference.

I also can see a danger for some pastors giving 'the word of knowledge' [I Corinthians 12:8] We are not fortune-tellers for the people of God. I never in my lifetime have told someone else what God's will is as far as where to minister or what vocation they should enter. There are things that we do know are right and wrong and we can instruct in these areas.

The Bible says, ' . . . the Father judges no man or woman, but has committed all judgment to the Son.' The Lord is the Judge as to who is saved.

 

#1. There is no such thing as doctrine "proved by healing".

#2. In Acts 17:11 we find that they WERE using the Word of God as "proof" even AFTER the death and resurrection of Christ.

Saying that the People of God did not Have the Word of God in scripture to guide them in the first century of the NT - is not supportable from the text.

In Christ,

Bob

 

that angels come to his bedroom and talk to him,

He may be right about that one.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Matthew 7:15-16 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Jesus Christ that Benny Hinn follows is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Jesus warned of false prophets which would come in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. This Hinn is one of them. He fits the description perfectly. Many will say in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name, and in thy name cast out devils? and in thy name have done many wonderful works?
But Jesus will say: "I never knew you. Depart from me ye that work iniquity."

I don't believe that Hinn knows Jesus; neither Jesus knows Hinn. In other words I don't believe Hinn is a part of the family of God. He is part of the wrong family. Just consider what kind of family Hinn describes.
The Bible says that they that worship God must worship God in spirit and in truth.
Hinn's God is carnal and physical, having bodies, with hands, eyes, and mouth.
His God is a demonic-inspired God.
DHK

 

DHK,
I sometimes can't handel some of Bro. Hinns teachings and I know what and where you found your text on Hinn. But I can't help but to think of what Jesus said to his deciples in Luke 9:49-50

49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Music4Him

 

Hi Ray, First on Paul and his not getting healed. If you read carefully what I have written on spiritual gifts you would see that ALL gifts operate the same. They are fully given to us, like any gift given from one person to another, and we decide when to use them. Paul clearly had many spirirual gifts, including healing, because he healed people. Paul had the power so much that his sweat could heal. It was in him but he would not use the healing gift on himself. The way it turned out God taught Paul a lesson that rings true to all of us and that is God's grace is sufficent and in our weakness we are made strong. How much truer was that when the gifts of healing and miracles ended. Paul clearly could have healed himself but would not use his precious spiritual gifts the wrong way, if he did then his instruction on the gifts would mean little. Spiritual gifts are not cars given to us with no gas, that God just gives the gas at certain time. God fully gave his Son to us and fully gives spiritual gifts to us. Ray, please address that last point so I can see if we are on the same page on this or not.

As for Benny hinn. I saw him on the 700 club a few years ago and he had everyone stand and then talked about a wave of the Holy spirit coming and then he waved his hands and about 2/3's of the crowd fell into their seats. Why didn't some fall? Why would God want anyone to fall back into their seats? Also, a while after that Hinn was on TV and he took off his coat and was hitting people with it, like a bull fighter - sort of, and the people were falling down all over the place. It was chaos and confusion at its best, which is exactly opposite of what Paul says a Christian gathering should be like (1 cor. 14) I knew from that point on that something was really wrong with Benny. Since then I have seen the statements DHK posted and heard of his huge mansion and car collection. I don't recall God calling paople to be rich and spend all the money they have on themselves. He has said things and then taken them back and even admitted once that some of his ministry was an act. There was a special on a couple years back on his ministry and even worldly reporters could see he was a fraud. We should be praying that he meets Jesus before he falls into the hands of the LIVING GOD, for that is a frightful place to be. if you know what I mean.

Ray, as I said before, its strange to disagree with you as we have really been on the same side of all the topics we have discussed, before this one. I hope you are well and happy and blessed,

In Christ,
Brian

 

music4Him,

You said, ' Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.'

I agree with your post and that it would not be too interesting a Christian world if we all were auster Presbyterians in worship, or dunking Baptists, or shouting Pentecostals, Nazarenes who believe in a second work of grace, or totally sacramental Roman Catholics.

Part of the equation is that God has ordained these various denominations to fit our different personalities and unique needs; and then there are some who are simply confused.

And I wonder how much this negative hipe against Pastor Hinn are just falsehoods just passed on to other people of faith? Other men of this discription are Rev. Robertson, Oral Robert,s son and Rev. Copeland. Pastor Copeland and wife are rather good preachers about the practical Christian life.

Maybe some Christians can find hateful ideas about these servants of God also.

 

Ray, Yes

I think theres a saying you can't please all the people all the time? You let one brother or sister in Christ fall one time (or get a ego in some cases) and it sure don't take long for the church people to turn aginst them.

BTW, When is the last time any of us went up to our pastors and asked if they needed prayer or anything? Why is it we get a mentality that pastors are suppost to be perfect all the time? Its always Amen brother when they preach real good but just let 'em say a few things off key that don't jive and Oh brother the christian gloves come off.

Have you hugged your Pastor today?

Music4Him

 

Briguy,

You said, 'Hi Ray, First on Paul and his not getting healed. If you read carefully what I
have written on spiritual gifts you would see that ALL gifts operate the same.
They are fully given to us, like any gift given from one person to another,
and we decide when to use them.

Ray is saying, 'Faith healers are not a magic wand to heal everyone. The Lord does not heal all who they pray for and touch.'

You said, 'Paul clearly had many spirirual gifts,
including healing, because he healed people.'

I agree with you, because Paul indicated that he spoke in tongues more than anyone else. [I Cor. 14:18 & 39 d]

You said, 'Paul had the power so much that his sweat could heal.'

Ray is saying, 'I do not recall reading the above in the Bible; is there are reference to this 'sweat?'

You said, 'It was in him but he would not use the healing gift
on himself.'

Ray is saying, 'Paul may or may not have used the gift of healing, but since God is sovereign over who he heals, Jesus apparently did not want Paul's thorn removed.'

You said, 'The way it turned out God taught Paul a lesson that rings true to
all of us and that is God's grace is sufficent and in our weakness we are
made strong.'

I agree with your statement above.

You said, 'How much truer was that when the gifts of healing and
miracles ended.'

Ray is saying, 'I do not believe that He takes gifts away from His church. 'Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.' A gift by its very nature, especially with the Lord God, are not given to some early saints, and then taken back because we have a complete Bible.'

You said, 'Paul clearly could have healed himself but would not use his
precious spiritual gifts the wrong way . . . '

Ray is saying, 'I believe the Bible says that he prayed about the matter of the thorn three times, and finally came to the realization that the Lord did not want this affliction removed from Paul's life. God had a purpose in giving him this affliction.'

You said, '. . . if he did then his instruction on the
gifts would mean little.'

Ray is saying, 'What are the instructions that God gave about the use of the gift of healing?'

You said, 'Spiritual gifts are not cars given to us with no gas, that God just gives the gas at certain time.'

Ray is saying, 'Your illustration is somewhat flawed. Faith healers will tell you that not everyone who they pray over becomes healed.'

You said, 'God fully gave his Son to us and
fully gives spiritual gifts to us. Ray, please address that last point so I can see
if we are on the same page on this or not.'
Ray is saying, 'When people have more gifts than us, we should rejoice that the Lord has given other or more gifts than we have at our disposal. Celebrate! Don't reprimand or be-little other people of God.'

You said, 'As for Benny hinn. I saw him on the 700 club a few years ago and he had
everyone stand and then talked about a wave of the Holy spirit coming and
then he waved his hands and about 2/3's of the crowd fell into their seats.
Why didn't some fall? Why would God want anyone to fall back into their
seats? Also, a while after that Hinn was on TV and he took off his coat and
was hitting people with it, like a bull fighter - sort of, and the people were
falling down all over the place.'

Ray is saying, 'When you are on T.V. it sure would not be interesting, in fact it would be boring if everyone had to sit in chairs along with the healer in order to minister his or her gift.'

You said, 'It was chaos and confusion at its best, which
is exactly opposite of what Paul says a Christian gathering should be like (1
cor. 14)'

Ray is saying, 'If you are a Baptist, a Roman Catholic or high church Episcopalian would think that your services we more than too simplistic and without the use of ancient creeds. It is a matter of worship style and preference. I could see your point if Pentecostal Churches had three people speaking in tongues at the same time. This never happens in their services. Only one speaks and one interprets. The Apostle Paul speaks either in chapter 12 or 14 about one person speaking at one time to insure order. {I Corinthians}

You said, 'Then I knew from that point on that something was really wrong with
Benny. Since then I have seen the statements DHK posted and heard of his
huge mansion and car collection.'

Ray is saying, 'I too agree with you about the above statement. He has reached too deeply into the finances of his ministry. He is a poor steward of God's money, but the Lord will deal with him and that issue at the Judgment Seat of Christ. He will be knocked down many pegs because of his greed.'

You said, 'I don't recall God calling paople to be rich and spend all the money they have on themselves.'

I agree with you, 100%.

You said, 'He has said things and
then taken them back and even admitted once that some of his ministry
was an act.'

Ray is saying, 'Is being flamboyant anti-Biblical?' When he blows on people and they are 'slain in the Spirit' I think he is demonstrating that it is not Pastor Hinn who is doing this but God Himself. Plus, it might be better not to put your hands on a woman who is coming for prayer, although I do not think this is wrong to do.'

You said, 'There was a special on a couple years back on his ministry and even worldly reporters could see he was a fraud.'

Ray is saying, 'Non-Christian television reporters have no, I repeat, no understanding of spirituality or how God works within a congregation. [I Cor. 2:14] If reporter came to your church they would say you good people were wasting your time in that building.'

You said, 'We should be praying that he meets Jesus before he falls into the hands of the LIVING GOD,'

Ray is saying, 'I personally, have no misgivings as to his strong and vibrant faith in Jesus Christ as personal Savior, though he probably needs to study under my teaching for a few years. And I am sure that he knows some things that God has not explained to me yet.'

You said, ' . . . for that is a frightful place to be. if you know what I mean.'

Ray is saying, 'Boy do I know that!!! Although we are the children of God, He is awesome in holiness and grandeur. We are not dealing with 'a tin badged sheriff'
and we all are going to have a lot to answer for when we stand before Him at the Judgment Seat of Christ. I tremble inside when I read, [II Cor. 5:10 & *11]

You said, 'Ray, as I said before, its strange to disagree with you as we have really been
on the same side of all the topics we have discussed, before this one. I hope
you are well and happy and blessed.

Ray is saying, 'I feel the same way and well know that none of us are flaw free. Pastor Hinn does wrong things that I am sure displease the Lord. Some pastors have a way of downgrading other ministers and priests because of jealousy. They know they are not as effective as some other people. This, however, is something to celebrate in that we are all serving the same Lord Jesus.

I trust that you are well physically and all those who you love. In fact, I hope all of the brethren on this board are doing well. I have to believe that our Lord will take care of us and meet all of our needs both, spiritually, emotionally, physically and financially.'

Brother,
Ray

 

Briguy,

I have seen this statement that you made and I need you to tell me where you found it.

You said that God gives us the gifts, and then we use them however, and when we see fit.



Could you give me chapter and verse to back that up???



Working for Him,

Tam

 

A person who worships a "nine person trinity"
a god that is a physical being with a body having a mouth, eyes, and hands, is definitely against us and not for us.
He worships another god. His Christ is another Christ.

2 John 1:9-11 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
DHK

 

Hi Tam. The verse support would be any verse where someone is exercising their gift and not waiting for God to power up the gift. Take Peter and the crippled beggar. He just said "get up" without any hesitation. My statement is one of logic and practical application. What I want you and others to understand is that our "gifts" are not something that we hang on a hook and just grab once in a while to use. Our gifts are like drinking water, the water enters us and becomes one with us, it is no longer seperate. That is why the gifted preacher can always preach or the gifted administrator can always lead and the gifted helper always is ready to serve. The power of our gifts is within us. I pointed out that Paul's sweat healed and Peter's shadow healed. That is the out pouring of power from those early miraculous gifts, the ones that have ceased. I part from DHK in that I believe the service gifts remain. Knowledge and prophecy being amoung them.

Tam, you tell me something. If spiritual "gifts" given by the Holy Spirit are not what I say they are, that being something given fully from the FATHER to us, His children, then how do they work? how and when can they be used? Dont forget the Biblical application and verse support. I wasn't trying to be a wise guy there, I just can't think of how else a gift from God would operate. Thanks

Ray, you said the "faith healers" can't heal everybody. If you research the success rate of the great healers of the TV generation you will see it is very very low. Why? because God does the healing now through prayer and His will being done. The miraculous gift of healing, held by those few in the early church, has left the church as its need left, when the Bible was complete. Those miraculous gifts were needed to start the "church" but are not part of the "church" today, as seen by pure practical application. The data is clear for anyone who really looks. Once again, God can choose to heal anytime he wants, in response to prayer or not, and i believe this happens all the time around the world, it just isn't the gift of healing spoken of in the NT.

In Christ,
Brian

 

With respect, I believe that Benny Hinn is an outright fake, or at least, self-deceived. I went to one of his 'crusades' while I lived back east. What a 'showman'. And of course, what the cameras didn't show you was the large group in the back, in the dark, in wheelchairs, who never got a 'miracle', never went up front. I'll never forget the look of one boy in a wheel chair...the sorrow on his face (because he didn't receive a miracle)not only made ME sad, it made me ANGRY. Hinn's shenanigans on stage, and his aberrant teachings have been fully-documented. So has his lavish lifestyle. He and all his 'friends' on TBN do MORE disservice to Christianity than any of the 'liberal' crowd, even John Shelby Spong. Sorry, but I can't stand 'Pastor Benny'.

 

I love Benny Hinn. I believe that he is legitimate.
Those who don't care for him should at least pray for Him.

 

What's there to love about a fraud. He needs to get right with God. If you believe he is legitimate, on what basis do you believe that. Have you not read the evidence that says the contrary?
DHK

 

Sigh!

How about putting away the long black robes,
take off all the blue ribbons, and get back on the topic of "What has ceased?"


MEE