Briguy,
You said, 'Hi Ray, First on Paul and his not getting healed. If you read carefully what I
have written on spiritual gifts you would see that ALL gifts operate the same.
They are fully given to us, like any gift given from one person to another,
and we decide when to use them.
Ray is saying, 'Faith healers are not a magic wand to heal everyone. The Lord does not heal all who they pray for and touch.'
You said, 'Paul clearly had many spirirual gifts,
including healing, because he healed people.'
I agree with you, because Paul indicated that he spoke in tongues more than anyone else. [I Cor. 14:18 & 39 d]
You said, 'Paul had the power so much that his sweat could heal.'
Ray is saying, 'I do not recall reading the above in the Bible; is there are reference to this 'sweat?'
You said, 'It was in him but he would not use the healing gift
on himself.'
Ray is saying, 'Paul may or may not have used the gift of healing, but since God is sovereign over who he heals, Jesus apparently did not want Paul's thorn removed.'
You said, 'The way it turned out God taught Paul a lesson that rings true to
all of us and that is God's grace is sufficent and in our weakness we are
made strong.'
I agree with your statement above.
You said, 'How much truer was that when the gifts of healing and
miracles ended.'
Ray is saying, 'I do not believe that He takes gifts away from His church. 'Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.' A gift by its very nature, especially with the Lord God, are not given to some early saints, and then taken back because we have a complete Bible.'
You said, 'Paul clearly could have healed himself but would not use his
precious spiritual gifts the wrong way . . . '
Ray is saying, 'I believe the Bible says that he prayed about the matter of the thorn three times, and finally came to the realization that the Lord did not want this affliction removed from Paul's life. God had a purpose in giving him this affliction.'
You said, '. . . if he did then his instruction on the
gifts would mean little.'
Ray is saying, 'What are the instructions that God gave about the use of the gift of healing?'
You said, 'Spiritual gifts are not cars given to us with no gas, that God just gives the gas at certain time.'
Ray is saying, 'Your illustration is somewhat flawed. Faith healers will tell you that not everyone who they pray over becomes healed.'
You said, 'God fully gave his Son to us and
fully gives spiritual gifts to us. Ray, please address that last point so I can see
if we are on the same page on this or not.'
Ray is saying, 'When people have more gifts than us, we should rejoice that the Lord has given other or more gifts than we have at our disposal. Celebrate! Don't reprimand or be-little other people of God.'
You said, 'As for Benny hinn. I saw him on the 700 club a few years ago and he had
everyone stand and then talked about a wave of the Holy spirit coming and
then he waved his hands and about 2/3's of the crowd fell into their seats.
Why didn't some fall? Why would God want anyone to fall back into their
seats? Also, a while after that Hinn was on TV and he took off his coat and
was hitting people with it, like a bull fighter - sort of, and the people were
falling down all over the place.'
Ray is saying, 'When you are on T.V. it sure would not be interesting, in fact it would be boring if everyone had to sit in chairs along with the healer in order to minister his or her gift.'
You said, 'It was chaos and confusion at its best, which
is exactly opposite of what Paul says a Christian gathering should be like (1
cor. 14)'
Ray is saying, 'If you are a Baptist, a Roman Catholic or high church Episcopalian would think that your services we more than too simplistic and without the use of ancient creeds. It is a matter of worship style and preference. I could see your point if Pentecostal Churches had three people speaking in tongues at the same time. This never happens in their services. Only one speaks and one interprets. The Apostle Paul speaks either in chapter 12 or 14 about one person speaking at one time to insure order. {I Corinthians}
You said, 'Then I knew from that point on that something was really wrong with
Benny. Since then I have seen the statements DHK posted and heard of his
huge mansion and car collection.'
Ray is saying, 'I too agree with you about the above statement. He has reached too deeply into the finances of his ministry. He is a poor steward of God's money, but the Lord will deal with him and that issue at the Judgment Seat of Christ. He will be knocked down many pegs because of his greed.'
You said, 'I don't recall God calling paople to be rich and spend all the money they have on themselves.'
I agree with you, 100%.
You said, 'He has said things and
then taken them back and even admitted once that some of his ministry
was an act.'
Ray is saying, 'Is being flamboyant anti-Biblical?' When he blows on people and they are 'slain in the Spirit' I think he is demonstrating that it is not Pastor Hinn who is doing this but God Himself. Plus, it might be better not to put your hands on a woman who is coming for prayer, although I do not think this is wrong to do.'
You said, 'There was a special on a couple years back on his ministry and even worldly reporters could see he was a fraud.'
Ray is saying, 'Non-Christian television reporters have no, I repeat, no understanding of spirituality or how God works within a congregation. [I Cor. 2:14] If reporter came to your church they would say you good people were wasting your time in that building.'
You said, 'We should be praying that he meets Jesus before he falls into the hands of the LIVING GOD,'
Ray is saying, 'I personally, have no misgivings as to his strong and vibrant faith in Jesus Christ as personal Savior, though he probably needs to study under my teaching for a few years. And I am sure that he knows some things that God has not explained to me yet.'
You said, ' . . . for that is a frightful place to be. if you know what I mean.'
Ray is saying, 'Boy do I know that!!! Although we are the children of God, He is awesome in holiness and grandeur. We are not dealing with 'a tin badged sheriff'
and we all are going to have a lot to answer for when we stand before Him at the Judgment Seat of Christ. I tremble inside when I read, [II Cor. 5:10 & *11]
You said, 'Ray, as I said before, its strange to disagree with you as we have really been
on the same side of all the topics we have discussed, before this one. I hope
you are well and happy and blessed.
Ray is saying, 'I feel the same way and well know that none of us are flaw free. Pastor Hinn does wrong things that I am sure displease the Lord. Some pastors have a way of downgrading other ministers and priests because of jealousy. They know they are not as effective as some other people. This, however, is something to celebrate in that we are all serving the same Lord Jesus.
I trust that you are well physically and all those who you love. In fact, I hope all of the brethren on this board are doing well. I have to believe that our Lord will take care of us and meet all of our needs both, spiritually, emotionally, physically and financially.'
Brother,
Ray
