What has ceased?

[Briguy]

Atestring, you are way too smart to fall for Hinn's deception. Please spend some time researching his doctrine and life practices and you will see he is not a part of the family of God, in the same sense that a morman or JW is not. I hate to sound so unforgiving. I just mean to say that Hinn's doctrine and practices are not scriptually based and so it seems he would not be one of us. Just the mansion and worldly wealth should scare you away.

Carol, sorry we got away from the topic. Hinn is just so frustrating that some of us can't help steering others away from him.

Tam, waiting for your reply.

Jude, What is the official RCC position on the gift of tongues?

In Christ,
Braian

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:
Sigh!

How about putting away the long black robes,
take off all the blue ribbons, and get back on the topic of "What has ceased?"


MEE

The gifts of the Spirit have ceased (if not all of them at least the sign gifts have). If they haven't you would be able to have the gift of healing made as readily available to you just as much as the gift of tongues. But just as tongues is a big charade so is healing (that's where Hinn came in). If the gifts are for today demonstrate it through healing, and walk through the corridors of a hospital and heal all that are there. Not even Hinn will take up a challenge like that. He'll take your money without healing you. The gift of healing have ceased, along with the gift of tongues, unless you can demonstrate otherwise. Demonstrate that these gifts are ALL operative today, and operate within the bounds that the Scripture (such as 1Cor.14) has set.
DHK

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by MEE:
Sigh!

How about putting away the long black robes,
take off all the blue ribbons, and get back on the topic of "What has ceased?"


MEE

The gifts of the Spirit have ceased (if not all of them at least the sign gifts have). If they haven't you would be able to have the gift of healing made as readily available to you just as much as the gift of tongues. But just as tongues is a big charade so is healing (that's where Hinn came in). If the gifts are for today demonstrate it through healing, and walk through the corridors of a hospital and heal all that are there. Not even Hinn will take up a challenge like that. He'll take your money without healing you. The gift of healing have ceased, along with the gift of tongues, unless you can demonstrate otherwise. Demonstrate that these gifts are ALL operative today, and operate within the bounds that the Scripture (such as 1Cor.14) has set.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]The gifts have ceased only in the minds of unbelievers! If one doesn't believe in something, they are unbelievers. Why should God pour out His blessings on such an audience? He doesn't! That is why they don't have what He left for them.

We have healings in our churches all the time. Also, we hear of such healings from our missionaries. Not all are healed, that didn't even happen, in the Bible, ALL the time, as was pointed out.

As far as tongues ceasing, I don't think so! They won't until the end of the Gentile dispensation or better known as the rapture of "The Church."

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pentecostal/New-ch11.htm

Are you a believer or an unbeliever?

MEE

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by Briguy:
Atestring, you are way too smart to fall for Hinn's deception. Please spend some time researching his doctrine and life practices and you will see he is not a part of the family of God, in the same sense that a morman or JW is not. I hate to sound so unforgiving. I just mean to say that Hinn's doctrine and practices are not scriptually based and so it seems he would not be one of us. Just the mansion and worldly wealth should scare you away.


Tam, waiting for your reply.

Jude, What is the official RCC position on the gift of tongues?

In Christ,
Braian

Brickguy,
I wouldn't get my undies in a bundle over the house that Benny Hinn lives in.
You probably live in a nicer house than someone else in this world.
The accusations that you make are very serious.
To say that someone is not a part of the family of God is a strong statement. WHat qualifies you to judge and make a statement like that?

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by DHK:

The gifts of the Spirit have ceased (if not all of them at least the sign gifts have).

Ephesians 4 and 1Cor 12 give no sign that prior to the 2nd coming when we "See face to face" - spiritual gifts listed in those chapters "are to cease".

DHK --
If they haven't you would be able to have the gift of healing made as readily available to you just as much as the gift of tongues. But just as tongues is a big charade so is healing (that's where Hinn came in).

It is a mistake to assume that just because a false form exists - the true form can not exist.

Recall that the Jewish leaders of Christ's day - assumed that he did not have the true gift of healing - that he was working for demons.

I don't deny that Hinn is using a false form. I just deny that the existence of a counterfeit is some kind of proof that the genuine no longer exists.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[tamborine lady]

Briguy,

It doesn.t matter what you have made up in your mind about things, it matters what the scripture says.

Mee is right, not all the people ever got healed ALL the time in the Bible.

Please read this:

Zac 4-6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

Even when you have the gifts, they are operated by God through you. Since it is God that heals and not the person with the gift, God gets to decide who gets healed and who doesn't!!!

Moving on to what HAS ceased, hers one for you.

In the old testament,when a child became unruly and the parents could not get them to behave(they had to be really bad) the whole town took them out to the edge of town and stoned them ubtil they were dead. Now I don't know about the rest of you, but that is one that I am GLAD that it has ceased.

Working for Him,

Tam,

 

[tamborine lady]

Just in case someone doesn't understand the scripture, it means that the gifts are operated by the Spirit of God not the spirit of the person.

None of us can heal anyone, but God can, when we pray and lay hands on someone.

Tam

 

[tamborine lady]

Briguy,

This is what God thinks about your logic and practical application:

1 Cor. 1-19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

1 Cor 1-25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

That no flesh should glory in His presence. Thats why I said God does it by His POWER not ours.

Working for Him,

Tam

 

[tamborine lady]

Hey Atestring, how do you pronounce that?

Is it eight-string?

or At-e-string?

Just wondering----------------------

Tam

 

[BobRyan]

A Test String? A Test Ring?

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by atestring:

Brickguy,
I wouldn't get my undies in a bundle over the house that Benny Hinn lives in.
You probably live in a nicer house than someone else in this world.
The accusations that you make are very serious.
To say that someone is not a part of the family of God is a strong statement. WHat qualifies you to judge and make a statement like that?

atestring, you just made my day! LOL!

I came inside just to see what was going on and this post is the highlight of all posts.

Now on a more serious note...what do some of you all think about how God blessed King Solomon and others? What's wrong with God blessing anyone?

MEE

 

[atestring]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:
Hey Atestring, how do you pronounce that?

Is it eight-string?

or At-e-string?

Just wondering----------------------

Tam

Eight string.
Because my hobby is playing the mandolin. Bluegrass music runs through my veins. This will make me live longer. We all have a certain number of days to live but the time we spend playing bluegrass music doesn't count toward our length of days.
There are 8 strings on a mandolin.

 

[music4Him]

Atestring, Wow.....I almost got a mandolin! I play 6 string and 12 string guitars does that give me any points? tee hee hee.

Yippee! Music hasn't ceased! Not unless you go to a church that don't like music? I went to a Church of Christ once and they didn't have any instruments.....I would ask why, but that would be another topic.

Music4Him

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by MEE:
The gifts have ceased only in the minds of unbelievers! If one doesn't believe in something, they are unbelievers. Why should God pour out His blessings on such an audience? He doesn't! That is why they don't have what He left for them.

This is the typical Charismatic (or tongue-speaker) slur against against those who believe the Bible over experience, in that the Bible teaches that these gifts have ceased. You love to call us unbelievers. It hasn't been the first time though, and probably won't be the last. But is sure is a lame excuse for a defense.

We have healings in our churches all the time. Also, we hear of such healings from our missionaries. Not all are healed, that didn't even happen, in the Bible, ALL the time, as was pointed out.

Yes, I am a missionary too. And I also have seen God heal. I never said God doesn't heal. I said that the gift of healing has ceased, along with the other sign gifts. It is too bad you won't take up my challenge and prove me wrong. Find me someone who has the gift of healing who can heal ALL that comes to him, just like it happened in Apostolic times. You won't and can't because that gift has ceased, just as tongues has.

As far as tongues ceasing, I don't think so! They won't until the end of the Gentile dispensation or better known as the rapture of "The Church."

That's not what the Bible teaches. The Bible gives 2 focal points in time, as to when tongues (as well as other gifts) would ceased. The text of 1Cor.13:8-13 teaches that the gifts of prophecy, tongues, and revelatory knowledge would cease when the Word of God (the Bible) was completed, which it was at the end of the first century. That is the first time reference we have. The second is in 1Cor.14:21,22, where Paul tells us that the purpose of tongues was for a sign to the unbelieving Jew. If they did not believe this sign as an authenticating sign of the gospel message then judgement would come upon them. They didn't believe. Judgement came, and the Roman general, Titus, wiped out the city of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Tongues had pretty much faded out or ceased by that time.
Consider one other time reference. The First Epistle to the Corinthians was written around 50 A.D. In every epistle written after 50 A.D. tongues is never mentioned. In all of Paul's other epistles, especially in his epistles to pastors (Timothy and Titus) which give instruction concerning the church, and in the Book of Revelation when Jesus addresses the seven churches mentioned there--in all these churches there is never any mention of tongues. Why? The gift had ceased. It probably ceased shortly after Pentecost. It was a sign for the unbelieving Jew. But the sign was not going to last forever--only a short period of time--and then it would cease. And it did!

Are you a believer or an unbeliever?

You shouldn't even be asking this question? But if you want an honest answer, I am not the one that is the unbeliever.
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by BobRyan:
Ephesians 4 and 1Cor 12 give no sign that prior to the 2nd coming when we "See face to face" - spiritual gifts listed in those chapters "are to cease".

James 1:23-25 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

James uses the same imagery that Paul uses--that of a man looking into a glass or mirror and sees himself face to face. The mirror is the Word of God. Blessed is the man who looks in the perfect (or completed) Word of God (law of liberty} and continues therein. This doesn't happen at the rapture. The blessed man is the one who has the entire Word of God to look into, and the more he does so, the more of his own reflection he can see. The Holy Spirit will be sure to point out every little fallacy that you have. But you can just take a glance in the mirror, walk away, and forget if you even combed your hair. That's how some people treat the Bible.

The gifts ceased when the Bible was completed.

DHK --
If they haven't you would be able to have the gift of healing made as readily available to you just as much as the gift of tongues. But just as tongues is a big charade so is healing (that's where Hinn came in).

It is a mistake to assume that just because a false form exists - the true form can not exist.
Recall that the Jewish leaders of Christ's day - assumed that he did not have the true gift of healing - that he was working for demons.
I don't deny that Hinn is using a false form. I just deny that the existence of a counterfeit is some kind of proof that the genuine no longer exists.

The gift of healing has ceased primarily because the Bible teaches it has. Secondly, if it hasn't ceased there would be evidence that it would be in existence today, but there is none, and no one has come forward with any.
The same is true with tongues. There is not one person on this board that can duplicate the gift of healing as it was in the first century--all that came to the Apostles were healed. Please provide the evidence or shut up about it and admit it has ceased.
Likewise about tongues. Put up or shut up.
Point to one church that follows all the restrictions that Paul sets forth in 1Cor.14, including the fact that the tongue being spoken is a real language, and it is being interpreted into another real language, so that everyone in the congregation can understand it. Also remember that all congregations are limited to men only when it comes to tongues. Only two, at the most three can speak in foreign languages; they must have an interpreter; and they must speak in turn. The message of each must edify the entire body of believers (the local church).
And even if you do all that, Paul says that he would rather speak five words with understanding than 10,000 words in tongues.
DHK

 

[music4Him]

DHK,
You tell me where it says that every one got healed all the time.

Quote by DHK
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, I am a missionary too. And I also have seen God heal. I never said God doesn't heal. I said that the gift of healing has ceased, along with the other sign gifts. It is too bad you won't take up my challenge and prove me wrong. Find me someone who has the gift of healing who can heal ALL that comes to him, just like it happened in Apostolic times. You won't and can't because that gift has ceased, just as tongues has.
--------------------------------------------------

I thought I've read a few times that some didn't get healed in apostolic times?

BTW, you keep saying that the gift of healing has ceased, if it has ceased it would mean it has stopped compleatly, and as far as I have seen it hasn't, because I have seen healings. BTW, It looks more like Tam and Mee are saying that you don't "belive in the gifts", not the Gift Giver Himself.

We all know you belive in the Lord.

Music4Him

 

[BobRyan]

DHK said The gift of healing has ceased primarily because the Bible teaches it has.

Where?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by BobRyan:
Ephesians 4 and 1Cor 12 give no sign that prior to the 2nd coming when we "See face to face" - spiritual gifts listed in those chapters "are to cease".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



James 1:23-25 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


Says nothing about the statement "We SEE in a glass darkly but THEN we shall see face to face" which is a clear reference to the 2nd coming.

As John says "We shall see Him as He is" and "We shall know him even as we are known" at that future date.

But James does not argue for "Some future date when the Bible is complete"

DHK said --
James uses the same imagery that Paul uses--that of a man looking into a glass or mirror and sees himself face to face. The mirror is the Word of God. Blessed is the man who looks in the perfect (or completed) Word of God (law of liberty} and continues therein. This doesn't happen at the rapture. The blessed man is the one who has the entire Word of God to look into,

James makes no reference to "The Law of God is not yet complete" nor does any Bible writer in any age.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[music4Him]

I sure wished this board had one of those "I dunno smilies".

Thats what I been trying to figure out Bob.

BTW, would what Jesus said over rule what Paul says?

Music4Him

 

[music4Him]

Originally posted by music4Him:
I sure wished this board had one of those "I dunno smilies".

Thats what I been trying to figure out Bob.

That is to say where DHK says tongues and healing has ceased?

Music4Him