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What has ceased?
- Thread starter micahaaron
- Start date
Jesus said in Matthew 16: 15-18
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Now don't get me wrong. I don't want to pick up any serpents and play patty cake with them........
But, I assumed we get the same benifits while we make our journey here. Jesus don't say that it will cease.
In verse 17 the word "accompany" in the bible dictionary is translated: to have, to keep, hold. We have 'em if we belive, now using (I'm assuming) is up to us. But the best gift is the salvation that Jesus offers to us all.
Music4Him
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
Now don't get me wrong. I don't want to pick up any serpents and play patty cake with them........
But, I assumed we get the same benifits while we make our journey here. Jesus don't say that it will cease.
Music4Him
One thing you can say about the Church of Christ :Originally posted by music4Him:
Atestring, Wow.....I almost got a mandolin! I play 6 string and 12 string guitars does that give me any points? tee hee hee.
Yippee! Music hasn't ceased! Not unless you go to a church that don't like music? I went to a Church of Christ once and they didn't have any instruments.....I would ask why, but that would be another topic.
Music4Him
They have never had a preacher run off with the piano player!!!!!
tamborine lady
Active Member
Atestring, Thanks for the explanation of your name!!
We have the beginnings of a band here, you play banjo, Music plays guitar and I play tamborine!!
Have a good day!
Tam
Tongues and the gifts of the Spirit of God have ceased? No, not so!
First and Second Century: Paul believed in speaking in tongues, as well as the gifts of the Spirit. Also, the following also believed:
2) Clement of Rome 100 AD
3) Ignatius 107 AD
4) Polycarp
5) Justin Martyr speaks of WOMEN & MEN who possess "gifts of the Spirit of God."
6) Irenaeus 130-202 AD
7) Bishop of Lyons-taught "speaking in tongues" as evidence of the Spirit.
8) Origen 254 AD
Third Century:
9) Tertullian AD 200
10) Novatian 257 AD
11) Sabellius
12) Asterius Urbanus
Fourth & Fifth Centuries:
13) Hilary, bishop of Poitiers
14) Ambrose 340-398
...and the list goes on, up until this day.
All information is in the link below: TONGUES and the GIFTS of the SPIRIT have not ceased!
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pentecostal/New-ch11.htm
MEE
No, not so!First and Second Century: Paul believed in speaking in tongues, as well as the gifts of the Spirit. Also, the following also believed:
2) Clement of Rome 100 AD
3) Ignatius 107 AD
4) Polycarp
5) Justin Martyr speaks of WOMEN & MEN who possess "gifts of the Spirit of God."
6) Irenaeus 130-202 AD
7) Bishop of Lyons-taught "speaking in tongues" as evidence of the Spirit.
8) Origen 254 AD
Third Century:
9) Tertullian AD 200
10) Novatian 257 AD
11) Sabellius
12) Asterius Urbanus
Fourth & Fifth Centuries:
13) Hilary, bishop of Poitiers
14) Ambrose 340-398
...and the list goes on, up until this day.
All information is in the link below: TONGUES and the GIFTS of the SPIRIT have not ceased!
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pentecostal/New-ch11.htm
MEE
Your statement only belies the fact that you don't read my posts, for I never said that. What I did say is that there were times in the Apostles' ministry (as well in those of the minitries' of some early believers) that they were able to heal all who came to them. I did not say that they could do this all the time. They could not speak in tongues all the time either. Both gifts were given only when needed.
Here is the evidence, just as I gave before:
Acts 5:15-16 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
They were healed every one. Does every one mean everone? Or does it mean ALL? You choose. The Apostles had the power at certain times in their ministry to heal ALL that came to them. Do you?
--------------------------------------------------
Your right some didn't. It wasnt always God's will for all to be healed. But it definitely was at certain times in the ministries of the Apostles, as evidenced in the Scriptures above. Surely you believe the Bible, don't you?
This is more evidence that you don't read my posts, or just don't want to believe the truth (which is more likely to be the truth). The gift of healing has ceased. That is correct. If it hasn't you haven't given any evidence that it is still in operation today. I never said that God doesn't heal today. I said the very opposite, and you even quoted me as saying it. God heals. Period. But the gift of healing has ceased. If it hasn't show me the person who can heal all that comes to him. Back up your claim with some solid evidence.BTW, you keep saying that the gift of healing has ceased, if it has ceased it would mean it has stopped compleatly, and as far as I have seen it hasn't, because I have seen healings. BTW, It looks more like Tam and Mee are saying that you don't "belive in the gifts", not the Gift Giver Himself.We all know you belive in the Lord.
Likewise do the same with tongues. You can't.
DHK
Ray Berrian
New Member
My wife and I met a woman in her 80's who saw us debating whether to get Centrum Silver or another brand called Sentury-Vite. She suggest another brand at Walmart. We got talking and said that she attended a Bible study and in a most recent time got 'born again.' She said she was angry for a while because she had been Catholic since a child and believed that she was never saved. She attends a Catholic Church in Easton, PA. called, St. James de Chantal, and not her pastor but another priest and she has 'the gift of tongues.' She also mentioned she loves to hear Dr. Stanley preach. She was more than excited about her newly found experience in the Christian faith. I told her that I had never spoken in tongues, but one time was 'slain in the Spirit.' She had experienced that too. She feels her ministry is in prayer, as she termed it as, 'a prayer warrior.' She appeared to be a balanced and dignified lady who at one time live in NYC. I told her that I considered myself an evangelical but did not have the 'gift of tongues.'
The three of us had a nice, brief visit as we talked about the things of God. If we "X" out the gifts of the Holy Spirit, then what other parts of the New Testament shall we blot out from God's inspired Word of God?
If God has not given us these gifts, I still see no reason to deny what is written in His Word. The Lord gives His gifts as He sees fit to do so. [I Corinthians 12:11]
The three of us had a nice, brief visit as we talked about the things of God. If we "X" out the gifts of the Holy Spirit, then what other parts of the New Testament shall we blot out from God's inspired Word of God?
If God has not given us these gifts, I still see no reason to deny what is written in His Word. The Lord gives His gifts as He sees fit to do so. [I Corinthians 12:11]
Great concise website , MEE!!Originally posted by MEE:
Tongues and the gifts of the Spirit of God have ceased?
First and Second Century: Paul believed in speaking in tongues, as well as the gifts of the Spirit. Also, the following also believed:
2) Clement of Rome 100 AD
3) Ignatius 107 AD
4) Polycarp
5) Justin Martyr speaks of WOMEN & MEN who possess "gifts of the Spirit of God."
6) Irenaeus 130-202 AD
7) Bishop of Lyons-taught "speaking in tongues" as evidence of the Spirit.
8) Origen 254 AD
Third Century:
9) Tertullian AD 200
10) Novatian 257 AD
11) Sabellius
12) Asterius Urbanus
Fourth & Fifth Centuries:
13) Hilary, bishop of Poitiers
14) Ambrose 340-398
...and the list goes on, up until this day.
All information is in the link below: TONGUES and the GIFTS of the SPIRIT have not ceased!
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pentecostal/New-ch11.htm
MEE
The proof is in the pudding.
Great revivals are happening today in Baptist Churches all ove the world.
Two weeks ago , I was at the "FRESH OIL NEW WINE" Conference in HIXSON TENNESSEE at Central Baptist Church and experienced revival with many Baptist Preachers that have experienced The Baptism In The Holy Spirit. Jesus is still baptizing people today in the Holy Spirit and bringing dead churches back to life.
This has not ceased and it is not going to cease until Jesus Comes to rapture His Bride.
Watch as the move of God gets stronger. those that fight this are going to be left in a cloud of smoke as God's kingdom keeps moving and the Glory of the Lord covers the whole earth as the waters cover the sea. HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!
Ray Berrian
New Member
With or without the gift of tongues, revival is glorious when the hearts of God's people are filled and challenged to witness and to grow in faith by the study of His holy Word. We all need to seek the Giver first and if any gifts follow that is from Him also. I'm so glad to hear of revival fires in our nation.
My prayer is "Lord set me aflame with Your glorious Presence and power in my heart."
My prayer is "Lord set me aflame with Your glorious Presence and power in my heart."
Bob I appreciate the sincerety you seem to convey in your post.
Manifestations are not new.
Study the Cane Ridge Revival of 1801.
The Great Awakening.
The ministry of John Wesley.
the Ministry of George Whitfield.
The ministry of Chalres Finney.
The Ulster Presbryterians of Ulster scottland in the 1600's.
You will find that manifestions of The Holy Spirit have been with us and they are not something to be afraid of.
My experience has been that the only people that are skeptical are people that have not experienced these manifestations. The people that have experienced these manifestations are not worried about them.
Biblically, I think the spirit of Gamaliel in the Book of Acts is a biblical attitude to have. If these are of God do not fight them. If they are not of God then they will not last.
Ieatstring (he he) writes:
"""Brickguy,
I wouldn't get my undies in a bundle over the house that Benny Hinn lives in.
You probably live in a nicer house than someone else in this world.
The accusations that you make are very serious.
To say that someone is not a part of the family of God is a strong statement. WHat qualifies you to judge and make a statement like that? """
What makes me judge? Jesus Christ made me judge. That is to say when I got saved and was grafted into God's family it is my job to try and figure out who is not part of God's family and then witness to them as to draw them to God's family. We are to judge the world by the standards the Bible tells us too. Jesus said, His sheep hear him and listen. We also have the "fruits of the Spirit". When I judge a person I could be wrong, because only God knows a persons heart. We all are put in the place of "judge" daily, its part of the Christian life. Now, that said, LOVE is the key to the Christian life and all things follow that. Love of God and love of others, is what can never cease. More later,
In Christ,
Brian
"""Brickguy,
I wouldn't get my undies in a bundle over the house that Benny Hinn lives in.
You probably live in a nicer house than someone else in this world.
The accusations that you make are very serious.
To say that someone is not a part of the family of God is a strong statement. WHat qualifies you to judge and make a statement like that? """
What makes me judge? Jesus Christ made me judge. That is to say when I got saved and was grafted into God's family it is my job to try and figure out who is not part of God's family and then witness to them as to draw them to God's family. We are to judge the world by the standards the Bible tells us too. Jesus said, His sheep hear him and listen. We also have the "fruits of the Spirit". When I judge a person I could be wrong, because only God knows a persons heart. We all are put in the place of "judge" daily, its part of the Christian life. Now, that said, LOVE is the key to the Christian life and all things follow that. Love of God and love of others, is what can never cease. More later,
In Christ,
Brian
Ray Berrian
New Member
I think we have to be balanced in the Christian life. I kind of feel like we should be 'checking the fruit on our own vines, rather than being 'fruit inspectors' in the lives of other people. I have enough to correct in my own life and to keep my feet on the narrow path.
The Parable of the Tares in Matthew 25-42. Jesus tells us not to uproot the tares lest we injure or uproot the wheat. [vs29] 'Let them grow together until the harvest!' [vs.30] The reapers will be the angels. [vs.39] Hell will be the landing zone for all who disobey Christ. [vs. 42] Verse [43] tells us that Christians will remain saved and safe in this life and in the life to come. We will shine forth like the solar sun.
I would not worry too much about tares unless they were disrupting a service of Divine worship or slandering a Christian minister or the laity in a church. How many times have Christians stood by and let other people slander their pastor when the have been no verifiable facts about a situation.? The Bible says, 'By their fruit ye shall know them.'
The Parable of the Tares in Matthew 25-42. Jesus tells us not to uproot the tares lest we injure or uproot the wheat. [vs29] 'Let them grow together until the harvest!' [vs.30] The reapers will be the angels. [vs.39] Hell will be the landing zone for all who disobey Christ. [vs. 42] Verse [43] tells us that Christians will remain saved and safe in this life and in the life to come. We will shine forth like the solar sun.
I would not worry too much about tares unless they were disrupting a service of Divine worship or slandering a Christian minister or the laity in a church. How many times have Christians stood by and let other people slander their pastor when the have been no verifiable facts about a situation.? The Bible says, 'By their fruit ye shall know them.'
Ray Berrian
New Member
Someone said, 'What makes me judge? Jesus Christ made me judge.'
I think the less fruit inspectors the better. Did not Jesus say, 'For the Father judges no man or woman; but has committed all judgment to the Son' our Savior. That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father Who hath sent Him.' [John 5:22-23]
Should not each individual Christian see that he or she is living within the good pleasure of the Holy Spirit? For most of us this is a full time job.
I think the less fruit inspectors the better. Did not Jesus say, 'For the Father judges no man or woman; but has committed all judgment to the Son' our Savior. That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father Who hath sent Him.' [John 5:22-23]
Should not each individual Christian see that he or she is living within the good pleasure of the Holy Spirit? For most of us this is a full time job.
You say that the gift of healing has ceased! OK, how many had to be present to be healed, in order for you to call it the "Gift of healing," in apostolic times?
It seems as though you feel that there has to be a crowd.
I believe that if a person comes to be annointed and prayed for, by the elders of the church, (James 5:14) Is any sick among you sick? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, annointig him with oil in the name of the Lord..) that if the person is healed..that is the "Gift of healing" in operation. It dosen't have to be more that one person.
I talked with a man that just returned from India. He went with other ministers on a missionary trip. While visiting at his home, he showed me a video of a woman that came to be prayed for. She was deaf in both ears.
As I watched the video, the ministers came to her and prayed that she would be healed. Immediatly she received her hearing. SHE WAS HEALED!...by God Almighty.
Now, do you call this *being healed by God* and not the "Gift of healing" because there was only ONE PERSON requesting healing?
Also, on this video, I saw another woman that wanted the baptism of the Holy Ghost. The ministers prayed for her and as I watched, I could hear her as she began to "speak in tongues" as the Spirit of God gave the utterance.
"Back up a claim with solid evidence"...I just did! Also, the link, in my last post, was good research also. Thanks atestring, I'm glad you liked it.
DHK, you may never believe what God has left for us, but there are some that do believe and if you choose to rebuke me, that's fine. Been there done that! There are others that may benefit from what some say on the board.
MEE
If Jesus Christ is who made you judge then how can you judge and then say, "When I judge I could be wrong because only God knows a persons heart?"
Could you say that "God knows Benny Hinn's heart" and that you could be wrong? Or do you want to stick to the statement that Jesus Christ made you judge?
I would think that if Jesus Christ made you judge then you would be judging by the power of Jesus Christ. HE cannot be wrong.
You say that the gift of healing has ceased! OK, how many had to be present to be healed, in order for you to call it the "Gift of healing," in apostolic times?
It seems as though you feel that there has to be a crowd. </font>[/QUOTE]Go back and read my posts. You apparently do not read what I post. I have prayed for people and seen them healed. This is at least the third time that I have said ths. I have done this also in accordance with the anointing of oil in James 5. I also can give you testimony as you just have. God answers prayer. I never said he didn't. I never said that God doesn't heal. Please get that through your "mind that refuses to understand, your ears that refuse to hear, your eyes that refuse to see."
Once again I said that THE GIFT of healing has ceased. Not healing itself, but the gift of healing has ceased. There is a difference. In Mark chapter 2, you read how Jesus healed all that came to him. In Acts 5 you read how Peter healed all that came to him. Today you read fraudulent claims from people who ought to be in jail like Benny Hinn, that say he can heal all who come to him. They are frauds and cannot do what they claim. No one today has the power to do either what Jesus did, or what Jesus gave the Apostles the power to do--heal all that came to them, i.e., the gift of healing. Please give evidence of one solitary individual who can heal ALL that comes to him, of actual disabilities, sicknessses, etc.--things like broken bones, TB, AIDS, parapelegics, etc. They don't have that power today. They claim thay have that power. It is odd that the only power they have is to cure something like a headache, things that cannot be verified. Have them walk through the corridors of a hospital with a team of doctors and heal all that are sick. Jesus could do that. The Apostles had the power to do that. But N
NE can do that today. The gift of healing has ceased. You have failied to produce any evidence that it has not. We all have seen God heal in one way or another. That is not the gift of healing. That is God's gracious mercy towards us. Take it one step further. The gift of healing is one of the spiritual gifts. If the gift of healing, one of the sign gifts has ceased, the so have the others, such as tongues. What you have is cheap imitation of the real thing. For the real gift of tongues has ceased. It was supernatural; yours is not.
DHK