What Identifies A Christian As A Baptist?

[Martin Marprelate]

Not sure how you can defend John of Japan's stance that only legitimate Baptist church can give water baptism by immersion

If that is @John of Japan's stance, I do not defend it, but I have the feeling that you are misrepresenting him on several fronts. But he can answer for himself. JoJ and I disagree on several points, but I respect him and count him a brother in Christ. As I said, I was baptized by immersion in a Brethren church, and I was baptized into Christ, not into any denomination or assembly. However, I have since moved to a Baptist church and therefore post on a Baptist site.
But I get the impression that you could start a fight in an empty room, so I will leave you to it.

 

[John of Japan]

Not sure how you can defend John of Japan's stance that only legitimate Baptist church can give water baptism by immersion as that is an unbiblical teaching arguing from the silence of the scriptures and yet doing it in such a way that the RCC & the devil could cry for mimicking their enslaving methodology to a system of works that denies Him.

Never said this, don't believe it.

But the emphasis on water baptism by immersion is in question. John of Japan would like to argue that is what baptism means and yet gave the same references you had where the majority of them is according to my belief tetsifies of the baptism with the Holy Ghost,

Misrepresenting me.

How do you address those on their deathbeds or those dying from an injury that believe in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God has raised Him from the dead?

Have no idea what you are talking about. This has no connection with anything I wrote.

I do not believe that was ever my point nor desire, as I have been water baptized enough including water baptism by immersion in a Baptist church and so the discussion is you guys trying to prove that water baptism can only be done by immersion and according to John of Japan's stance, by a legitimate Baptist church.

Never wrote a thing about some "legitimate Baptist church."

John of Japan likes to call those who do not follow Jesus as never saved and even doubt the ones that fell away were ever saved to begin with. Is that your stance as well?

Never said, this, don't believe it.

Discipleship and salvation has to be separate otherwise by running that race or looking yourself to follow Him as His disciple as a means to obtain salvation, then that becomes a work that denies Him for why He will deny them at the rapture but even though denied by Him, He still abides in them as He will finish His work even in those left behind that were not ready for the Bridegroom.

This has no connection with anything I wrote.

Why are you being dishonest like this about what I wrote?

 

[37818]

It is in the sense that water baptism cannot be separated from the one true baptism of our salvation, which is the immersion into Christ in the spiritual realm.

Every Baptist I know see's water baptism as the symbol of our faith in Christ. By the way, I am a Baptist.

Water baptism is the outward expression of what took place in the heart spiritually when we were saved.

It is the visible evidence of our baptism into Christ, that we have accepted Christ as our Saviour.

Baptist disagree on which baptism the "one baptism" in Ephesians 4:5 refers to. The one Spirit who places us in the one body, 1 Corinthians 12:13 or the symbolic believer's water baptism, Matthew 28:19.

 

[Charlie24]

Baptist disagree on which baptism the "one baptism" in Ephesians 4:5 refers to. The one Spirit who places us in the one body, 1 Corinthians 12:13 or the symbolic believer's water baptism, Matthew 28:19.

Ephesians 4:5 and 1 Cor. 12:13 are both referring to the spiritual baptism, it's the born-again experience.

Matt. 28:19 is the baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, it is water baptism. Anytime you read in the Scripture, "they were baptized in the name of..." that is water baptism.

 

[Charlie24]

Ephesians 4:5 and 1 Cor. 12:13 are both referring to the spiritual baptism, it's the born-again experience.

Matt. 28:19 is the baptism in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, it is water baptism. Anytime you read in the Scripture, "they were baptized in the name of..." that is water baptism.

So you'll have a better understanding, 37818, Paul explains this spiritual baptism in Colossians 2:10-13.

This spiritual baptism has several parts explaining what happens the very moment you place faith in Jesus Christ.

1) It's the "circumcision made with out hands," that Jeremiah referred to
2) It's the "circumcision of Christ."
3) It's being "buried with Him in baptism."
4) It's being "buried into His death"
5) It's being "dead in your sins of the flesh."

"And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

I can help you to understand this even better if you have any questions.

 

[37818]

.

Can you clarify your comment in relation to what I was commenting about? I am not following you.

Romans 6:3, Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Baptist disagree which baptism is ment. The symbolic water or indwelling Spirit.

 

[37818]

So you'll have a better understanding, 37818, Paul explains this spiritual baptism in Colossians 2:10-13.

This spiritual baptism has several parts explaining what happens the very moment you place faith in Jesus Christ.

1) It's the "circumcision made with out hands," that Jeremiah referred to
2) It's the "circumcision of Christ."
3) It's being "buried with Him in baptism."
4) It's being "buried into His death"
5) It's being "dead in your sins of the flesh."

"And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"

I can help you to understand this even better if you have any questions.

Brother you indeed clarified your understanding.
This doesn't change the Baptist disagreement over which baptism is interpreted when the baptism term is used by itself.

 

[Charlie24]

Brother you indeed clarified your understanding.
This doesn't change the Baptist disagreement over which baptism is interpreted when the baptism term is used by itself.

Brother you indeed clarified your understanding.
This doesn't change the Baptist disagreement over which baptism is interpreted when the baptism term is used by itself.

Like I said several times before, we Baptists are a mixed bag, but there is only one truth in Scripture.

 

[37818]

. . . baptism in Colossians 2:10-13.

The "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, . . ." Without hands cannot mean (water) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Romans 6:3-4.
Again Baptist disagree which baptism is being ment, symbolic water or the Spirit.

 

[Charlie24]

The "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, . . ." Without hands cannot mean (water) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Romans 6:3-4.
Again Baptist disagree which baptism is being ment, symbolic water or the Spirit.

Water baptism is the type and shadow of the spiritual baptism.

It's the spiritual baptism in the spiritual realm that actually saves the soul.

In water baptism you are expressing outwardly in water, what actually took place in the spiritual realm, when you were actually saved in the spiritual baptism by faith in Christ.

 

[37818]

Like I said several times before, we Baptists are a mixed bag, but there is only one truth in Scripture.

The simple fact is, when the term baptism is used, Baptist can disagree when symbolic water or the Spirit is ment.

 

[Charlie24]

The simple fact is, when the term baptism is used, Baptist can disagree when symbolic water or the Spirit is ment.

Water baptism and your actual salvation in spiritual baptism go hand in hand, they can't be separated.

This is how Paul can say there is only "one baptism."

That "one baptism" is the spiritual baptism that saved your soul and placed you in Christ, with the water baptism being the symbol of that "one baptism."

 

[37818]

. . spiritual baptism . . .

An imposed concept or terminology sometimes when the text simply reads a baptism.

 

[Charlie24]

An imposed terminology sometimes when the text simply reads a baptism.

There lies the problem with baptism. The folks don't know the difference.

The great theologians of old gave the name "spiritual baptism" for the understanding to be clarified.

 

[37818]

There lies the problem with baptism. The folks don't know the difference.

The great theologians of old gave the name "spiritual baptism" for the understanding to be clarified.

The [New Testament] doctrine of baptisms. Hebrews 6:2a.

Luke 3:16-17, John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

One basic hermeneutic.for baptism. The bare term baptism generally refers to water.

 

[ChristB4Us]

If that is @John of Japan's stance, I do not defend it, but I have the feeling that you are misrepresenting him on several fronts. But he can answer for himself. JoJ and I disagree on several points, but I respect him and count him a brother in Christ. As I said, I was baptized by immersion in a Brethren church, and I was baptized into Christ, not into any denomination or assembly. However, I have since moved to a Baptist church and therefore post on a Baptist site.
But I get the impression that you could start a fight in an empty room, so I will leave you to it.

You can read from the beginning of this thread of the replies from John of Japan and maybe the Lord may use you to lead him to repentance through some other use of scripture.

As for the empty room, even in a full room, only God can cause the increase. The room may be empty but there seems to be many "guests" reading into the forum without joining the forum and so you never know how the Lord is using you or me.

 

[ChristB4Us]

Never said this, don't believe it.

Misrepresenting me.

Have no idea what you are talking about. This has no connection with anything I wrote.

Never wrote a thing about some "legitimate Baptist church."

Never said, this, don't believe it.

This has no connection with anything I wrote.

Why are you being dishonest like this about what I wrote?

Unless somebody removed your replies in this thread, anybody can read, including you, in case you had forgotten you had made such a stance.

Unless you made a gaff but I am sure you meant what you posted and not because of that other posts for how you testified that I had just called you an apostate when I was addressing an issue of what was apostasy from which you had applied to yourself.

 

[ChristB4Us]

.

Romans 6:3, Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Baptist disagree which baptism is ment. The symbolic water or indwelling Spirit.

Okay. I had gotten that part and can understand why not every Baptist here is speaking the same thing. I am of that church that believes some of the scriptures they had used for water baptism by immersion were actually for baptism with the Holy Spirit.

I also understand why some members here seem to think I should not be posting in a Baptist forum because I do not see the emphasis on water baptism having to be done by immersion, but as you say, not every Baptist agrees and so it goes.

 

[John of Japan]

Unless somebody removed your replies in this thread, anybody can read, including you, in case you had forgotten you had made such a stance.

Unless you made a gaff but I am sure you meant what you posted and not because of that other posts for how you testified that I had just called you an apostate when I was addressing an issue of what was apostasy from which you had applied to yourself.

You're the accuser. It is on you to prove what you said I stand for. But you can't do it. I dare you, I defy you to prove one single thing you accuse me of from what I wrote on this thread or anywhere else. You can't.

I know what I wrote, and it had nothing to do with the positions you ascribe to me. You have twisted my words and even attributed to me things I never came near saying.

What you have done is called Biblically "false witness." The Bible has much to say about a false witness, 19 verses with that exact phrase. Look who you are included with by our Lord Jesus Christ: "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies" (Matthew 15:19).

 

[kyredneck]

Water baptism is the type and shadow of the spiritual baptism.

It's not what Peter, the apostle to the circumcision, had to say about it to his audience of Jewish Christians:

20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, [even] baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

For the Jews of 'that generation' water baptism was a profession of faith that 'saved' them from the 'wrath to come' upon 'that generation'.
There indeed was a 'saving' in water baptism.