It starts at Born-again and it NEVER ends! Praise God!!
Will there ever be a time in eternity when you cannot say I am saved??
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What if you did believe you could not loose salvation?
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
- Start date
It starts at Born-again and it NEVER ends! Praise God!!
Will there ever be a time in eternity when you cannot say I am saved??
I just simply cannot buy that a child of God will go out and sin it up because he/she believes in eternal security. I believe the scripture teaches that the grace of God bestowed upon the individual in regeneration is stronger than that and has far more of an effect on the individual than that. A child of God doesn't obey because a carrot is dangled in front of his/her face, that person obeys because God has written His laws in the heart. The child of God has an inward man that delights in the law of God and hates sin. It has nothing to do with eternal security or lack thereof and it has everything to do with the work of God within that individual. You do dishonor to that work when you state that a child of God will live in sin unless we dangle a carrot in front of them.
Amen RAdam!
Since you brought it up.....
Has this writing of the law on the heart and mind been something going on since the fall of Adam?
Hbr 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Hbr 8:7¶For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Hbr 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hbr 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Hbr 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Has this new covenant been in force even before the old covenant? If not, when did it begin?
Where is a free will in this?
glfredrick
New Member
It would appear that it "started" when God predestined some to salvation. It would appear to end when God says that this world is finished.
If you are talking about our human perspective, it would start when we somehow hear the effectual call of God, respond in the power of the Holy Spirit, and end when we are ultimately glorified (at our passing from this world to the next, with the somewhat mysterious period between the end of the age and the start of the New Heaven and New Earth where we receive our final glorification (new body).
It might also be said by some that our salvation includes our becoming evangelists, which they would argue is part of the process of becoming "evangelized."
Do you believe you will always have the free will to sin against God - even in eternity?
THen it wasn't really a "new thing" like God said?
Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Did God do it before as well as after according to your pov?
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glfredrick
New Member
Do we truly have a free will in that regard? I'm absolutely sure that we'll not solve the centuries old conflict between Arminian and Calvinist perspectives here and now, but I see that the Scriptures say that we are "dead in our sin and tresspasses..." and that we are "slaves to sin..." until we become "slaves to Christ."
I don't see a lot of room for free human expression between those concepts, save that we are morally culpable.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
No "robots in heaven".
God said "The wages of sin is death" in Romans 6. Turns out "that is true".
The way that God motiviates a free will sinless universe to "not sin" and come to right decisions - is by presenting compelling evidence.
Thus the Job 1 and Job 2 council meeting in heaven reviews "evidence" to reach conclusions.
in Christ,
Bob
That's an interesting pov. Your the first one I have encountered that believes the possibility to sin will be eternal.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
As it turns out - robots do not rise above the level of robots.
The Angels in heaven were not robots - 1/3 chose rebellion -- 2/3 chose loyalty to God. The fact that the 2/3's did not choose rebellion was not because they had been turned into robots - it is that they chose not to sin.
Which means they COULD have chosen to sin - but DID not.
in Christ,
Bob
The Angels in heaven were not robots - 1/3 chose rebellion -- 2/3 chose loyalty to God. The fact that the 2/3's did not choose rebellion was not because they had been turned into robots - it is that they chose not to sin.
Which means they COULD have chosen to sin - but DID not.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Did God "allow" angels in his presence that had the "potential" to choose?
Did God "allow" angels in his presence that chose eventually to sin?
Hint - Lucifer is called the "covering Cherub" in scripture.
All the Angels had choice.
All of them have "potential".
At no point does scripture say that Angels are no longer allowed in heaven because "they have choice" or because "they have potential" to make a bad choice a million years from today.
in Christ,
Bob
It was new in that it was hidden previously, but now it is openly manifested.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Turns out -- I did
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1582478&postcount=12
My answer shows what I would do if I suddenly "BELIEVED" that OSAS was true no matter what the Bible says to the contrary.
the point remains.
BTW I also answered your own what-if question as well
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1582480&postcount=14
in Christ,
Bob
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
My answer to your post was posted here -
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1582478&postcount=12
But it says God will do this AFTER. It does not say "Hey, guess what? I have been writing my laws on your hearts and mind for quite awhile now, did anybody know this?"
1. You would serve the Lord with joy.
2. You would have no fear.
3. You would sleep well at night.
4. You would thank God for His grace.
5. You would have peace.
6. You would know the truth.
Tom Butler
New Member
Let me take a crack at the OP question.
If I assume that I can't lose my salvation, it is entirely reasonable that I very well could also conclude that my eternal destiny is safe regardless of my behavior. Therefore, why could I not continue the same sinning which ruled my life before salvation? And actually enjoy it?
However, this view also appears to ignore the work of the Holy Spirit and its transforming power. When one is brought under that power, his entire view of sin, his entire attitude toward God changes. His desires are changed. His heart is changed. He is given a new nature. He now sees sin as God sees it, and is repulsed by it.
But, he is not always successful. His old nature is still there, and wars with his new nature, as Paul described in Romans. But now he has the power of God on his side.
All of us who claim the name of Jesus as Savior and Lord identify with Paul's dilemma. But, with Paul, we say thanks be to God who gives us the victory.
If I assume that I can't lose my salvation, it is entirely reasonable that I very well could also conclude that my eternal destiny is safe regardless of my behavior. Therefore, why could I not continue the same sinning which ruled my life before salvation? And actually enjoy it?
However, this view also appears to ignore the work of the Holy Spirit and its transforming power. When one is brought under that power, his entire view of sin, his entire attitude toward God changes. His desires are changed. His heart is changed. He is given a new nature. He now sees sin as God sees it, and is repulsed by it.
But, he is not always successful. His old nature is still there, and wars with his new nature, as Paul described in Romans. But now he has the power of God on his side.
All of us who claim the name of Jesus as Savior and Lord identify with Paul's dilemma. But, with Paul, we say thanks be to God who gives us the victory.