What if....

[timdabap]

When you get to heaven, you see there the likes of Hitler, or Mussolini, or Stalin, or Genghis Khan, or Attila the Hun, or maybe in more modern times, the likes of Vladimir Putin, or Ted Bundy.
Would you walk up to Jesus and say, "stop the bus, please, I'm getting off", or something like that ?
And then you look down on those in the lake of fire, and you see, Mother Teresa, or Gandhi, or somebody who you recognize as a Nobel Prize winner for some humanitarian efforts he or she did ?
Would you ask Jesus, why are they there ?

 

[37818]

Isaiah 5;20 comes to mind, ". . . Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! . . . ."

 

[tyndale1946]

When you get to heaven, you see there the likes of Hitler, or Mussolini, or Stalin, or Genghis Khan, or Attila the Hun, or maybe in more modern times, the likes of Vladimir Putin, or Ted Bundy.
Would you walk up to Jesus and say, "stop the bus, please, I'm getting off", or something like that ?
And then you look down on those in the lake of fire, and you see, Mother Teresa, or Gandhi, or somebody who you recognize as a Nobel Prize winner for some humanitarian efforts he or she did ?
Would you ask Jesus, why are they there ?

I would not ask that question... I would say LORD you know what you're doing... Why am I here?... Then I remember Matthew 25, when the LORD separates the sheep from the goats they were not there because of what they did for the LORD as some think... They were there because of what they did for others... Know any people like that?... Showing the love of God in their hearts?... I know a lot of people like that!... From the cradle to the grave... HE WILL SAVE!... Brother Glen

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 

[John of Japan]

When you get to heaven, you see there the likes of Hitler, or Mussolini, or Stalin, or Genghis Khan, or Attila the Hun, or maybe in more modern times, the likes of Vladimir Putin, or Ted Bundy.
Would you walk up to Jesus and say, "stop the bus, please, I'm getting off", or something like that ?
And then you look down on those in the lake of fire, and you see, Mother Teresa, or Gandhi, or somebody who you recognize as a Nobel Prize winner for some humanitarian efforts he or she did ?
Would you ask Jesus, why are they there ?

Have you stopped beating your wife yet??

But if Gandhi and Mother Teresa are in Heaven, then the soteriology of the Bible is mistaken. Just saying.

 

[SavedByGrace]

When you get to heaven, you see there the likes of Hitler, or Mussolini, or Stalin, or Genghis Khan, or Attila the Hun, or maybe in more modern times, the likes of Vladimir Putin, or Ted Bundy.
Would you walk up to Jesus and say, "stop the bus, please, I'm getting off", or something like that ?
And then you look down on those in the lake of fire, and you see, Mother Teresa, or Gandhi, or somebody who you recognize as a Nobel Prize winner for some humanitarian efforts he or she did ?
Would you ask Jesus, why are they there ?

Luke 13

Now there were some present at the same time who told him about the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way. 4 Or those eighteen, on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them; do you think that they were worse offenders than all the men who dwell in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way.”

 

[tyndale1946]

Luke 13

Now there were some present at the same time who told him about the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way. 4 Or those eighteen, on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them; do you think that they were worse offenders than all the men who dwell in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way.”

I heard this from a minister way back in the day... And he said if it were possible for a child of God ever to end up in hell... He would be the happiest one there because God is with him but on the same vein, if it were possible that a child of Hell would ever end up in Heaven... He would be the most miserable one there because that's not where he wants to be... Food for thought... Brother Glen

 

[SavedByGrace]

I heard this from a minister way back in the day... And he said if it were possible for a child of God ever to end up in hell... He would be the happiest one there because God is with him but on the same vein, if it were possible that a child of Hell would ever end up in Heaven... He would be the most miserable one there because that's not where he wants to be... Food for thought... Brother Glen

We do not know for certain, if any of those mentioned in the OP, were not as the thief on the cross, who repented and believed at the last minute, at the point of death! We can never assume that because a person is very wicked, that they are beyond the saving Grace of the Lord! It is very possible that there will be in heaven those who did not expect to be there.

There cannot be any "lost, unsaved" person in heaven

 

[timdabap]

Luke 13

Now there were some present at the same time who told him about the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered them, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way. 4 Or those eighteen, on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them; do you think that they were worse offenders than all the men who dwell in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way.”

and the answer is ......... ?

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

I heard this from a minister way back in the day... And he said if it were possible for a child of God ever to end up in hell... He would be the happiest one there because God is with him but on the same vein, if it were possible that a child of Hell would ever end up in Heaven... He would be the most miserable one there because that's not where he wants to be... Food for thought... Brother Glen

A few years ago I was having a discussion with a Methodist that wasn't quite orthodox, and at some point in the conversation I brought up the point that if theoretically my Lord told me that my "mission" after death was to spend time in Hell for some reason or another, that it would be my Christian duty to submit to His will and joyfully do it because time in Hell as a servant of Christ doing His will is infinitely better than any time at all in Heaven without Christ.

Obviously the Bible makes it clear that kind of thing doesn't happen, but the principles behind it still stand.

 

[timdabap]

Have you stopped beating your wife yet??

What does that mean ?
Not very sharp you know, especially at 75....

But if Gandhi and Mother Teresa are in Heaven, then the soteriology of the Bible is mistaken. Just saying.

But, what if, John....
Obviously, I am waiting for the soteriology of whoever replies, because there are various soteriologies in various seminaries and which various ministers hold to and teach, and all of them say it's what the Bible teaches.

 

[timdabap]

I heard this from a minister way back in the day... And he said if it were possible for a child of God ever to end up in hell... He would be the happiest one there because God is with him but on the same vein, if it were possible that a child of Hell would ever end up in Heaven... He would be the most miserable one there because that's not where he wants to be... Food for thought... Brother Glen

(text coloring mine....timdabap)
which is why I object to the thought, even to the mere thought, that Christ included Judas, the traitor, among His people for whom He was to shed His blood here in time.

 

[timdabap]

Isaiah 5;20 comes to mind, ". . . Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! . . . ."

and your answer is .........?

 

[tyndale1946]

We do not know for certain, if any of those mentioned in the OP, were not as the thief on the cross, who repented and believed at the last minute, at the point of death! We can never assume that because a person is very wicked, that they are beyond the saving Grace of the Lord! It is very possible that there will be in heaven those who did not expect to be there.

There cannot be any "lost, unsaved" person in heaven

Oh you and I have evidence that is where we are bound, its called faith but until I'm standing in the presence of the Lord, where is the reality?... See you think since you have joined, you did something to get saved... And have to say in that mindset, if you slip, you're not, if you slip in life are you saved?... And the way I look at the thief on the cross, his heart was changed by God, allowing him to believe and repent... He had to know who he believed in before he could repent... When he said Jesus, Lord he knew who he was, now he can repent... Remember me, when thou comest into thy kingdom... I hear people ask me, well why didn't he save the other one?... I don't know!... Ask God!... Brother Glen

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight)

8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

[Dr. Bob]

I retired now between Milwaukee/Madison, equidistant from where Jeffery Dahmer murdered and where he, in turn, was murdered in prison. No one I knew shed a tear when he was caught, convicted, and imprisoned. No one blinked when fellow inmates murdered him. Except Curt Booth from an Oklahoma Church who prayed that God would give repentance and faith to this wretch and save him from the wrath to come.

“On the great resurrection day, I’m expecting to see him right along there with Abraham, David, Isaac, James, John and all the saints that have lived right up to the modern day,” Booth said. Booth usually ministered to inmates at prisons closer to home. But in April 1994, he caught a glimpse of Dahmer on television. Dahmer mentioned in that interview that he wished he could somehow “find a little peace,” Booth said.

The Oklahoma church member sensed what he considered the hurt in Dahmer’s voice and eyes. Booth said he thought: “I know somebody who can give you that peace. His name is Jesus Christ.” Booth sent Dahmer a Bible correspondence course teaching the steps to salvation. Dahmer mailed the answers back and thanked Booth for the course.

Dahmer later wrote. “This prison does not have a baptismal tank and the prison chaplain is not sure if he can find someone now to bring a tank in and baptize me? I’ve taken all the other steps.” A Madison, Wisconsin. pastor set up weekly Bible lessons with Dahmer to be sure of his conversion, then baptized him on May 10, 1994. Pastor Ratcliff later shared that Dahmer told him he had been fearful of the minister’s visit. “He dreaded that I might say, ‘No, you’re too evil. You’re too sinful.’”

 

[Salty]

Dr Bob - that is quite a testimony.

I'm just wondering if Timdabap is being a bit facetious.
He does call himself a Baptist- but unless his question was facetious - I do wonder about his doctrine.

 

[Salty]

John of Japan asked: "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

You mean that you have never heard that before????

What does that mean ?
Not very sharp you know, especially at 75.....

This explanation from Quora explanis it very well!

Because people often demand you answer questions yes or no.

IF your answer to “have you stopped beating your wife” is yes, it means that you admit to having beaten your wife in the past.

IF your answer is no, it means you admit to that AND that you continue to do so.

If you have not ever beaten your wife, then neither yes nor no is an acceptable answer.

This is what is known as a “complex question” and such questions are actually quite common.

Your response “I’ve never beaten my wife” is neither “yes” nor “no” which means the example question has proven itself; it showed you that there are questions you can’t answer “yes” or “no” and give the information requested.

Hope that helps

 

[timdabap]

Dr Bob - that is quite a testimony.

I'm just wondering if Timdabap is being a bit facetious.
He does call himself a Baptist- but unless his question was facetious - I do wonder about his doctrine.

Feel free to tell me what it is about my doctrine you wonder about.

 

[timdabap]

John of Japan asked: "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

You mean that you have never heard that before????




This explanation from Quora explanis it very well!

Because people often demand you answer questions yes or no.

IF your answer to “have you stopped beating your wife” is yes, it means that you admit to having beaten your wife in the past.

IF your answer is no, it means you admit to that AND that you continue to do so.

If you have not ever beaten your wife, then neither yes nor no is an acceptable answer.

This is what is known as a “complex question” and such questions are actually quite common.

Your response “I’ve never beaten my wife” is neither “yes” nor “no” which means the example question has proven itself; it showed you that there are questions you can’t answer “yes” or “no” and give the information requested.

Hope that helps

No, I've never heard that one before.
So thank you for the explanation.
However, the question posed in 'what if' is not unanswerable.

 

[Salty]

Feel free to tell me what it is about my doctrine you wonder about.

Well for starters. that you think Miss Teresa, should be in Heaven.
NOT by works of Righteousness......
and then she said things such as " “If there be no God, there can be no soul. If there be no soul then, Jesus, You also are not true.”

 

[SavedByGrace]

and the answer is ......... ?

it is explained in the passage!