What is an Arminian?

[William C]

Originally posted by npetreley:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Brother Bill:
The Bible also tells us to love our enemies and to do good to those who hate us. Yet Calvinist teach that God hates his enemies and throws them into eternal torture without ever giving them an opportunity to be saved. Now that is a contradiction!

It is? I always thought a contradiction was something like God telling us in one place to love our enemies and telling us in another to hate our enemies. I didn't know that God had to do exactly what He tells us to do. Your recent posts seem to know an awful lot about what God should do. Maybe you should tell Him so He can be obedient to your doctrines. </font>[/QUOTE]

Nicky, you make me giggle.

You just got through comparing the phrases "God loves the world" and "Do not love the world," and conclude that Arminians have a false view of God's love for all humanity. Eventhough these verses aren't even talking about the same objects of love nor the one doing the loving. God's loving people has nothing to do with God's command for us not to love the sinful things of the world.

In rebuttal, I compared the phrases, "Love you enemies and do good to those who hate you" and Calvinism's teaching which says, "God hates his enemies and does not do good to them." This teaching make God out to be a hypocrite. Where does God say, "Do as I say, not as I do."

All mankind is an enemy of God and he does good to all mankind by providing salvation to them all through faith. He is the perfect example and model for us to follow. When we are kind to our enemies some of them will receive our kindness and become our friends, others of them will reject our kindness out of the stubbornness of their own hearts. (sound fimiliar)

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bill:
Nicky, you make me giggle.

You just got through comparing the phrases "God loves the world" and "Do not love the world," and conclude that Arminians have a false view of God's love for all humanity.

Mr. Bill, or whatever your name is, you make me sick. I concluded nothing of the kind. I would appreciate it if you would stop lying about what I say.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Brother Bill:
This teaching make God out to be a hypocrite. Where does God say, "Do as I say, not as I do."

Here's one:

Exodus 20:16 "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

1 Kings:22:22 The LORD said to him, "In what way?' So he said, "I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' And the LORD said, "You shall persuade him, and also prevail. Go out and do so.' 23 Therefore look! The LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the LORD has declared disaster against you."

God cannot lie, and He disapproves of lying, but He told the spirit to go through with his plan to lie. No doubt you'll twist this point, but it clearly shows that something that appears to be a contradiction or hypocrisy may not actually be a contradiction or hypocrisy.

Here's another:

7 They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?"
8 He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery."

God (through Moses) permitted divorce because man was unable to live up to the righteous standards of God.

The point is simple. Telling us to love our enemies and then hating His enemies may not be contradictory at all, even if it appears to be to you. Heck, given that you can draw dramatic conclusions about soteriology in Ephesians 1 based on a single line in Ephesians 3 tells me how much stock to put in how things appear to you.

 

[Frogman]

The more of Scripture I read, the more I am Convinced the Calvinistic methods used to plead for sinners is not Biblical.

Christ said in John 10 that He knew his sheep and they knew his voice and they follow him.

Christ said to Peter in John 21 If you love me, feed my sheep, Nowhere did Christ say to 'get them saved' or to 'save' them. He did not say this because he knew the work of salvation was completed on the Cross; God did not then nor does He now view the elect as any thing but Justified in the Blood of His Son.

Now, you will bring Matt. 28 and the commission of the church at me; bring it strong, because I have been dealing with this for some weeks and yet find nowhere in this commission an authority given for any to 'get people saved' nor to go that they 'may' be 'saved.'

This post is an answer to the post 'describing' the message of a Calvinist in using Arminian language to plead to 'sinners' to come to God.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Christ said in John 10 that He knew his sheep and they knew his voice and they follow him.

How does one become a sheep? One hears the word of God, believes in Jesus and is then enabled to hear his voice, but not all follow Him. Those who do follow Him are His sheep.

Christ said to Peter in John 21 If you love me, feed my sheep, Nowhere did Christ say to 'get them saved' or to 'save' them. He did not say this because he knew the work of salvation was completed on the Cross; God did not then nor does He now view the elect as any thing but Justified in the Blood of His Son.

And Whosoever believeth in Him, are washed in that Precious Blood

Now, you will bring Matt. 28 and the commission of the church at me; bring it strong, because I have been dealing with this for some weeks and yet find nowhere in this commission an authority given for any to 'get people saved' nor to go that they 'may' be 'saved.'

What do you think "make disciples" means? It is not a matter of 'tag, you're it', but rather a matter of persuading unbelievers who are not "adherents" to the teachings of the Christ to become believers who are adherents of those teachings. Thus changing the demeanor of the one so persuaded.

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by Yelsew:
Thus changing the demeanor of the one so persuaded.

How does one change his demeanor, according to your viewpoint, when the Bible teaches we are born in sin and go astray from the womb? Exactly what power do you think man possesses that enables him to something without the work of God taking place first in his heart?

 

[Frogman]

How does one become a sheep? One hears the word of God, believes in Jesus and is then enabled to hear his voice, but not all follow Him. Those who do follow Him are His sheep.

This isn't even similar to what Jesus said.

What do you think "make disciples" means? It is not a matter of 'tag, you're it', but rather a matter of persuading unbelievers who are not "adherents" to the teachings of the Christ to become believers who are adherents of those teachings. Thus changing the demeanor of the one so persuaded.

Disciples are students; I did not say do not teach, I said we have no authority to mis-teach these. We only have an authority to declare the Gospel and to let the Holy Spirit call those who are called.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

Frogman, your definition of disciple is much too narrow!

disciple, n., v
Noun:
1. Relig.
a. one of the 12 personal followers of Christ.
b. one of the 70 followers sent forth by Christ. Luke 10:1.
c. any other professed follower of Christ in His lifetime.
2. any follower of Christ.
3. (cap.) a member of the Disciples of Christ.
4. a person who is a pupil or an adherent of the doctrines of another; follower: a disciple of Freud.
verb transitive:
5. Archaic. to convert into a disciple.
6. Obs. to teach; train.

 

[William C]

Nick,

My question was: Where does God say, "Do as I say, not as I do."

You gave me examples of God allowing man to do sinful things not of God doing sinful things--this because they were hardened no less. Silly Nick, tricks are for kids.

And I noticed that you didn't bother addressing the argument that you linked John 3:16 to I John 2 when the only thing they have in common is the word "world" in order to condemn the Arminian view of God's love for all people.

 

[Frogman]

convert

What do you believe this means?

I can show you...


Jam 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;


I have put the word in italics for you.

G1994

epistrephō
ep-ee-stref'-o
From G1909 and G4762; to revert (literally, figuratively or morally): - come (go) again, convert, (re-) turn (about, again).

G1909

epi
ep-ee'
A primary preposition properly meaning superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of distribution [with the genitive case], that is, over, upon, etc.; of rest (with the dative case) at, on, etc.; of direction (with the accusative case) towards, upon, etc.: - about (the times), above, after, against, among, as long as (touching), at, beside, X have charge of, (be-, [where-]) fore, in (a place, as much as, the time of, -to), (because) of, (up-) on (behalf of) over, (by, for) the space of, through (-out), (un-) to (-ward), with. In compounds it retains essentially the same import, at, upon, etc. (literally or figuratively).

G4762

strephō
stref'-o
Strengthened from the base of G5157; to twist, that is, turn quite around or reverse (literally or figuratively): - convert, turn (again, back again, self, self about).

G5157
τροπή
tropē
trop-ay'
From an apparently primary word τρέπω trepō (to turn); a turn (“trope”), that is, revolution (figuratively variation): - turning.

What did you think this word meant? Now what do you know convert to mean?

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

[Yelsew]

I hope you are not attempting to say that "convert" and "revert" mean the same thing.

Convert means change from an old position to a new position. Revert means to return to a previously held position.

 

[Frogman]

turn (again, back again, self, self about).

here is the plain meaning of the word, it is even used in this manner by Christ in speaking to Peter in reference to the experience Peter was about to undergo.

I'm glad you were able to realize the true meaning of this word.

God Bless.
Bro. dallas