What is Babylon?

[Mark Corbett]

Babylon is the main topic of a little over 2 chapters in Revelation. There are many opinions about what Babylon refers to. Here are a few questions:

1. What do you think Babylon refers to in Revelation?
2. If you think that Babylon refers to something/somewhere in the past or in the future, are there any things in the world today that affect our lives that are least similar to Babylon as described in Revelation? What practical applications are there for Christians today?
3. Feel free to share your thoughts about my own take on these issues (see below).

A very short, partial, simplified summary of my view as shared in the video below:

Babylon is the seductive, alluring element of the Devil's war against Christians that works together with the persecuting element (the Beast) and the deceiving element (the False Prophet). There may be many forms of Babylon throughout history and around the world. One form that is prevalent today combines elements of the entertainment industry and the sex industry: pornography. It is worldwide and doing terrible damage to people's hearts, minds, relationships, and families. Like Babylon as described by John, it is attractive in some ways, but leads to damage and eventually to God's wrath.

My 43 minute sermon-video that I published this morning on this same topic is below. It includes more background information and explanation and detail.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The world religions and some Christian denominations that are opposed to the Lord and the Holy Bible. And Jesus Christ being the ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN

 

[AustinC]

I will answer the question. I won't watch a YouTube video.

What is Babylon? Babylon is symbolic language for the social desire humans have to rule over creation and usurp God.

Here's the verse that expresses the reason I believe this.
Genesis 11:4
Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth.”

Christians are in opposition to Babylon precisely because we worship God not human accomplishment.

Any idea that promotes a utopian world created by man is Babylon.

 

[Mark Corbett]

The world religions and some Christian denominations that are opposed to the Lord and the Holy Bible. And Jesus Christ being the ONLY WAY TO HEAVEN

I can see a connection to Babylon in false religions and false versions of Christianity. Yet, this seems to fit a little more precisely with what Revelation calls "the false prophet." But since the beast (evil governments that persecute Christians), the false prophet (I think you described this well), and Babylon all work together at least until near the very end, I certainly would not say you are wrong.

 

[Mark Corbett]

I will answer the question. I won't watch a YouTube video.
. . . .

I don't expect everyone (and probably not even most people) who reply to watch a 40 minute video! That's why I included the brief written summary of the content of the video. I included the video for anyone who wants a little more detail and explanation for my own view. God Bless You.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I don't expect everyone (and probably not even most people) who reply to watch a 40 minute video! That's why I included the brief written summary of the content of the video. I included the video for anyone who wants a little more detail and explanation for my own view. God Bless You.

I like watching videos, can you do an abridged version

 

[Mark Corbett]

I like watching videos, can you do an abridged version

If you are already fairly familiar with different views about Revelation (Preterist, Idealist, Futurist), I think you could jump in at about the 33 minute point and just watch the last 10 minutes and get the main points (but the earlier material is, I think, helpful). I know 43 minutes is a bit long. Perhaps you might want to watch it in little chunks and skip past parts that you don't find helpful? I might make a shorter version at some point. That is actually a good suggestion. Making a good short video takes more time than most people realize!

 

[SavedByGrace]

If you are already fairly familiar with different views about Revelation (Preterist, Idealist, Futurist), I think you could jump in at about the 33 minute point and just watch the last 10 minutes and get the main points (but the earlier material is, I think, helpful). I know 43 minutes is a bit long. Perhaps you might want to watch it in little chunks and skip past parts that you don't find helpful? I might make a shorter version at some point. That is actually a good suggestion. Making a good short video takes more time than most people realize!

Thanks. I will watch at the time you suggested

 

[Lodic]

Interesting topic. I've been on the road, so I haven't had a chance to watch the video yet, but I plan to tonight. Thanks for sharing.

What do you think Babylon refers to in Revelation?

As a Preterist, I will share my views. I believe Babylon in the Book of Revelation is Apostate Jerusalem. Revelation 17:2-6 speaks of the harlotry of Babylon. Israel is God's wife, so only Jerusalem could commit adultery. It makes no more sense to assume Babylon is Rome than to believe it was any other pagan nation. Revelation 17:18 tells us that the woman is "the great city which reigns over the kings of the earth". The Two Witnesses were slain in the "great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified" (Revelation 11:8).

Getting back to 17:8, you may be asking, when did Jerusalem ever reign over the kings of the earth? The passage is properly understood as the city which rules over the rulers of the land (of Israel). As the capital city of Israel, this fits.

If you think that Babylon refers to something/somewhere in the past or in the future, are there any things in the world today that affect our lives that are least similar to Babylon as described in Revelation? What practical applications are there for Christians today?

This definitely applies to us today. Just as the 1st Century Christians were admonished to "come out of her, My people", we have the same warning. Today's church has changed the Gospel. Too many churches are little more than a social club. Sin is accepted and even embraced in the Church. Just as St. John uses the example of sexual impurity to describe Babylon, today's churches are filled with unmarried couples who live together. Some churches even embrace a certain lifestyle to the point where they allow those actively living in sin to join their church. Don't misunderstand me here. All sinners must be welcome in the church, but they shouldn't be allowed to join unless they have repented of their sinful lifestyle.

 

[kyredneck]

Babylon in the Book of Revelation is Apostate Jerusalem.

Spot on.

 

[AustinC]

Babylon is much deeper than Jerusalem. It goes back to the tower of Babel, before Israel existed. It is not just a city in some exact location.

While there is dual prophetic fulfillment in many areas, the preterist theory is short sited and void of the wholeness of God's word. Such a narrow view is not warranted in scripture.

 

[Lodic]

Babylon is much deeper than Jerusalem. It goes back to the tower of Babel, before Israel existed. It is not just a city in some exact location.

While there is dual prophetic fulfillment in many areas, the preterist theory is short sited and void of the wholeness of God's word. Such a narrow view is not warranted in scripture.

While Babylon does historically go back to the Tower of Babel, I believe the Revelation reference is specific to Jerusalem. The point is not just that it's a city in Israel, but what it represents. The destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was a judgment on Apostate Israel.

 

[kyredneck]

While Babylon does historically go back to the Tower of Babel, I believe the Revelation reference is specific to Jerusalem. The point is not just that it's a city in Israel, but what it represents. The destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was a judgment on Apostate Israel.

What is meant i 1Peter 5:13 | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com)

 

[AustinC]

While Babylon does historically go back to the Tower of Babel, I believe the Revelation reference is specific to Jerusalem. The point is not just that it's a city in Israel, but what it represents. The destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was a judgment on Apostate Israel.

I would consider dual prophecy. Certainly, Revelation is purposeful for the seven churches and what they will experience, so I don't discount preterism out of hand. But, I believe, like the exodus from Egypt, the Revelation has a bigger foreshadowing in time that cannot be discounted.

 

[Mark Corbett]

I myself think that Babylon could be like the antichrist, with their being both a final, biggest version, but many smaller (but still truly terrible) versions throughout history:

CSB17 1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. By this we know that it is the last hour.

I am most concerned with manifestation of Babylon in the world today that seek to allure us away from faithfulness to Christ.

 

[Lodic]

I would consider dual prophecy. Certainly, Revelation is purposeful for the seven churches and what they will experience, so I don't discount preterism out of hand. But, I believe, like the exodus from Egypt, the Revelation has a bigger foreshadowing in time that cannot be discounted.

Fair enough. I am not here to convince anyone to switch to the preterist view, and you certainly have logical arguments for your view.

 

[agedman]

According to the late Dr. Tousaint of DTS, in his class on Revelation, he considered Babylon was Two different presentations. That of a spiritual Babylon and that of the political Babylon.

I have been studying his thinking on this as I review the Scriptures, and he may be right.

Also, there is a case that the original Babylon type armies will again come from the Iraq/Iran area as if a Muslim horde to be used at will by the antiChrist to search out and destroy opposition(s).

 

[agedman]

For me, the preterist view is of very little value, and can lead one from taking the prophetic verses concerning the future in their veracity. The same occurs with the a-mill and post-mill views.

I also do not agree with the presentation of some pre-mill views, but place the rapture is shown in the Revelation 14, the last portion of the chapter.

Has anyone noticed the total silence of any prophecy concerning what happens when the seven thunders sound (Rev. 10)?

Also, concerning the Revelation, it is NOT one continuous revelation.

Rather, John is told to write at the opening of the book and then, after the middle of the book, to again write the prophecy.

Revelation is not some mysterious book, but a writing that should be read, reread, and scheduled to be read regularly in the churches. If people read it as many times as they read the letters of Paul or the Gospels, they might have a much clearer understanding of the presentation and not chase after inaccurate presentations and plot rapture times or who might be the antichrist.

 

[Aaron]

Babylon is the Egypt of the Latter Days. It is simply worldly pride and idolatry.

 

[Lodic]

There may be many forms of Babylon throughout history and around the world. One form that is prevalent today combines elements of the entertainment industry and the sex industry: pornography. It is worldwide and doing terrible damage to people's hearts, minds, relationships, and families. Like Babylon as described by John, it is attractive in some ways, but leads to damage and eventually to God's wrath.

Let me compliment you on the video. Well done, Brother. I thought you summarized the different views of Babylon pretty well. As you pointed out, we can take the same approach to application whether one is a preterist or a futurist. Hollywood certainly is a type of Babylon, where the movies and TV shows target our values. We've become desensitized to sexual sins. Family values are mocked. We've gone from "Father Knows Best" to "American Dad". Well, I'm preaching to the choir.

How do we come out of this aspect of Babylon? Maybe a good start is to filter what we allow in our homes. That doesn't necessarily mean only watching reruns of "Leave it to Beaver" and "Lassie", but to at least think carefully about the content of our entertainment. As St. Paul says in Philippians 4:8, "whatever things are true, whatever things are honorable, whatever things are right, whatever things are pure, whatever things are pleasing, whatever things are commendable, if there is any excellence of character and if anything praiseworthy, think about these things". That provides a pretty good standard for our TV, movies, music.