What is Babylon?

[37818]

Revelation 17:9-10,". . . And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, . . ."
Egypt.
Assyria.
Babylon.
Meds and Persia.
Greece.
And at John's writing,
Rome.

 

[robycop3]

In the context of the Book of Revelation, 1st Century Apostate Israel was the harlot who was involved with the Roman Empire.

Nothing to do with the harlot of Rev. 17 who will try to control the beast & his empire.

 

[Mark Corbett]

. . . . The beast, He states is a government system, In reality the beast is a world leader. The man of sin he is also called. The final gentile ruler. . . .

Do you believe the beast is the same as the antichrist? Do you believe there is more than one antichrist?

 

[robycop3]

Do you believe the beast is the same as the antichrist? Do you believe there is more than one antichrist?

"The" beast & "The" antichrist will be the same man. And everyone not FOR Christ is an antichrist.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you believe the beast is the same as the antichrist? Do you believe there is more than one antichrist?

I believer nebachadnezar was the head of Gold. Or the first beast (the lion)

I believe the final beast of this 4 beast gentile kingdoms will be the final beast, or the man of sin. The son of perdition, the antichrist himself.

I believe as John said, there are many antichrists,, But in revelation we see the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. As they are defeated by Christ himself.

We also must remember, The harlot is a threat to the beast himself. So he is the one who destroys the Harlot

I think this can give us a possible clue as to who the harlot is also.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Revelation 17:9-10,". . . And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, . . ."
Egypt.
Assyria.
Babylon.
Meds and Persia.
Greece.
And at John's writing,
Rome.

Amen

And one is yet to come at that time.

I believe this will also be rome, The final form of the fourth beast, the toes of Iron and Clay.

 

[percho]

Babylon was apostate Jerusalem...the harlot, in contrast to the bride.

Would it be fair to say Babylon and Jerusalem have existed from the foundation of the world as darkness and light? Out of darkness Light to shine?

 

[Lodic]

Yes AD 70 was in accordance with Lev 26.

WHat specific reference in revelation are you speaking of? Babylon the mother of harlots?

if so why do you think that is jerusalem?

Yes, the mother of harlots from Rev 17 & 18.
I think this is the same as the "great city" where Jesus was crucified (Rev 11:8-9). Just as Israel was guilty of spiritual adultery and adultery several times in the Old Testament, she was guilty of having prostituted herself to the Roman Empire.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Would it be fair to say Babylon and Jerusalem have existed from the foundation of the world as darkness and light? Out of darkness Light to shine?

If we wanted to use types. I guess we could say this (literal jerusalem or the place did not exist before the flood)

But I believe we run into issue when we try to take prophecy, and make them types. It hinders from the purpose God gave prophetic utterance in the first place. Which is to prove he is the one true God.

 

[Lodic]

Nothing to do with the harlot of Rev. 17 who will try to control the beast & his empire.

Rev 17 & 18 are all about the harlot. This harlot is the same as Jerusalem, AKA the great city which is mystically called Sodom & Egypt (Rev 11:8-9).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, the mother of harlots from Rev 17 & 18.
I think this is the same as the "great city" where Jesus was crucified (Rev 11:8-9). Just as Israel was guilty of spiritual adultery and adultery several times in the Old Testament, she was guilty of having prostituted herself to the Roman Empire.

Look at what you wrote

Israel, or jerusalem, was guilty of spiritual adultry, I agree 100 %, But she was not the great harlot she cheated with. She was the cheating wife or cheating husband.. Not the harlot itself.

Israel played the harlot for many many years. From Baal worship to even following the greek and roman Gods. To them their true husband was only one of many Gods.

The harlot was all of those Gods themselves..

if you go back to babylon. You can actually trace the babylon pagan rights and priesthood all the way to rome itself. Including Ceaser who was the Pontifus Maximus, or the high priest of the harlot system,

 

[Lodic]

I disagree,

Jerusalem was the elect bride. who played the harlot with the roman empire.

The roman empire and their polytheistic gods were the mother harlot.

It's because Jerusalem was the Bride who played the harlot with the Roman Empire that I believe she is the harlot in question.

The Roman Empire could not be the harlot because the harlot was guilty of adultery. Rome was never God's wife.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's because Jerusalem was the Bride who played the harlot with the Roman Empire that I believe she is the harlot in question.

But that would make her the cheating bride, not the MOTHER of harlots.

Remember, babylon is the mother of harlots.

The Roman Empire could not be the harlot because the harlot was guilty of adultery. Rome was never God's wife.

Your right, it is not the Roman Empire, It is the pagan religious system from which the Roman Empire ruled.

Rev 17 and 18, the characteristic of the mother of harlots, can you show me where jerusalem today fits any of these characteristics?

 

[Lodic]

Look at what you wrote

Israel, or jerusalem, was guilty of spiritual adultry, I agree 100 %, But she was not the great harlot she cheated with. She was the cheating wife or cheating husband.. Not the harlot itself.

Israel played the harlot for many many years. From Baal worship to even following the greek and roman Gods. To them their true husband was only one of many Gods.

The harlot was all of those Gods themselves..

if you go back to babylon. You can actually trace the babylon pagan rights and priesthood all the way to rome itself. Including Ceaser who was the Pontifus Maximus, or the high priest of the harlot system,

Hosea chapter 2 gives one of the clearest examples of when Israel played the harlot in the OT. I believe that we might be getting into a matter of semantics. If my wife cheats on me, she is playing the harlot. The man she is cheating with is also playing the harlot with her. Maybe I am just a little dense. Definitely would not be the first time.

 

[Lodic]

But that would make her the cheating bride, not the MOTHER of harlots.

Remember, babylon is the mother of harlots.



Your right, it is not the Roman Empire, It is the pagan religious system from which the Roman Empire ruled.

Rev 17 and 18, the characteristic of the mother of harlots, can you show me where jerusalem today fits any of these characteristics?

I don't think this fits Jerusalem today, as they no longer have the Temple or animal sacrifices. It does fit Jerusalem of AD 70, when the city was destroyed. As a disclaimer, I believe most of Revelation was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70.

"Mother of Harlots" is not literal, but hyperbole. She is the "mother of harlots" because she is cheating on God Himself.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hosea chapter 2 gives one of the clearest examples of when Israel played the harlot in the OT. I believe that we might be getting into a matter of semantics. If my wife cheats on me, she is playing the harlot. The man she is cheating with is also playing the harlot with her. Maybe I am just a little dense. Definitely would not be the first time.

Once again,

Playing the harlot and being the harlot are two different things

Rev 17 is about the mother of harlots. Not playing the harlot.

Babylon is not a cheating husband or wife. It is what we would call today the mother of a prostitution ring.

I am not trying to bust ya bro. Just trying to get you see it from a different direction.

Again in rev 17 - 18 it gives us specific characteristics of the mother of Harlots.

What characteristics fits jerusalem today?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't think this fits Jerusalem today, as they no longer have the Temple or animal sacrifices. It does fit Jerusalem of AD 70, when the city was destroyed. As a disclaimer, I believe most of Revelation was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 70.

"Mother of Harlots" is not literal, but hyperbole. She is the "mother of harlots" because she is cheating on God Himself.

Rev 17 is speaking of a future event.

I am not sure how ad 70 fulfills even part of revelation. Can you explain this to me?

 

[Mark Corbett]

I believer nebachadnezar was the head of Gold. Or the first beast (the lion)

I believe the final beast of this 4 beast gentile kingdoms will be the final beast, or the man of sin. The son of perdition, the antichrist himself.

I believe as John said, there are many antichrists,, But in revelation we see the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. As they are defeated by Christ himself.

We also must remember, The harlot is a threat to the beast himself. So he is the one who destroys the Harlot

I think this can give us a possible clue as to who the harlot is also.

Since there are many manifestations of antichrist (although one may be the "ultimate version"), might there be many manifestations of Babylon (again, perhaps with one primary, or ultimate, version)?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Since there are many manifestations of antichrist (although one may be the "ultimate version"), might there be many manifestations of Babylon (again, perhaps with one primary, or ultimate, version)?

You could say this.

Grecian mythology and roman mythology would be two manifestations. If you look at it, prety much the same Gods, but different names.

Remember a harlot takes the place of a wife. She acts as the wife. (Or husband) But she is not the wife.

Which is another reason why it can not be Jerusalem.

 

[Lodic]

Once again,

Playing the harlot and being the harlot are two different things

Rev 17 is about the mother of harlots. Not playing the harlot.

Babylon is not a cheating husband or wife. It is what we would call today the mother of a prostitution ring.

I am not trying to bust ya bro. Just trying to get you see it from a different direction.

Again in rev 17 - 18 it gives us specific characteristics of the mother of Harlots.

What characteristics fits jerusalem today?

If I understand this, you are suggesting that "Mother of Harlots" is similar to a pimp. Israel had played the harlot with the Roman Empire, cheating on her Husband, which is Christ.

I didn't think you were trying to bust my chops, but it was nice of you to make sure I didn't feel slighted. We're just having a conversation here, not an argument. After all, isn't that one of the reasons we are on the Baptist Board?