What is Biblical Humility & what is spiritual arrogance?

[evangelist6589]

John, that is an excellent book. FWIW and FTR I don't see your intent in this OP as self serving.

Read a chapter today. He made strong points for Lordship, strong points against the sinners prayer and the tactics of modern evangelism. He explained what it means to have a real confession of faith, he talked about the faith of the demons, and the faith of many false converts whom said a prayer but base all their salvation on that prayer, yet their life has no evidence of the Lordship of Christ, and he also talked about the five Sola's a little. A great read thus far!

 

[Revmitchell]

Read a chapter today. He made strong points for Lordship, strong points against the sinners prayer and the tactics of modern evangelism. He explained what it means to have a real confession of faith, he talked about the faith of the demons, and the faith of many false converts whom said a prayer but base all their salvation on that prayer, yet their life has no evidence of the Lordship of Christ, and he also talked about the five Sola's a little. A great read thus far!

And he like many others set up a strawman so he has something to defeat. Which is that their salvation is based on a prayer. It fails the honesty test.

 

[evangelist6589]

I agree, though in some threads evangelist6589 seemed to ring that bell.

Humility isn't a coat to cover the heart full of pride.

It is a state of being. What a person is because that is who they are.

One cannot self impose humility, but can take steps to shun pride and look for ways to place themselves in servitude.

One cannot assume humility is a quality that can be learned as one learns to cook or do math.

Humility is shown - it is demonstrated by doing. For instance when one does for others without that person knowing and also assuming that no one else will notice.

Do not be afraid to loose what you hold, for as a believer it isn't yours to begin with, but a tool loaned to God's service.

Do not be ashamed of the gospel of Christ, but also do not be embarrassed when held to rebuke and shame. The believer is a tool of Christ, and He should enjoy using us as He desires.

Humility will allow for those who heap ridicule and even pile unwarranted blame upon them. Humility has the desire for the betterment of others over the comfort of their own self.

Again, humility isn't an acquired skill, but a life lived.

Well said. I believe that CJ Mahaney wrote a book on the topic that I may ask for Christmas. Since my wife is not Reformed, I should ask fellow Reformed what they thought of the book.

 

[evangelist6589]

And he like many others set up a strawman so he has something to defeat. Which is that their salvation is based on a prayer. It fails the honesty test.

If you got him in a corner and asked that question I do not believe that Washer would say that 100% of non Reformed are false converts and believe their salvation is based on a prayer. However he is simply broad brushing to describe MOST in the movement and he is correct in his arguments. Perhaps you should read a book before you judge the intents of the author. But warning this will require you to think and challenge your views and I know how much you do not like this.

 

[Revmitchell]

If you got him in a corner and asked that question I do not believe that Washer would say that 100% of non Reformed are false converts and believe their salvation is based on a prayer. However he is simply broad brushing to describe MOST in the movement and he is correct in his arguments. Perhaps you should read a book before you judge the intents of the author. But warning this will require you to think and challenge your views and I know how much you do not like this.

I know his arguments. That book is not the only place he makes his strawman. And it is not "most in the (so called) movement". It is false and he knows it.

 

[evangelist6589]

I know his arguments. That book is not the only place he makes his strawman. And it is not "most in the (so called) movement". It is false and he knows it.

Do you believe that people whom say a prayer yet have no fruit of conversion are truly saved? My cousin for example said the prayer decades ago, yet today hears voices, lost his wife and kids due to his drug abuse, and is presently in a lock down facility. Do you think he is saved? can a christian be saved and try and commit suicide? Can a Christian be saved and hear from devils?

 

[Revmitchell]

Do you believe that people whom say a prayer yet have no fruit of conversion are truly saved?

They may not be but false conversions are not a result of faulty methods they are a result of the poor intentions of the false converts. There were false converts in Jesus day, there have always been false converts. Blaming the wrong thing will not stop that.

My cousin for example said the prayer decades ago, yet today hears voices, lost his wife and kids due to his drug abuse, and is presently in a lock down facility. Do you think he is saved? can a christian be saved and try and commit suicide? Can a Christian be saved and hear from devils?

Says more about him than any prayer he said.

 

[Winman]

Do you believe that people whom say a prayer yet have no fruit of conversion are truly saved? My cousin for example said the prayer decades ago, yet today hears voices, lost his wife and kids due to his drug abuse, and is presently in a lock down facility. Do you think he is saved? can a christian be saved and try and commit suicide? Can a Christian be saved and hear from devils?

Jesus himself showed an example of what you call "easy believism";

Luk 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The Pharisee believed in Lordship Salvation. He boasted that he obeyed God's commandments, yet he was not saved.

The publican made no such boast, but simply cried out for God to have mercy on him.

Jesus said the publican went down to his house justified, all his sins forgiven.

This is what YOU call easy believism, and Jesus said this man was saved.

If a man sincerely calls upon Jesus to save him from his sins he is saved.

Those who trust in their works are not saved.

You should be careful who you listen to.

 

[Revmitchell]

The Pharisee believed in Lordship Salvation. He boasted that he obeyed God's commandments, yet he was not saved.

That is not an example of Lordship. That was about using the law to make themselves look good. Two completely different things. Lordship is about a genuine relationship with God not just following a set of rules.

 

[Winman]

That is not an example of Lordship. That was about using the law to make themselves look good. Two completely different things. Lordship is about a genuine relationship with God not just following a set of rules.

Well, the Pharisee boasted that he followed all the commandments, much like Lordship Salvationists do.

And the fact is, he really did follow the commandments. The problem was he trusted in his own righteousness, and despised others.

And that is exactly what you see with Lordship Salvation, these folks always talk like they are living holy lives, while everybody else is a wicked sinner. You can see that very attitude in this thread.

That is exactly how this Pharisee acted. The publican on the other hand came in and cast himself on the mercy of God. He said a simple prayer.

And the publican was saved. Folks should take this as a lesson.

 

[Revmitchell]

Well, the Pharisee boasted that he followed all the commandments, much like Lordship Salvationists do.

Uh no they do not. You do not really seem to understand the topic in which you criticize. Either that or you are just wanting to use inflammatory characterizations about a view you disagree with.

 

[Winman]

Uh no they do not. You do not really seem to understand the topic in which you criticize.

Give me a break, Lordship Salvationists are always accusing easy believism of not showing EVIDENCE OF SALVATION. And what do they mean by that? They are saying that Lordship Salvationists do WORKS. They pray, they go to church, they read their Bible, they give money to the church, etc...

They talk EXACTLY like the Pharisee did in this parable.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

The Pharisee is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of a Lordship Salvationist. And just as he despised the publican who simply prayed for forgiveness, that is exactly what Lordship Salvationists do here.

Note how Evangelist put down his brother who said an easy believism prayer. He is not like his wicked brother.

 

[Winman]

Here is what I am talkng about;

Read a chapter today. He made strong points for Lordship, strong points against the sinners prayer and the tactics of modern evangelism. He explained what it means to have a real confession of faith, he talked about the faith of the demons, and the faith of many false converts whom said a prayer but base all their salvation on that prayer, yet their life has no evidence of the Lordship of Christ, and he also talked about the five Sola's a little. A great read thus far!

These guys always talk just like the Pharisee in Luke 18.

 

[Revmitchell]

Give me a break, Lordship Salvationists are always accusing easy believism of not showing EVIDENCE OF SALVATION. And what do they mean by that? They are saying that Lordship Salvationists do WORKS. They pray, they go to church, they read their Bible, they give money to the church, etc...

They talk EXACTLY like the Pharisee did in this parable.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

The Pharisee is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of a Lordship Salvationist. And just as he despised the publican who simply prayed for forgiveness, that is exactly what Lordship Salvationists do here.

Note how Evangelist put down his brother who said an easy believism prayer. He is not like his wicked brother.

First I am not going to account for him. But his response has nothing to do with the doctrine. Much like the attack dog cals on this board do so not because of their doctrine but because it is in their hearts to do it.

And your posts on doctrine with which you disagree doesn't seem to be any different than theirs. I would say your response here and attitude is more closely related to the attitude of the pharisees than any doctrine.

 

[preacher4truth]

Much like the attack dog cals on this board do

Still sowing discord? Yup. You resemble your own accusations, and honestly it's sad and old. Grow up.

 

[preacher4truth]

If you got him in a corner and asked that question I do not believe that Washer would say that 100% of non Reformed are false converts and believe their salvation is based on a prayer. However he is simply broad brushing to describe MOST in the movement and he is correct in his arguments. Perhaps you should read a book before you judge the intents of the author. But warning this will require you to think and challenge your views and I know how much you do not like this.

You know you'll never convince the likes of him. Don't allow him to harass, it is not profitable to engage him, we all know he only wants to attack Calvinists, accuse them, and stand against truth. You know better than to engage him John, what profit have you gained doing so?

 

[preacher4truth]

Read a chapter today. He made strong points for Lordship, strong points against the sinners prayer and the tactics of modern evangelism. He explained what it means to have a real confession of faith, he talked about the faith of the demons, and the faith of many false converts whom said a prayer but base all their salvation on that prayer, yet their life has no evidence of the Lordship of Christ, and he also talked about the five Sola's a little. A great read thus far!

He speaks truth and is greatly used and this is why persons fight against what he says.

 

[evangelist6589]

Well, the Pharisee boasted that he followed all the commandments, much like Lordship Salvationists do.

And the fact is, he really did follow the commandments. The problem was he trusted in his own righteousness, and despised others.

And that is exactly what you see with Lordship Salvation, these folks always talk like they are living holy lives, while everybody else is a wicked sinner. You can see that very attitude in this thread.

That is exactly how this Pharisee acted. The publican on the other hand came in and cast himself on the mercy of God. He said a simple prayer.

And the publican was saved. Folks should take this as a lesson.

So in other words those that have at one time said the prayer and later turned to Mormonism, Occultism, and such are saved. Many Homosexuals have said the prayer at one time and they must be saved as well by your book.

 

[evangelist6589]

Uh no they do not. You do not really seem to understand the topic in which you criticize. Either that or you are just wanting to use inflammatory characterizations about a view you disagree with.

Sounds like Winman alright.

 

[evangelist6589]

Here is what I am talkng about;



These guys always talk just like the Pharisee in Luke 18.

Actually if you bothered to read the Paul Washer book he made it as clear as crystal on a certain page that true believers will fail, fall into sin, struggle with the flesh, and such throughout their lives. But the DIFFERENCE is that they walk with Christ, and He works in them and grows then. A false convert will at one time said the prayer, but have no fruit of salvation in his/her life. I met dozens of people in South Carolina that claimed salvation, yet did no think they were sinners. Truly saved believers by your book.