Y
Yelsew
Guest
let's Go on.
What does grace do?
What does grace do?
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Grace is an attribute. It is free unmerited favor. Salvation is a free gift. You can't work for it. It is free. You don't deserve it. It is all by God's grace. It is free unmerited favor bestowed upon an individual.
The rain falls on the just and the unjust. That is grace.
The sun shines upon the just and the unjust. That is grace. We don't deserve it. We have done nothing to merit the goodness of God. His goodness to us flows from His love for us. It is free and on our part undeserved.
Remember the man on the way to Jericho, whom thieves attacked and left for dead. After two Jews saw him, and passed by on the other way, not willing to help, a Samaritan stopped and helped him. Did the Samaritan show him mercy or grace? What is the difference? Had his own countryman stopped to help him, he would have had mercy on him. But this was one of them that was hated by the Jews--A Samaritan!! The Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. They go out of their way to avoid them. They treat them as dogs (insultingly). The Samaritan had no reason to help this man who treated him and his people so badly. This was not just mercy; it was grace. It was free undeserved favor. He didn't deserve to be so well-treated by a Samaritan, when the Jews so hated the Samaritans, but this Samaritan had compassion on him anyway. That is grace.
Grace is:
GOD'S
RICHES
AT
CHRIST'S
EXPENSE
DHK
The rain falls on the just and the unjust. That is grace.
The sun shines upon the just and the unjust. That is grace. We don't deserve it. We have done nothing to merit the goodness of God. His goodness to us flows from His love for us. It is free and on our part undeserved.
Remember the man on the way to Jericho, whom thieves attacked and left for dead. After two Jews saw him, and passed by on the other way, not willing to help, a Samaritan stopped and helped him. Did the Samaritan show him mercy or grace? What is the difference? Had his own countryman stopped to help him, he would have had mercy on him. But this was one of them that was hated by the Jews--A Samaritan!! The Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. They go out of their way to avoid them. They treat them as dogs (insultingly). The Samaritan had no reason to help this man who treated him and his people so badly. This was not just mercy; it was grace. It was free undeserved favor. He didn't deserve to be so well-treated by a Samaritan, when the Jews so hated the Samaritans, but this Samaritan had compassion on him anyway. That is grace.
Grace is:
GOD'S
RICHES
AT
CHRIST'S
EXPENSE
DHK
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Wonderful Post DHK!
You provide one of those "fine-line" distinctions between Grace and Mercy that is usually and normally not picked up on. However to God, Grace and Mercy are the same, it is only man that makes such distinctions.
Nevertheless, you have a good understanding of Grace.
What does Grace do? We now know what it is, but what does it do?
You provide one of those "fine-line" distinctions between Grace and Mercy that is usually and normally not picked up on. However to God, Grace and Mercy are the same, it is only man that makes such distinctions.
Nevertheless, you have a good understanding of Grace.
What does Grace do? We now know what it is, but what does it do?
I'll give my understanding of grace.
We deserve damnation. It is by God's grace that Jesus died for our sins and allows those who accept Jesus as Lord to be found righteous even though we are still sinners.
In other words, God's grace is Jesus' blood covering our sins so that our sins will not be remembered.
We deserve damnation. It is by God's grace that Jesus died for our sins and allows those who accept Jesus as Lord to be found righteous even though we are still sinners.
In other words, God's grace is Jesus' blood covering our sins so that our sins will not be remembered.
Y
Yelsew
Guest
Would that not be a gift of Grace, rather than grace itself?
Y
Yelsew
Guest
The bible defines Jesus as a gift of Grace. Therefore His blood is a gift of Grace.Originally posted by Tuor:
By the way, I believe I did define what grace is:
God's grace is Jesus' blood
Y
Yelsew
Guest
If you are convinced this is merely a word game you are free to opt out!
Tuor,
There is a proper definition of grace.
It is free undeserved merit.
When people tamper with that definition, change it to their own liking, make up their own, then they begin to establish their own cult.
Neo-orthodoxy is a movement that precisely does this very thing. They take the basic theological terms such as grace, faith, atonement, salvation, etc. and redefine them. Thus when you talk to one of them, you may be using the term grace as they do, but they mean something entirely different than you do because they have redefined the term.
I will give you a good example. Grace does indeed mean "free undeserved merit." Salvation is all by the grace of God. We don't deserve it. There is nothing that we can do to merit. It is 100% the free unmerited favor that God has bestowed upon us out of His love for us. That is grace.
Now as soon as man attaches baptism, and says that baptism is necessary for salvation, he takes away from the grace of God. Salvation is no longer all by the grace of God. Man now says that he must do something himself to merit salvation. He must be baptized. It now becomes a works salvation. 99% the work of God and 1% the work of man (baptism). It is no longer of grace. That is the reality. But some will redefine grace and claim that this salvation is still grace, just adding confusion to the discussion. This is neo-orthodoxy.
It is imperative that we come to terms with definitions. We cannot just go along and make up our own definitions. My opinions don't count. What does the word mean. What is grace? Proper definitions are very important.
DHK
There is a proper definition of grace.
It is free undeserved merit.
When people tamper with that definition, change it to their own liking, make up their own, then they begin to establish their own cult.
Neo-orthodoxy is a movement that precisely does this very thing. They take the basic theological terms such as grace, faith, atonement, salvation, etc. and redefine them. Thus when you talk to one of them, you may be using the term grace as they do, but they mean something entirely different than you do because they have redefined the term.
I will give you a good example. Grace does indeed mean "free undeserved merit." Salvation is all by the grace of God. We don't deserve it. There is nothing that we can do to merit. It is 100% the free unmerited favor that God has bestowed upon us out of His love for us. That is grace.
Now as soon as man attaches baptism, and says that baptism is necessary for salvation, he takes away from the grace of God. Salvation is no longer all by the grace of God. Man now says that he must do something himself to merit salvation. He must be baptized. It now becomes a works salvation. 99% the work of God and 1% the work of man (baptism). It is no longer of grace. That is the reality. But some will redefine grace and claim that this salvation is still grace, just adding confusion to the discussion. This is neo-orthodoxy.
It is imperative that we come to terms with definitions. We cannot just go along and make up our own definitions. My opinions don't count. What does the word mean. What is grace? Proper definitions are very important.
DHK
Well DHK, you just started down a slippery slope that either ends in one of two areas. Either you come to the logical conclusion that everyone is going to be found righteous, or you are going to come to the conclusion that God makes the judgement of salvation as He sees fit and nothing that we could ever do would matter. It is a roll of the dice without reguard to how one lives one's life and the decision one makes in life. Surely you can see the logic that leads to these conclusions based on your definition of grace.
Well DHK, you just started down a slippery slope that either ends in one of two areas. Either you come to the logical conclusion that everyone is going to be found righteous, or you are going to come to the conclusion that God makes the judgement of salvation as He sees fit and nothing that we could ever do would matter. It is a roll of the dice without reguard to how one lives one's life and the decision one makes in life. Surely you can see the logic that leads to these conclusions based on your definition of grace. </font>[/QUOTE]First of all, those are not necessarily logical conclusions. You may work out your own theological system according to your own presuppositions and your own study. But it is not wise to redefine words according to your own liking. Do some study. Go to Greek lexicons, dictionaries, commentaries, word studies, etc. Find out what the word means.
Or better yet, get your definition straight from the Bible:
Rom.11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Grace is free unmerited favor. You cannot work for it. Grace and works don't mix. If you have to work for salvation, then it is not of grace. Paul makes that very plain in this passage.
Rom.4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Again it is all of grace, or it isn't of grace at all. If works are involved then grace is not. With works there is a reward connected--something is earned. With grace, everything is free. Salvation is God's free unmerited favor to mankind. Accept it by faith. It is the free gift of God. You cannot work for it. That is the grace of God. That is why baptism is eliminated. If baptism is included in salvation, then, "grace is no more grace."
DHK
Is one's decisions in life important when it comes to possibly receiving this grace?
If so, then by your definition, this is not grace, but works. </font>[/QUOTE]You are not really making much sense are you?
When God, out of His grace, sends rain, can you reject it? What decision do make about God's decision to send the rain.
What decision did you make when God sent the sun to shine. He caused the sun to shine upon the wicked and the saved alike. That is God's decision not yours. It is the grace of God.
What decision did you make when God sent His Son into this world to die for your sins. Even if you decide now that you want to go to Hell, you couldn't stop God from becoming flesh and dying for your sins. That wasn't your decision to make. It was God's and He did it any way inspite of you and your complaints. You had no say in the matter. It was all of grace. Salvation is all of grace. It was paid for by the blood of Christ. It was His death, burial, and resurrection, that brought salvation to mankind. That was never a decision that you had to make. You have no part or parcel in what God does/did for you. It is all by grace. And you ought to be thankful for that. Be thankful that it is by the grace of God, and His grace alone that He keeps your heart beating and your lungs breathing. Oh for the wonderful grace of God!! The unmerited favor of God that He bestows upon us day after day, though we don't deserve it. It is God that decides whether your heart should beat another beat. It is His decision. It is His grace to keep you alive as long as you already are. It is out of His love and grace that He does so.
Salvation, by God's grace has been provided for you. It is a gift of God. You either receive it or reject it by faith. And that has nothing to do with works.
DHK
Salvation, by God's grace has been provided for you. It is a gift of God.
You either receive it or reject it by faith. And that has nothing to do with works
Amen, DHK; and here's a comment by a Catholic on another board.
"Nowhere will you find that simply believing in
Jesus will save you, but rather we will gain
eternal life through perseverence in good works."
Now that's salvation by works!!
Isn't that a shame....Jesus said "Whosoever believes in me; though he were
dead yet shall he live and he who believes in me and lives shall never die" (St John
11:25,26) and the RCC says just the opposite. Maybe they are Babylon.
But then that's just my opinion (and the opinion of a few million other people)
You either receive it or reject it by faith. And that has nothing to do with works
Amen, DHK; and here's a comment by a Catholic on another board.
"Nowhere will you find that simply believing in
Jesus will save you, but rather we will gain
eternal life through perseverence in good works."
Now that's salvation by works!!
Isn't that a shame....Jesus said "Whosoever believes in me; though he were
dead yet shall he live and he who believes in me and lives shall never die" (St John
11:25,26) and the RCC says just the opposite. Maybe they are Babylon.
But then that's just my opinion (and the opinion of a few million other people)
It's not hard to figure out. Salvation is really quite simple. I am neither a universalist nor a calvinist.
Salvation is all of the grace of God. He provided it all, and for all of mankind. However it is efficacious only to those who receive it by faith. I have a son who just graduated from college. If I were to buy him a brand new mercedes bendz for a gift, what would he have to do to get it. If it is truly a gift, all he would have to do is take the keys from me. Receive it. That is all. It does no good to leave the gift, already provided, ignored, unused, rejected, never received, etc. Unless the gift is actually received by the one to whom it is given it does no good. You have to receive the gift. So it is with salvation. If you do not by faith receive God's gift of salvation, (which he provided entirely by His grace), then you cannot be saved. It is as simple as that.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. There is nothing complicated in that. Paul never said Believe and be baptised and you shall be saved. He simply said Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Salvation is all of grace--the free unmerited favor of God.
