What is it Charismatics believe?

[qwerty]

Something is finally starting to click.
It hadn't really sunk in until now.
When most Baptists discuss Charismatics, they talk about what they see on TBN, on television.
Talk about disconnect.
You think that by watching a TV show you can understand something about a group that you despise.
I suppose an appropriate analogy would be this:
If you are watching TBN to try to understand Charismatics, I would also assume that you are watching the Soap Operas to understand how marriage works. You will equally get the "correct" understanding about the topic in each situation.

McArthur's comments in Chaos are a mixture of a little truth with a lot of fiction writing. Similar to rat poison. But it sure tastes good to some.

 

[Pete]

By Spirit and Truth:
I heard one famous TBN evangelist say "shaka zulu" while "speaking in tongues.

at one stage on a Rodney Howard-Browne tape I listened to (back when I was younger and sillier than now) there is an occurrence of "tongues"....In the middle of the babbling you can hear "Nelson Mandela". It makes me wonder if there is no word in "tongues" for Mr Mandela, or if it was prayer for him why it wasn't English so everyone would know what's going on

By qwerty:
When most Baptists discuss Charismatics, they talk about what they see on TBN, on television.
You think that by watching a TV show you can understand something about a group that you despise.

I was regular at a couple of charismaniac churches in 5-6 year time period. More garbage in there than what Mr Hinn & co come out with on the idiot box.

 

[donnA]

Originally posted by qwerty:
Something is finally starting to click.
It hadn't really sunk in until now.
When most Baptists discuss Charismatics, they talk about what they see on TBN, on television.
Talk about disconnect.
You think that by watching a TV show you can understand something about a group that you despise.
I suppose an appropriate analogy would be this:
If you are watching TBN to try to understand Charismatics, I would also assume that you are watching the Soap Operas to understand how marriage works. You will equally get the "correct" understanding about the topic in each situation.

McArthur's comments in Chaos are a mixture of a little truth with a lot of fiction writing. Similar to rat poison. But it sure tastes good to some.

Sorry, been to these churches in person. And it is worse then tv.

 

[Kiffin]

Charismatics are probably as diverse as Baptists. They range from the Word of Faith extremists like Copeland and Hinn to Calvinists like Wayne Grudem.
There seems to be 2 wings of the Charismatic movement.

1. Traditional Pentecostal Charismatics - Speaking in tongues is the sign of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

2. Vineyard Type Charismatics - All Christians are given the Gifts but not all speak in tongues. They may receive the gift of Healing, Prophecy etc...instead.

I love John MacArthur but I am not a fan of Charismatic chaos in that he focuses on the extremists and would do better in addressing Charismatic scholars like Dr. Gordon Fee, Jack Deere and Wayne Grudem. I think John R. Rice wrote a pamplet years ago that actually is more balanced.

 

[donnA]

John MacArthur did not write Charismatic Chaos. Hank Hanegraaff did.
Some are not the name it and claim it, and some are only to a degree. I do know some exist who do demand a person has to speak in tongues, but I've yet to meet them.
Do those type 2 believe in baptism of the holy spirit? They're the one I know the least about because we don't have any that I know of.

 

[Trotter]

I live in Cleveland, TN, world headquarters of the Chorch of God (Cleveland, TN), and also the world HQ of the Church of God of Prophecy. And, yes, they can get pretty weird at times.

But not all of them are that way. Some of them are pretty tame, and some even believe in eternal security. All believe that 'tongues' are in operation today, but not all say that one must speak in 'tongues' to prove salvation. They are basically Pentecostal, with a little Charismatic tossed in.

Now, there are a couple of other churches/bible school here that is a different story. One church is Charismatic, pastored by a graduate of the Rhema Institute. Another is a church/bible school that is full-blown 'name-it-and-claim-it', and hosts seminars to teach you how to 'heal'.

Just a 'normal' town I guess...

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[donnA]

Trotter, some old friends of ours are charismatic and they for a while were quite attached to a 'preacher' from Cleveland Tn, runs some bible school or something there, he preached at their church. If I could remember his name you'd probably know of him.

 

[blackbird]

DonnA---Brother MacAuthor did write one also called Charasmatic Chaos---I've got it in my library. Probably one of the best on the subject--better than Hank's same book!

Your buddy,
Brother David

 

[ChurchBoy]

Originally posted by donnA:
John MacArthur did not write Charismatic Chaos. Hank Hanegraaff did.
Some are not the name it and claim it, and some are only to a degree. I do know some exist who do demand a person has to speak in tongues, but I've yet to meet them.
Do those type 2 believe in baptism of the holy spirit? They're the one I know the least about because we don't have any that I know of.

donnA,

John McCarther did write Charismatic Chaos. Hank Hannegraaff wrote Christianity in Crisis and Counterfeit Revival

 

[donnA]

Originally posted by blackbird:
DonnA---Brother MacAuthor did write one also called Charasmatic Chaos---I've got it in my library. Probably one of the best on the subject--better than Hank's same book!

Your buddy,
Brother David

Really? Where can I get one of those then?

 

[donnA]

You know after some thought you may be right. I don't recall for sure. So I'll take your word for it, it's better then my memory.

 

[GODzThunder]

I ask the same question I ask all chrismatic ministers. Paul teaches that there should be an interperter of tongues when tongues is spoken. He even goes on to say that if no interperter is present, then the speaker should keep quiet. Of ALL the Chrismatic Churches I have been to, I have NEVER heard an interperter speak. just a bunch of people rant and ramble in a unknown jibberish sound, neither having reason or knowledge of what is said. Never has a preacher been able to give me an explination. They either tell me I have misinterperted the scripture (how you can misinterpert a direct quote, do not speak with no interperter is beyond me) or they blow up and say that I am a hypocrite caught in the lostness of the Baptist Church


BTW, has anyone across the country heard of a chrismatic movement of gold dust? that is out of nowhere in a Church service gold dust will flutter (in most cases only certain individuals can see it). the "good rev Sandra Kennedy" preaches on this all the time.

 

[donnA]

I heard Benny Hinn one time telling about being a guest on CBN and telling them(the hosts) about preaching in Africa and gold dust falling down on him. Paul Crouch said(according the Benny Hinn's retelling) that it was dust falling from the streets of gold in heaven.
I guess you could say God kicked dirt in his face.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by donnA:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by blackbird:
DonnA---Brother MacAuthor did write one also called Charasmatic Chaos---I've got it in my library. Probably one of the best on the subject--better than Hank's same book!

Your buddy,
Brother David

Really? Where can I get one of those then? </font>[/QUOTE]The whole book is online and downloadable. It is found on John MacArthur's website here:

MacArthur's Collection


Scroll down until you come to Charismatics, and you will find his book there, chapter by chapter.
DHK

 

[MalkyEL]

Speaking of Benny Hinn - I ran across this statement today . . .

Benny Hinn: TBN will no longer be just a television network. It will be an extension of heaven to earth.

Paul Crouch: My Jesus, have mercy. Ohhhhh!

Benny Hinn: The Lord just said to me these words - I'm hearing myself say them for the first time - TBN will not be only a Christian network. It will be an extension of heaven to the earth. And extension - it will be like a tube from heaven that the earth can look and say "I'm looking at heaven, I'm partaking of heaven. I'm getting connected to heaven through this TV tube." If I can say it, it will be heaven's signal to the earth. It will be as though heaven is transmitting and earth is receiving through that set. So if you want to go to heaven, you want to see heaven, you want to taste heaven, turn on that channel, 'cause you will. (Praise The Lord, Trinity Broadcasting Network, October 19, 1999)

-----------------------

Contenders Note: If TBN represents heaven, I'm staying here!


http://www.geocities.com/Bob_Hunter/extension.html

 

[MalkyEL]

Benny Hinn and gold dust:

Paul Crouch: When we got back off of the platform, and after Benny had prayed for another half an hour or more for the staff and the other pastors that came backstage, we sat down to get a little bite to eat - and I'm - okay, now are you listening? Gold dust was all over Benny's face and I actually got down close and tried to get some of it and then I took a picture that - the picture didn't turn out too well. It wasn't in good focus - but it was just sparkling all over his face, and where that gold dust came from had to be from another dimension.

Benny Hinn: Well, you know what happened, is after I was done praying, somebody said "Look at your hands," and I looked and I saw this gold dust. I said, "I must be going crazy." Now, you know, please forgive me, these are the kinds of things my wife believes in, not me. (Praise the Lord, Trinity Broadcasting Network, September 10, 1999)

http://www.geocities.com/Bob_Hunter/golddust.html

 

[Spirit and Truth]

Malky El quoted:

The Lord just said to me these words - I'm hearing myself say them for the first time - TBN will not be only a Christian network. It will be an extension of heaven to the earth. And extension - it will be like a tube from heaven that the earth can look and say "I'm looking at heaven, I'm partaking of heaven. I'm getting connected to heaven through this TV tube." If I can say it, it will be heaven's signal to the earth. It will be as though heaven is transmitting and earth is receiving through that set. So if you want to go to heaven, you want to see heaven, you want to taste heaven, turn on that channel, 'cause you will.

S&T:

I wonder if he got that by direct revelation from the nine part god-head that he discussed a while back? Maybe he got it through kabbalistic interpretation while promoting Grant Jeffries latest book about God which is based on hebrew mysticism [kabbalah] on TBN a while back. Or maybe he got it from the spirit of Kathryn Kulman that went into him while he was at her tomb. Or maybe he got it from the man who was raised from the dead at one of his gatherings. [which he later denied saying...I saw the tape] This guy has more divination than the passion movie. NEXT

 

[Spirit and Truth]

As Elvis once sang..."Wise men say....only fools rush in..

 

[Frogman]

Originally posted by qwerty:
They believe the Bible is the Word of God. In their practice they look to the scriptures, such as the book of Acts and see the supernatural workings of the Holy Spirit. They see Paul's writings in 1 Cor. 12,13,14 as normative for the church today.
They do not agree with the cessationism, which says that the Holy Spirit stopped using the supernatural gifts at the end of the first century. They do not accept man's interpretation of the Bible that limits the supernatural work of the Holy Spirit to the first century.

In their practice, they have valid and mature believers, just like other denominations. They also have the young and immature who act immature, just like other denominations.

If you take an unbiased view of where Christianity is growing in the world, it is growing incredibly in South America, Africa, and Asia. While the cessationist denominations in the USA debate about whether the gifts are for today, the church in the much of the rest of the world looks very much like the charismatics that the cessationist denominations so like to deride.

Charismatic is becoming a word like any other derogatory term used to demean a group that somebody doesn't like. It means whatever you want it to mean.

I know a missionary in Brazil, he says when these groups come there, they buy up all the media, radio and tv time (except his he won't sell them time). I mean they don't buy spots, they buy the entire time. They stay for a period of time, then they are gone and those who are there to stay have to deal with the errors they teach.

IMHO, to teach to look for these gifts is desiring something other than Christ.

BTW, I was in a service once (Lighthouse Temple Full Gospel) there were scheduled there for six preachers to preach for 10 minutes each, one of them began his sermon with singing "Jesus is coming soon" and during that and his resultant sermon began to repeat 'shaka, khan' over and over and over. I left.

Bro. Dallas

 

[Elijah]

Unfortunately, saying charismatic, is about like saying baptist. There are several varieties and many dont even resemble each other. In my line of work I have the priveledge of dealing with many different kinds of churches. among the so called charismatic churches, I have been to a few that seem to hold pretty sound doctrine. Having said that, I have also been in a few that were pretty wacky to say the least. Likewise with Baptist churches. i have been in some that were a joy to be in, and in some that seem little different than some kind of branch dividian, Waco (wacko) cult. I guess what I'm trying to say is, you have to take them on an individual basis.
P.S. If you may be wondering why Ive been to so many of these churches on business? I am in the music retail business, and pentacostal type churches really have a need for music equip.