What is Lordship Salvation?

[Covenanter]

Casting my memory back nearly 60 years ....
The accusation was made that "Billy Graham converts don't last."
One official reply was, "Neither does a bath, but it does you good."

The BIG problem with decisionist, salvation prayer, evangelism is that "converts" are encouraged to look back to their commitment for assurance, rather than upward & forward & onward to the LORD Jesus & eternal life relationship beginning NOW.

 

[Reformed]

The BIG problem with decisionist, salvation prayer, evangelism is that "converts" are encouraged to look back to their commitment for assurance, rather than upward & forward & onward to the LORD Jesus...

This is why I put more stock in what a person confesses rather than knowing a date, place, and time he made a decision for Christ. The Bible college I attended had a robust evangelism ministry. They used to tour the United States performing stage productions. At the end of the production, an invitation was given with an altar call. Professed converts were given a small adhesive spiritual birth certificate sticker to put in their Bible reminding them they were a child of God. I shudder when I think of those days. It is not what is stuck on the inside cover of your Bible that gives you the assurance of salvation, it is what you confess. It is also how you are living. Do you confess the great truths of the Christian faith? Do you strive to live in accordance with your profession; mortifying the deeds of the flesh in your life? Do you keep short accounts with God by confessing your sins? In short, do you take Paul's admonition in 2 Cor. 13:5 to heart by examining yourself to see if you are in the faith? These things give us assurance that our faith is real, not some glue-backed piece of paper.

 

[thatbrian]

The accusation was made that "Billy Graham converts don't last."
One official reply was, "Neither does a bath, but it does you good."

Was that literally the reply? I wouldn't be surprised that they would think such, but for them to say it publicly is quite another matter.

For over 20 years I lived with the endless anxiety of looking to my commitment to Christ for assurance of salvation. It's nothing short of a miracle that I kept my sanity through those times. I can't express the mental torment that began with decisionist evangelism and was carried along with pietism. Like Martin Luther's dream of being crushed by a Bible, I was living the nightmare 24/7.

Reformed theology, aka, the Doctrines of Grace, saved my life by transferring my assurance from the quicksand of my commitment to Him to the Rock of His commitment to me. My salvation has anchors that stretch back to before the world was formed, and forward to glory. Praise the Lord!

 

[HankD]

Hmm, 54 years ago I decided to stop running from God and believe the gospel of forgiveness of sin and the promise of eternal life.

Personally I attribute the ability to make that decision as a gift coming down from the Father in heaven flowing through the Spirit of God.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

When we get involved with these kinds of debates they are still SELF-ORIENTED. The measure of the quantity/quality of lifestyle as the criteria set up by the entrenched combative camps as to the genuine quality of our walk with the LORD.

Now in this kind of social media gathering that is to be be expected as we each in our own way sincerely contend for the faith.

That the ministry of the Spirit of God is neglected (for the most part) in our debates of this kind seems to indicate an area of consideration.

What better evidence of our walk in the Spirit than the fruit of the Spirit?

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

HankD

 

[FollowTheWay]

So how many needy do I need to help to ensure my salvation? What's the formula?

That's not the idea. The real question is how can I do the best with the opportunities God gives me to become more like Jesus and to build the Kingdom for the glory of God.

 

[Reformed]

That's not the idea. The real question is how can I do the best with the opportunities God gives me to become more like Jesus and to build the Kingdom for the glory of God.

How? Walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh (Gal. 5:16). All of us are to put off the old man and put on the new man (Eph. 4:22-24). When we do that we are not only more assured of our faith, we are more effective doing kingdom work.

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[Rob_BW]

How? Walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh (Gal. 5:16). All of us are to put off the old man and put on the new man (Eph. 4:22-24). When we do that we are not only more assured of our faith, we are more effective doing kingdom work.

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More assured? Now there's an odd phrase.

 

[HankD]

The glory of the Triune God - isn't that what its all about?

by participating in the work of the Spirit by obeying the commission to go into all the world and preach the gospel - is that not evidence?

The Spirit of God is our Commander-in-Chief directing the obedient churches, now as in the book of Acts.

Go - if you are led to do so.
Give - all -as you are led.
Pray - We can all do this, plus Jesus has torn open the Vail into the Holy Place, cleansed us by His blood and urged us to come in making our requests known.

what power he has made available to us (if He is your LORD of course).

Yes there will be the drifters that's inevitable.

and some (guilty as charged) will occasionally fall into slothfulness of our duties as NT priests.

But we have 1 john 1:9 and other scripture to heal our spiritual wounds.

HankD

 

[Felipe Rios]

The Lordship Salvation controversy dominated seminaries and bible colleges in the late 1980's when John MacArthur published his book, "The Gospel According to Jesus" in 1988. The argument itself can trace its beginning decades earlier, but it became a full-blown controversy after MacArthur's book. The controversy split churches, seminaries, and even well-respected theologians and preachers. While the temperature of the controversy has dropped over the years, its substance still remains.

Lordship Salvation is often misunderstood. Some claim that is proponents are adding works to the Gospel. Those who have made that charge include Charles Ryrie, Dave Hunt, John Walvoord, and Zane Hodges. The actual controversy stems from the Bible's teaching on grace and sanctification. Since John MacArthur is still the leading voice from the Lordship Salvation side, I will quote his view on understanding the role of grace:



Sanctification is impacted because the non-Lordship position refutes that good works are a necessary sine qua non of the Christian life. Ephesians 2:10 teaches that Christians are "...His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

The Lordship Salvation position is that Jesus Christ is both Lord and Savior regardless of whether a sinner is converted. When a sinner is converted he experiences the beneficial aspects of Jesus as Lord and Savior; his sins are forgiven and he is now treated as a covenant-keeper, not a covenant-breaker. Jesus does not first become Savior and then becomes Lord at some later date (as is the de facto thought behind rededication ceremonies).

That is it for now. Let us see how this thread plays out.

I read that book a while back. Even though I am not a Calvinist, I do agree with most of what is said in that book. There are many who teach that Jesus saves us and later on in life some of us "commit" our lives to Him. I don't completely agree with that. I believe that we all "commit" our lives to Him at the point of salvation. So yes, Jesus becomes Lord, Savior, King, etc when we repent and believe on Him.

 

[HankD]

I read that book a while back. Even though I am not a Calvinist, I do agree with most of what is said in that book. There are many who teach that Jesus saves us and later on in life some of us "commit" our lives to Him. I don't completely agree with that. I believe that we all "commit" our lives to Him at the point of salvation. So yes, Jesus becomes Lord, Savior, King, etc when we repent and believe on Him.

Felipe - many of us "grow" into it at the will of our God.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

HankD

 

[Iconoclast]

I read that book a while back. Even though I am not a Calvinist, I do agree with most of what is said in that book. There are many who teach that Jesus saves us and later on in life some of us "commit" our lives to Him. I don't completely agree with that. I believe that we all "commit" our lives to Him at the point of salvation. So yes, Jesus becomes Lord, Savior, King, etc when we repent and believe on Him.

Hello FR.
Jesus is Lord and Saviour of all men right now...especially those wh o believe.

 

[Felipe Rios]

Hello FR.
Jesus is Lord and Saviour of all men right now...especially those wh o believe.

Very true. But the point is that we "accept" his Kingship and Lordship over our lives when we get saved.

 

[Felipe Rios]

Felipe - many of us "grow" into it at the will of our God.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

HankD

I agree

 

[Reformed]

Felipe - many of us "grow" into it at the will of our God.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

HankD

Hank,

We do grow in our faith, but Jesus does not become the Lord of our life at some unspecified date after our salvation. That is the crux of the argument.

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[thatbrian]

Felipe - many of us "grow" into it at the will of our God.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

HankD

Does a baby have to be taught to desire milk? Neither do newborn Christians have to be taught to desire God's Word. They crave it. In fact, that is the indication that they are born from above.

 

[Reformed]

More assured? Now there's an odd phrase.

Most "assuredly". Typo. Thanks be to the grammar police. LOL

 

[Rob_BW]

Most "assuredly". Typo. Thanks be to the grammar police. LOL

Oh, I wasn't picking at the grammar, I just wasn't sure about degrees of assuredness. Or is it assurity? Assurance?

 

[thatbrian]

How? Walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh (Gal. 5:16). All of us are to put off the old man and put on the new man (Eph. 4:22-24). When we do that we are not only more assured of our faith, we are more effective doing kingdom work.

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Now I have a question about that phrase. What do you mean by, "more assured of our faith"? Do you mean that our works provide the assurance of our salvation? Do you mean that we are to find assurance in our faith?

 

[Reformed]

The more yield to Spirit the more we become like Christ. Call it Philippians 1:6 playing out. The more we are like Christ the greater our assurance.

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[thatbrian]

The more yield to Spirit the more we become like Christ. Call it Philippians 1:6 playing out. The more we are like Christ the greater our assurance.

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That's what I thought you were saying. I could not disagree more.