What is Lordship Salvation?

[Yeshua1]

The Lordship Salvation controversy dominated seminaries and bible colleges in the late 1980's when John MacArthur published his book, "The Gospel According to Jesus" in 1988. The argument itself can trace its beginning decades earlier, but it became a full-blown controversy after MacArthur's book. The controversy split churches, seminaries, and even well-respected theologians and preachers. While the temperature of the controversy has dropped over the years, its substance still remains.

Lordship Salvation is often misunderstood. Some claim that is proponents are adding works to the Gospel. Those who have made that charge include Charles Ryrie, Dave Hunt, John Walvoord, and Zane Hodges. The actual controversy stems from the Bible's teaching on grace and sanctification. Since John MacArthur is still the leading voice from the Lordship Salvation side, I will quote his view on understanding the role of grace:



Sanctification is impacted because the non-Lordship position refutes that good works are a necessary sine qua non of the Christian life. Ephesians 2:10 teaches that Christians are "...His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them."

The Lordship Salvation position is that Jesus Christ is both Lord and Savior regardless of whether a sinner is converted. When a sinner is converted he experiences the beneficial aspects of Jesus as Lord and Savior; his sins are forgiven and he is now treated as a covenant-keeper, not a covenant-breaker. Jesus does not first become Savior and then becomes Lord at some later date (as is the de facto thought behind rededication ceremonies).

That is it for now. Let us see how this thread plays out.

Those holding to it would be right in viewing the truth of the Christian needs to become more into the image of Jesus, to have more of ourselves given unto Jesus, but where they err in my opinion is when the emphasis is placed too much unto one MUST have surrendered over to Jesus all areas, or else he is Lord of none?
You can get into the Way of the Master, in which one gets to the extreme of having to confess and repent of all know sins in order to even being now saved, as they forget that we are right now fully Justified, but becoming like Jesus life long process.
And God installs Jesus as our Lord once saved over all of us, regardless if we are into Lordship salvation or not!

 

[HankD]

Hank,

We do grow in our faith, but Jesus does not become the Lord of our life at some unspecified date after our salvation. That is the crux of the argument.

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OK I agree with that - however - some "grow" into the realization of his Lordship - or at least I did.

HankD

 

[HankD]

Does a baby have to be taught to desire milk?

Apparently some do or why the commandment?


HankD

 

[thatbrian]

Apparently some do or why the commandment?


HankD

Maybe it's not a commandment.

 

[HankD]

Maybe it's not a commandment.

So? There must have been a reason conveyed to Peter via the Holy Spirit that they needed to be told to "desire" the milk.

HankD

 

[Reformed]

That's what I thought you were saying. I could not disagree more.

That's fine.

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[Reformed]

OK I agree with that - however - some "grow" into the realization of his Lordship - or at least I did.

HankD

That is true so long as we are not conflating the two.

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[thatbrian]

I wonder if those who adhere to LS believe in progressive sanctification. Anyone?

 

[TCassidy]

So? There must have been a reason conveyed to Peter via the Holy Spirit that they needed to be told to "desire" the milk.

Except the command is not to a baby to desire milk. That is a given.

The command is for the new Christian to desire the nourishment of the word of God.

 

[FollowTheWay]

How? Walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh (Gal. 5:16). All of us are to put off the old man and put on the new man (Eph. 4:22-24). When we do that we are not only more assured of our faith, we are more effective doing kingdom work.

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Not sure I understand your question. I'm talking about someone who has accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior and has a personal relationship with Him. This was in answer to a question about how many good works do we need to assure our salvation..

 

[thatbrian]

So? There must have been a reason conveyed to Peter via the Holy Spirit that they needed to be told to "desire" the milk.

HankD

Verse 3.

 

[Yeshua1]

I wonder if those who adhere to LS believe in progressive sanctification. Anyone?

Hard to reconcile that with the "Jesus is either Lord of All, or He is Lord over nothing at all!"

 

[Reformed]

Not sure I understand your question. I'm talking about someone who has accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior and has a personal relationship with Him. This was in answer to a question about how many good works do we need to assure our salvation..

You asked the following, "The real question is how can I do the best with the opportunities God gives me to become more like Jesus and to build the Kingdom for the glory of God." My answer was a little oblique, wasn't it? I am sorry about that. Please let me explain what I meant.

When we walk in the Spirit and mortify the deeds of the flesh we maintain a clear conscience with God. We are probably praying as we ought and obeying scripture as we ought. In short, we are becoming more holy and more like Christ. This is called progressive sanctification. We will never be completely like Christ in this life. We will struggle with abiding sin until the Lord calls us home. Even the Apostles struggled with sin. That is one thing all Christians have in common. But as we become more like Christ, our faith increases. We believe God more. When we believe God more that also means the promises contained in scripture. Our personal assurance that we will, indeed, be with Him in glory becomes more firm.

So, there will never be enough good works to assure your salvation. However, assurance comes through becoming more like Christ. Good works, while commanded of us (Eph. 2:10), are not the substance of our assurance. They are an important component, but they must come from a heart that has been born again.

 

[thatbrian]

But as we become more like Christ, our faith increases. We believe God more. When we believe God more that also means the promises contained in scripture. Our personal assurance that we will, indeed, be with Him in glory becomes more firm.

If I follow your logic, the thief on the cross could not have assurance.

In both my experience and the witness of the NT texts, one-minute old Christians had faith in Christ enough to die in trust of His promise.

When you place the basis for assurance inside of a man, it evaporates, except for one condition, that man is deluded or blind to the depths of sin in his own heart. He imagines that he is doing well in regards to the law of God, and that, as I type, instantly brings to mind the Pharisees of Jesus' day.

 

[Covenanter]

Salvation is essentially a relationship with God beginning with repentance & faith in Christ as our sacrifice for sin & as Lord of our life -
spiritual life from the dead;
born again as his children;
adopted into his family;
brothers & sisters of God's children;
growing in grace;
walking in the Spirit;
knowing his love, joy, peace;
a certain hope of being with Christ in glory;
serving him & our new family as he leads;
.....

 

[Covenanter]

If I follow your logic, the thief on the cross could not have assurance.

In both my experience and the witness of the NT texts, one-minute old Christians had faith in Christ enough to die in trust of His promise.

Salvation is essentially a relationship with God beginning with repentance & faith in Christ as our sacrifice for sin & as Lord of our life -
spiritual life from the dead;
born again as his children;
adopted into his family;
brothers & sisters of God's children;
growing in grace;
walking in the Spirit;
knowing his love, joy, peace;
a certain hope of being with Christ in glory;
serving him & our new family as he leads;
.....

Which of those did the dying criminal lack?

While WE live, & when WE die, that relationship holds firm.

 

[FollowTheWay]

You asked the following, "The real question is how can I do the best with the opportunities God gives me to become more like Jesus and to build the Kingdom for the glory of God." My answer was a little oblique, wasn't it? I am sorry about that. Please let me explain what I meant.

When we walk in the Spirit and mortify the deeds of the flesh we maintain a clear conscience with God. We are probably praying as we ought and obeying scripture as we ought. In short, we are becoming more holy and more like Christ. This is called progressive sanctification. We will never be completely like Christ in this life. We will struggle with abiding sin until the Lord calls us home. Even the Apostles struggled with sin. That is one thing all Christians have in common. But as we become more like Christ, our faith increases. We believe God more. When we believe God more that also means the promises contained in scripture. Our personal assurance that we will, indeed, be with Him in glory becomes more firm.

So, there will never be enough good works to assure your salvation. However, assurance comes through becoming more like Christ. Good works, while commanded of us (Eph. 2:10), are not the substance of our assurance. They are an important component, but they must come from a heart that has been born again.

Excellent summation. I believe as well that the emphasis is on who we are rather than what we've done.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Hmm, 54 years ago I decided to stop running from God and believe the gospel of forgiveness of sin and the promise of eternal life.

Personally I attribute the ability to make that decision as a gift coming down from the Father in heaven flowing through the Spirit of God.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

When we get involved with these kinds of debates they are still SELF-ORIENTED. The measure of the quantity/quality of lifestyle as the criteria set up by the entrenched combative camps as to the genuine quality of our walk with the LORD.

Now in this kind of social media gathering that is to be be expected as we each in our own way sincerely contend for the faith.

That the ministry of the Spirit of God is neglected (for the most part) in our debates of this kind seems to indicate an area of consideration.

What better evidence of our walk in the Spirit than the fruit of the Spirit?

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

HankD

This is an outstanding insight and will change my thinking. What better statement is there than having been saved by Grace through Faith we are led by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to be a new creature characterized by the fruit of the Spirit?

 

[HankD]

This is an outstanding insight and will change my thinking. What better statement is there than having been saved by Grace through Faith we are led by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to be a new creature characterized by the fruit of the Spirit?

Yes. It's wonderful to me because while we participate with the redeemed will in the walk with the LORD, the onus is not to measure up to a local church criterion of what the performance of "Lordship Salvation" means but to follow His leading.

And indeed my life was turned upside down from the very day I was born from above. I was in the military and the question was "What happened to Hank?" , "OH, he got religion".

To this very day He leads and I want to follow just as much now as then.

I have on many occasions left off following Him and have had more than one crash-and-burns.
But He always comes looking for me.

HankD

 

[Rob_BW]

They must have an inside source, here on the baptistboard. It's the only explanation.

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