Originally posted by gekko:
that verse in ephesians does not support your side.
explain to me this then:
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
--Yes it most certainly supports my position. You see salvation is not of works. Neither is the Christian life. It is all of the grace of God. We are saved by grace, and we walk by faith according to the grace of God freely given to us. Without the grace of God freely bestowed upon us we would all be in Hell this day.
You talk of merited grace. There is no such thing. If I got what I deserved I would be in Hell today there spending a Christless eternity enduring nothing but the wrath of God. What do I deserve? I don't deserve anything but God's wrath. God doesn't owe me anything, and it is presumptious to say that God does. He is my Creator; I am his slave. He owes me nothing. What have I merited? Nothing!
in matthew, where it says something like "many will say Lord Lord, and I will say to them, depart from me ye workers of iniquity, i never knew you."
it also says something along the lines of "did we not prophesy in your name? cast out demons in your name? heal in your name? etc"
that means they acccepted Jesus as Lord. right? they were trying to live like Christ. they were labelled as christians. yet had no grace because God judged them according to their iniquity.
No. It doesn't mean that they accepted Jesus as their Saviour. It means the very opposite. Read the context in Matthew chapter 7. Jesus is speaking of false teachers and false prophets.
Matthew 7:15-16 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
--Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they are ravenly wolves. That is they are unsaved. I like to use Benny Hinn as an example here. I don't believe he is saved. His doctrine when examined clearly points to another Christ, another god, a false gospel. He believes in a nine-person trinity and denies the deity of Christ. With that kind of theology the man cannot be saved.
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Thus people like Benny Hinn will someday stand before God and say: "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works?"
--Certainly his works will seem to be that way to much of the world. But Hinn is not saved. His works seem to be that of healing, wonderful works, preaching the gospel, calling Jesus Lord, etc. But his Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible. Hence Jesus will say: "Depart from ye that work iniquity."
--He was never saved in the first place. He never accepted the free gift of God; the grace of God, in the first place.
we cannot have grace if we are not humble. James 4:6
we must repent of our sin. if we dont, we are not humble, and therefore we will not recieve grace.
we must walk uprightly in the Lord. psalms 84:11. if we do not walk uprightly, God will withold that which is good. which is grace.
You are looking at things backwards. None of us deserve grace whether we are proud or humble.
We don't deserve God's grace. God doesn't owe us anything. If he gives the humble more grace it is because he chooses to do so, not because we deserve it; not because we merit it. But rather because he chooses to do so. You cannot merit grace. We deserve only the wrath of God, nothing more.
now listen to this. We accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. then there is the change. at that change of heart, there is humbleness, repentance, and a desire to walk uprightly. therefore recieving grace. but if one accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior and there is not a change. (remember the bible is black and white in this issue - hot or cold) if there is no change after acceptance - if there is no repentance towards God (but a noticable repentance of sin horizontally - which is not what repentance is. its vertical) and therefore that person will not walk uprightly because there is no conviction in his heart.
therefore God will withold that which is good. which is grace. God will resist the proud, and give grace to the humble.
Who are you to judge?
The Bible says:
The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked who can know it? Only God knows the heart whether a person is really saved or not. Again the Bible says: "The Lord knows them that are his," not you.
Again, God gives grace to whom he will. It is not your decision. God is sovereign. Grace is his free
unmerited favor toward man. We don't deserve it. The psalmist complained when he saw the wicked prosper and the beleiver languish in desperation. Often that is the case. But the Lord knows our needs, and as he said to Paul: "My grace is sufficient for you." He takes care of us. It is not our business to question God, but to accept his ways. He is sovereign and knows best for us.
that make more sense? we do not recieve grace at the moment of our acceptance - just like our growth in the Lord - it is gradual. a true convert God will give grace though. because he is humble - repentant towards God - and will desire to walk uprightly and abhor evil.
No, it doesn't make sense. Although in a general sense God will give grace to the humble, the believer must not think of that as a deserving promise, that is, that he is deserving of God's grace because he has been a good boy and has been humble these past two weeks. I am sorry that is not how it works. God doesn't owe you a thing! You don't deserve God's grace no matter who you are and how humble you may be. No one deserves God's grace. Grace is undeserved merit
all the time. If God wishes to withold that grace, that is up to him. As we grow in Christ, we will grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. That much is true. We will experience more of God's grace. But we don't deserve it. That is what is key here. We must always keep that in mind. We don't deserve the grace of God. That is why the Apostle Paul cried out that he above all people was "the chiefest of all sinners." He didn't believe that he was worthy of the grace of God.
yet a false convert - stony ground hearer. will not receive grace from God because he is not humble - either repentant horizontally or not repentant at all - and does not desire to walk uprightly most of the time but loves sin for a season because it is pleasurable.
An unsaved person will not get saved because he will reject the saving work of Christ offered to him. He rejects it on the basis of faith. By faith I either reject or accept what God has to offer. It was God's grace that prompted Christ to offer himself on the cross for our sins. We must either accept or reject that offer of his grace. If we reject it there is no more offering for sin. We are condemned for all eternity.
Thus: "For by grace are ye saved through faith and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works les any man should boast. Salvation is not earned. It is a gift to be accepted by faith, and provided by grace. It is totally unmerited.
that make more sense where this comin from?
It comes from God, and is totally unmerited. It is the free unmerited favor of God no matter which way you cut it.
DHK
NE COMES TO THE SON UNLESS THE FATHER DRAWS HIM."