what is repentance?

[TCGreek]

1. God is able to deliver us from any sin if he chooses. Sin wouldn’t exist without it being a part of his plan. He created sin by creating the angel we call Satan.

2. Imho, both are equal sins because both men attempted to pull folks back to Jesus in the end. I believe Ted Bundy repented to the best his iron seared conscience would allow at the time. Yes, I believe he repented. Saul repented after the vision, so tried to witness for Jesus.
Yet out of emotion, I am tempted to say Ted Bundy’s sin was much worse. Still he granted that interview to Dobson knowing full well who Dr. Dobson was. So both attempted to pull folks to Christ in the end. I recommend people watch that interview if possible. Bundy didn't get graphic, and he is well spoken. I believe he may have been possessed. I have no idea why God didn't deliver his mind from those wicked thoughts sparing all of those innocent people's pain, but he had his reasons.

In and of itself, not considering the whole picture, Ted Bundy's sin was MUCH worse.

Then, if Ted Bundy says he repented, the geniuness of his repentance is between him and God, not man.

 

[Brother Bob]

Then, if Ted Bundy says he repented, the geniuness of his repentance is between him and God, not man.

I agree TC;, I can't save even myself and sure can't keep anyone from going to heaven.

BBob,

 

[EdSutton]

Sorry about mistaken Ted Bundy for the one who ate young boys, cooked them on the stove and ate them. That is a sin, I just couldn't deal with. His name is Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer. I just think he went too far.

I am glad salvation is of the Lord and not me.

BBob,



1Ti 4:1¶Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1Ti 4:2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Tts 1:15Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

2Th 2:11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2Th 2:12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Gen 6:3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man,

TC; I thought you were a Calvinist who believed that there are those who God will not forgive if they were not prechosen??

Personally, I would not have wanted to join Jeffrey Dahmer for lunch!

But that has nothing to do with Biblical repentance. Nor does it have anything to do with whether or not Ted Bundy repented, either. I hope he did. But I am not the judge of that, thankfully.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

I don't believe the definition of repentance is a feeling or even encompasses a feeling necessarily. This is what BB keeps coming back to, due to his personal experience and other biblical examples of repentance which display sorrow.
It seems repentance usually accompanies a feeling of sorrow, and the feelings are helpful to resist the temptation when/if it arises again.

But if we require a feeling to accomplish anything God wants us to do, or to even call ourselves Christians, some would not have a chance.

We can attack people who do bad things and don't feel bad about them, call them sociopathic (adutlerers, rapists thieves etc) but why should anyone feel bad? Why wait to feel bad remaining to sin against God?


Edited: Btw, Ted Bundy was a killer and rapist, he didn't eat children or offend them. Not that it matters, it's still evil.

Gotta got to work for a while now, then come back and work at home.

Getting there, as to the relation of sorrow and repentance. Read this carefully, folks. Don't read into it what I am not sayng, nor hopefully what one has merely assumed from hearing it so often, please. The Scripture tells us this about sorrow and repentance in II Cor. 7:10. [There are two words here in this verse, in the Greek language, that are rendered "repentance" and "not repented of", in the KJV. The words are 'metanoia' and 'ametamelEtos'. The basic idea of 'metanoia' (the noun form of "metanoeO") is a change of mind. The word 'metanoeO' carries the basic meaing of "to think afterward". It is found in all but seven instances in the NT where the word rendered as a verb form (KJV) of 'repentance'. It specifically carries the idea of "thinking", as opposed to "feeling".]

The Scripture tells us that Judas "repented himself", but that is a different word and better rendered as remorse, as in the NKJV, NASB, and HCSB. This is also akin to Esau seeking a 'repentance' of Jacob, "with tears." This 'emotion' is not what has to do with salvation.

For Godly sorrow brings the change of mind that leads to an irrevocable salvation; but the sorrow of the world brings death. (II Cor. 7:10 - my translation)
10η γαρ κατα θεον λυπη μετανοιαν εις σωτηριαν αμεταμελητον κατεργαζεται η δε του κοσμου λυπη θανατον κατεργαζεται (TR1550: MT-Hodges/Farstad)
10η γαρ κατα θεον λυπη μετανοιαν εις σωτηριαν αμεταμελητον εργαζεται η δε του κοσμου λυπη θανατον κατεργαζεται (WHNU; UBS-Aland/Black/Metzger, et al.)

The disputed word in the Greek texts do not change the effective meaning, as I rendered it.

Nor is "turning" a part of "metanoeO". The word rendered as "turn' and 'convert' is "epistrephO" ((1994, Brother Bob)) and in not connected to "metanoezO" in any way. And it is found, BTW, always used in the passive sense, I believe, of "be turned", or "be converted" in the NT, with but one possible exception, if my memory serves (given my results of 'Old-timer's') and I don't have the time to look it up right now. But I could possibly be mistaken on this, I admit. Listen to Joe and reread my previous post.

Until one drops the notion of 'being sorry for sin' having to do with salvation, one may not get what Scriptures teach, nor actually have this necessary "repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." That is what we are trying to teach and go for, to reach the lost, and bring them to salvation. correct?

Gotta' run.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

I believe there are those who God will not strive with anymore but turned them over to hardness of heart to believe a lie and be damned. I don't know who they are but seems to me that Jeffrey Dahmer would fit into that category, if anyone does.

BBob,

 

[Joe]

Nowadays, with all of the porn readily available, tv shows, movies, ipods, etc...everyone's heart is hardened it seems. This stuff is TOO normal now for people to necessarily feel sorrow over. Even if a person fornicated or adulterered themselves, that's no guarantee of sorrow if it felt natural. Same with killing people (I imagine) or any other sin.
But slowly, or maybe immediately, there should be a change in heart to avoid these things if one has truly repented.

In the Bible, feelings are not to be trusted. They are to be ignored while we plug forward doing God's will.

Ed looks like he has it down pat.

From reading your posts BB, your salvation appears genuine. I really enjoy reading them. Off to work now

 

[npetreley]

Personally, I would not have wanted to join Jeffrey Dahmer for lunch!

I'm not going to second-guess God about who repents and who doesn't, but I have to admit people like Jeffrey Dahmer are my best argument for legalizing post-natal abortion.

 

[DHK]

I believe there are those who God will not strive with anymore but turned them over to hardness of heart to believe a lie and be damned. I don't know who they are but seems to me that Jeffrey Dahmer would fit into that category, if anyone does.
BBob,

So when the Lord says that he saves even "to the uttermost," you don't believe him, and call into question his very promises. You don't believe the promises of God??

I admit that I haven't read all the previous pages of this thread, but the Question is "What is repentance?" Let me answer that as far as it pertains to salvation.
1. First and foremost it is not sorrow. Feeling sorry for your sins won't get you anywhere but perhaps a pity party. Feeling sorry for your sins is actually selfishness. God doesn't want your sorrow. He wants genuine repentance.

2. Repentance is not "repent from all your sins" something that no man can do. How many sins have you committed before you were saved. Can you count them; can you even remember them? Are you able to sit there and count them out and repent of each individual sin. The command "to repent of all your sins" is not once found in the entire NT. Thus it is not a Biblical command. Salvation is by faith through Christ.

3. Repentance, as some have said, is the flip side of faith. Faith is confidence in the word of another, and in this case faith is confidence in the word of God. repentance is a change of attitude with respect to the authority of God. If I have repented I have changed my attitude to God's authority. Once I was rebellious to his authority, living in rebellion to his authority, living in sin, for the world and Satan and not for Him. Then I was saved. I changed my attitude with respect to his authoriy. Now instead of living in rebellion to God my attitude is changed and I will from now on live in submission to his authority. It is a change of attitude: one from rebellion against God's authority, and one towards God's authority. God's command concerning repentance always has a future outlook. It is towards God.

It has nothing to do with feeling sorry-throwing a pity party, being selfish, etc. It is a change of mind--a turn about. Once I was going one way. I got saved. Now I am going the opposite direction in obedience to God. It is a one hundred percent change of direction in a person's life. When it comes to salvation it is not sorrow for sin; but a turning from a sinful lifestyle and a turning to God--a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God.

 

[Brother Bob]

It has nothing to do with feeling sorry-throwing a pity party, being selfish, etc. It is a change of mind--a turn about. Once I was going one way. I got saved. Now I am going the opposite direction in obedience to God. It is a one hundred percent change of direction in a person's life. When it comes to salvation it is not sorrow for sin; but a turning from a sinful lifestyle and a turning to God--a change of mind with respect to one's attitude toward God.
__________________
DHK

The Hebrew and the Greek both disagree with you DHK, but what do they know??

Hebrew for "repented"

5162
nacham
naw-kham'
a primitive root; properly, to sigh, i.e. breathe strongly; by implication, to be sorry, i.e. (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself):--comfort (self), ease (one's self), repent(-er,-ing, self).

Strange all of the Hebrews believed it to be sorrow, I guess they were not educated enough though, what do you think?


DHK; Scripture says He will not strive with man always, not just me. Of course if you believe that adulterers go to heaven without repenting, what can you expect????

Greek for repentance;
3341
metanoia
metanoia
met-an'-oy-ah
from metanoew - metanoeo 3340; (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication, reversal (of (another's) decision):--repentance.


com·punc·tion
1 a: anxiety arising from awareness of guilt <compunctions of conscience>b: distress of mind over an anticipated action or result

Apparently the Greek also believed it to be a feeling of distress of mind!!!

 

[Brother Bob]

2. Repentance is not "repent from all your sins" something that no man can do. How many sins have you committed before you were saved. Can you count them; can you even remember them? Are you able to sit there and count them out and repent of each individual sin. The command "to repent of all your sins" is not once found in the entire NT. Thus it is not a Biblical command. Salvation is by faith through Christ.

Doctrine like this will cause people to go to hell!! God knows each and every sin you ever committed. You pray for forgiveness for all your sins, not just forgive me for my adultery...................

Jhn 8:21¶Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Psa 51:9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

 

[TCGreek]

I agree TC;, I can't save even myself and sure can't keep anyone from going to heaven.

BBob,

Well put. :thumbs:

 

[EdSutton]

Hebrew for "repented"

5162
nacham
naw-kham'
a primitive root; properly, to sigh, i.e. breathe strongly; by implication, to be sorry, i.e. (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself):--comfort (self), ease (one's self), repent(-er,-ing, self).

Strange all of the Hebrews believed it to be sorrow, I guess they were not educated enough though, what do you think?


DHK; Scripture says He will not strive with man always, not just me. Of course if you believe that adulterers go to heaven without repenting, what can you expect????

Actually, this is not the 'text' you are citing. but what James Strong says about the words.

I do not have an Hebrew lexicon or dictionary, other than what is is my Strong's Concordance, and if I did, would not be able to read it. But I do have two more Greek Lexicons, Thayer's and Wigram's. And I happen to understand a little Greek. (He runs the convenience market, where I shop!)

The words "metanoeO" and "metanoia" are derived from the words that literally mean "after" and "mind". The word, "metamelomai", found six times in the NT, means "after-feeling". That word is in the middle voice, meaning it refers to one's self, and one's emotions, as did Judas. Judas "repented" (KJV English), but this sorrow/repentance had not to do with salvation, at all.

That is not what is involved, nor does Scripture ever use this word (metamelomai) regarding salvation. It uses "metanoeO" and metanoia" several times. It is the "flip-side" of faith, as I and now DHK have said.

Once again, Joe, and now DHK are on the right track. It is not how you feel, that has one single thing to do with one's salvation. It is whom (God/Jesus) one's faith is "toward", and the resultant 'keeping' by God.

Ed

 

[TCGreek]

TC; I thought you were a Calvinist who believed that there are those who God will not forgive if they were not prechosen??

My doctrinal persuasion does not decide who is going to be saved.

 

[Brother Bob]

The words "metanoeO" and "metanoia" are derived from the words that literally mean "after" and "mind". The word, "metamelomai", found six times in the NT, means "after-feeling". That word is in the middle voice, meaning it refers to one's self, and one's emotions, as did Judas. Judas "repented" (KJV English), but this sorrow/repentance had not to do with salvation, at all.

Why does it mean so much to you that repentance includes sorrow?? Your own post show it means emotions.

2Cr 7:9Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

2Cr 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance (metanoia) to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Mat 3:8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: (metanoia)

Press on Ed to the prize of the mark of the high calling......

Judas "repented" (KJV English), but this sorrow/repentance had not to do with salvation, at all.

It takes 2 for a person to repent to salvation. It takes him and God. In Judas case God was not in the mix.

This makes the upteenth time we been on this subject Ed and I believe I am gaining ground..............

Now you will say, well this is not the "real" salvation.........:laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

So when the Lord says that he saves even "to the uttermost," you don't believe him, and call into question his very promises. You don't believe the promises of God??

Wonder what happened to Judas and Essau???? They both wanted to be saved to name a couple.

 

[EdSutton]

Why does it mean so much to you that repentance includes sorrow?? Your own post show it means emotions.

2Cr 7:9Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

2Cr 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance (metanoia) to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Mat 3:8Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: (metanoia)

Press on Ed to the prize of the mark of the high calling..... [smilie deleted]


It takes 2 for a person to repent to salvation. It takes him and God. In Judas case God was not in the mix.

This makes the upteenth time we been on this subject Ed and I believe I am gaining ground..............

Now you will say, well this is not the "real" salvation.........[smilie deleted]

:BangHead: :BangHead:

The best reason I can think to keep on banging my head against a wall, is because it feels so good when I stop. (I wish I could find an "exasperation smilie" to insert, here.) But I have to go for now, so will post back to this later.

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

Lighten up ED....................!!!!


Are you sorrow yet ???????????

 

[TCGreek]

Lighten up ED....................!!!!


Are you sorrow yet ???????????

I love this pic. :laugh:

 

[EdSutton]

Wonder what happened to Judas and Essau???? They both wanted to be saved to name a couple.

You have any Scripture to back up this claim??

Ed

 

[npetreley]

repentance is never having to say you're sorry