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what is repentance?
- Thread starter Chessic
- Start date
Brother Bob
New Member
Just these:
Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Jhn 6:71 He spake of Judas Iscariot [the son] of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Hbr 12:16 Lest there [be] any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright
Hbr 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Brother Bob
New Member
Don't matter if you say it, just as long as you are it.
According to Hebrew text and Greek text scripture.
Being an Islamist means never having to say you're sorry: World Islamic Call conference speaker : "We are not apologising
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/1408
I don't know about, repentance is never having to say you're sorry, got any scripture?
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John 6:70-71 speak oif Jesus choosing Judas as one of the twelve. It saysd nothing about Judas wanting to be saved.Brother Bob said:
Heb. 12:16-17 says nothing about Esau being saved, either. The repentance had to do with the blessing.
Salvation is not a 'birthright', but a "'New-birth' right", so to speak. And salvation is the 'gift of God', which is also different from any 'blessings' we get as a result of that salvation.
Ed
Brother Bob
New Member
This is the scripture that Paul was speaking of when he spoke of Esau, seems to be the lost to me.
Scripture was speaking about the "lost" and went on to include Esau, and for them not to be as Esau was.
It sure don't look good for Esau.
Esau may have been saved, but can you show me where he overcome being a fornicator and a profane person, seems to me the repentance would of had to work to be free from those things of which he sought with tears. I am open to scripture where Esau did repent of those things and it was accepted of God.? I know he wanted and tried to repent of those things but was rejected.
BBob,
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I'm not sure, BBob. I don't know if Esau's repentance was genuine initially. It may be that he was tearful he lost something, instead of truly sorrowful for his actions.Brother Bob said:
I never really studied Esau in depth...but I will probably now. The one thing that comes to mind was his reunion with Jacob. He seemed to have repented at that point, and his attitude and demeanor were totally different than when they were younger. I might be wrong, but will look into it some more.
Brother Bob
New Member
I agree with this Web; but Paul seem to think he was among those who would not be wit the Lord for as I posted above;
Then Paul goes on to include Esau in these who would not see the Lord.
I would not put up a struggle either way, but seems to me that Paul thought he was lost.
1. What does the writer mean in vs. 14 when he says "without holiness no man shall see the Lord?Brother Bob said:
2. What does the word "holiness" mean?
3. Are you as holy as God?
4. If that is the standard being referred to then none of will see God. Obviously that is not what is meant by that verse, and thus cannot be applied to Esau in a way that refers to salvation.
Are you perhaps referring verse 17? This verse can be very instructive in another translation. Look it up in the KJV and then read it here in the WEB which I am quoting for you:
Hebrews 12:17 For you know that even when he afterward desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for a change of mind though he sought it diligently with tears.
Note the accurate defintion of repentance: Repentance is substituted with the phrase, "change of mind," which is the exact definition of the word. This is what I have been emphasizing all along. Repentance is not sorrow; it is a change of mind--just as the Word itself states.
What this verse teaches is that Esau, even though afterward he desired to inherit the blessing, could not change his father's mind though he sought it diligently with tears. The reference is to Isaac. Isaac would not repent--would not change his mind, and no matter what Esau would do, there was no place found in Isaac for a change of his mind--for repenting from the decision that he had already mind. This has nothing to do with the salvation of Esau, only the blessing that Esau now wanted.
Brother Bob
New Member
Oh, Judas wanted to be around the "good ole boys", I see.
Brother Bob
New Member
You seem to be way behind DHK???
Rom 6:19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
1Th 4:7For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
Zec 14:21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
Hebrew for "repented"
5162
nacham
naw-kham'
a primitive root; properly, to sigh, i.e. breathe strongly; by implication, to be sorry, i.e. (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself):--comfort (self), ease (one's self), repent(-er,-ing, self).
Strange all of the Hebrews believed it to be sorrow, I guess they were not educated enough though, what do you think?
I am quite busy these days, and don't have all day to sit behind a computer.Brother Bob said:
To put it plainly you are dead wrong in your assessment.
1. We are speaking (and always have been) about salvation in the NT. If you don't believe me, go back to my original post where I defined this for you, and where this particular part of the discussion originated from.
2. Salvation in the OT was a bit different than in the OT. In the OT God was dealing with an entire nation. In the NT God is dealing with individuals. Thus the OT (believers) were repenting from sins already committed as believers or Jews that were called out as a nation unto God. That is the major difference.
3. You are taking a Hebrew word and forcing it into a NT situation--not good hermeutics. We are primarily talking about NT salvation. Let's get that into your head first.
4. Now that we have that settled the question that was put forth to you a long time ago now: What does the word repentance mean in respect to salvation? (NT was understood). Go back and check the original post of mine and see whether or not that was the statement that I was expounding. If it was, why are you bringing red herrings into this discussion that don't have anything to do with this topic.
5. That being the topic, what is the GREEK work used for repentance, a far more important and relevant question:
Of course Strong's is very limited in its definitions; Thayer's would be much more exhaustive and give you a better idea. The idea is still the same--reconsider--change of mind. It has nothing to do with sorrow whatsoever; not in the NT, and not concerning salvation.
Let me repeat: Sorrow has nothing to do with salvation. It never did. Not in the OT, and not in the NT. Rightly dividing the word of truth is something that needs to be worked at. Repentance is a change of mind, specifically a change of attitude in mind to one's attitude toward God.
Jesus said: If ye believe not ye shall die in your sins. Belief is the flip side of repent. Without true belief there is no true repentance; for God requires a repentant belief--Not sorrow, but a belief that will bring change--a change of attitude.
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Brother Bob
New Member
Do you know what "feel compunction is???? Apparently not.
compunction;
1 a: anxiety arising from awareness of guilt <compunctions of conscience> b: distress of mind over an anticipated action or result
Oh, how many times have you used King David to justify something in NT.
Psa 38:18For I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin.
You are fighting a losing battle DHK;
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