Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
The question has been raise on one thread concerning the question if in fact one can lose their salvation. I would like to raise the question , ‘What is Salvation by Faith?’
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What is Salvation by Faith?
- Thread starter Heavenly Pilgrim
- Start date
Salvation by faith:
One must define their terms when asking or explaining something these days.
'By faith' simply means that you are trusting in something without the benefit of seeing it.
For example; You walk across the room in your house and flip a switch to turn on the lights 'by faith' because you cannot see electricity. You can see what it does. You can see the results of its effects. You can even use its power but you cannot see it. But until you take some action 'by faith' that electricity will not help you one bit. It will continue to be available to you and to anyone who trusts its power but until you take action upon the offer of its power it is 'dead' or non-existant to you.
In like manner, we are saved 'by faith' in the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross on our behalf.
Ok?
One must define their terms when asking or explaining something these days.
'By faith' simply means that you are trusting in something without the benefit of seeing it.
For example; You walk across the room in your house and flip a switch to turn on the lights 'by faith' because you cannot see electricity. You can see what it does. You can see the results of its effects. You can even use its power but you cannot see it. But until you take some action 'by faith' that electricity will not help you one bit. It will continue to be available to you and to anyone who trusts its power but until you take action upon the offer of its power it is 'dead' or non-existant to you.
In like manner, we are saved 'by faith' in the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ on the cross on our behalf.
Ok?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Does the possibility exist that one might believe that he is saved but in actuality is not one of the elect?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: What do you mean by “seeing it?”
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
Read the rest of my post. The illustration makes it clear what I mean. But if you have trouble with that , then try this;
Joh 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Hope of Glory
New Member
gekko said:
Amen and amen!
Hope of Glory
New Member
av1611jim said:
The question was about salvation, not justification.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: My question is if in ‘seeing it’ ones sight allows for the possibility of error in ones perception. In your illustration it seems to equate ‘seeing it’ with absolute knowledge, at least to a degree. For instance, one indeed turns on the light switch 'by faith,' but the results is absolute knowledge, i.e. light.
In salvation, no absolute knowledge is available until we pass from this life into the next. Again, our knowledge of salvation ‘in this life’ never ends up with the absolute knowledge of the light being seen as in your illustration. That is why I asked you again what is “seeing it.”
Your illustration was good, although one must be careful how far he takes it. In almost all cases, where one is trying to illustrate spiritual truths with known realities, we run into difficulty somewhere.
Salvation by faith must allow for the possibility of error in ones perception, in contrast to your illustration that ends in absolute knowledge, or it does not remain as faith, again, in this 'present world.' Agree or disagree?
Personally I don't think eternal salvation has anything to do with election, but that is another subject. To answer your question yes the possibility does exist that one might believe that s/he is saved, but in actuality not be saved.
There are millions of Muslims, Hindus, Buhdists, Mormans, etc. that "believe" but they "believe" in the wrong thing. There are a number of "Christian" denominations that have questionable at best ideas on salvation.
I was reading through one church's material the other day and it talked about walking forward and expressing one's love for Christ for the first time. That's EXTREMELY dangerous ground if you ask me. If we want to be solid on salvation then we need to be discussing the death and shed blood of Jesus on the behalf of sinners. And that is by God's grace and His grace alone.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
JJ: But you can know because the Bible makes it real clear believe and you will be saved. So if you believe then you can know you are saved. The good news of salvation by grace through faith is so simple and easy to the praise and glory of God Almighty!
HP: I thought you said only God can know who is saved? Now you tell me we can know. Are you retracting the statement about only God knowing?
HP: I fully agree.
How then can one be sure? If one sits around long enough and repeats over and over “God’s grace has saved me, God’s grace has saved me,” until such a one starts to have convinced himself enough that he begins to have ‘faith’ it is accomplished, will such a one come to salvation? How can one be sure that what they wish they had, or hope that they have, or is trying to get, is not just ending up as deceit and not the real thing?
Can faith alone save you?
HP: I thought you said only God can know who is saved? Now you tell me we can know. Are you retracting the statement about only God knowing?
HP: I fully agree.
How then can one be sure? If one sits around long enough and repeats over and over “God’s grace has saved me, God’s grace has saved me,” until such a one starts to have convinced himself enough that he begins to have ‘faith’ it is accomplished, will such a one come to salvation? How can one be sure that what they wish they had, or hope that they have, or is trying to get, is not just ending up as deceit and not the real thing?
Can faith alone save you?
Darron Steele
New Member
Heavenly Pilgrim said:
That depends on whether or not we mean faith as the Bible means it or `believe' as in intellectual assent.
Some people believe that Jesus lived or maybe still lives, but do not do much about it nor see a need to. Such "believe" will not do it.
Now, biblical faith, that is a different matter. That is a faith that believes enough to actually want to do something with it. Galatians 5:6 “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, |but only | the kind of faith that works through love” (NASB|ESV|ICB).
James 2:14-26 builds on this. Although we are saved by faith before works are completed per Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:5, the faith must be the kind that would truly motivate us to act.
That being said, we can know if we are saved as 1 John 2:3 says: "By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments" (NASB). If our belief in the Gospel is enough to motivate us to obey, we know that we are saved.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: An excellent post Darron. That is one of the truths I have been trying to get across. Will faith in your faith save you if in fact your works are in direct opposition to the faith one lays their hope in? Scripture states that faith alone is dead. Faith must have some way to apply it’s object (salvation) to ones personal life. There has to be some way we can know that the faith we say and desire to have is truly well founded and can be applied to our lives personally.
At the initial act of salvation, one has the witness of the Spirit by the testimony of a clear conscience before God, and personal knowledge that indeed our heart is set upon God in repentance and faith in the atoning work of Christ, testified as well by the clear persuasion that if granted the time to live we will indeed trust, follow, and obey His Word. One has no problem understanding when he has been born again and had a change of heart towards sin. The key is to continue with that understanding and walk in a consistent manner with the light of our first estate, that clear and pure conscience before God and man, walking in the power of the Holy Spirit’s influences.
I believe it is just as you state here in accordance to the Word of God that our works, i.e. the intents formed by our will, are the indicator in this present world that our faith is not mere deception. If our faith motivates us to form intents consistent with the love for God and man that saving faith should imbibe, that is a clear sign that it is not mere deception.
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
You can not know, nor can I know someone else, but certainly you know whether or not you have believed in Christ or not. I know that I have believed that Christ died on the cross in my stead, died and shed His blood on my behalf, because I am spiritually dead and in need of a Savior. I know that I am saved, not based on me, but based on what God has told me through Scripture.
If I can never know for sure whether or not I am saved then what is the point of having Scripture? You just hope you do enough good things and when you die the good outweighs the bad?
That's not how Scripture lays it out. Scripture lays matters out so that we can know. I can know for myself and you can know for yourself and Joe Blow can know for himself, but I can't know for you or Joe Blow or anyone else. Salvation is an individual matter today.
Again it's not a matter of repeating something over and over and over again until you convince yourself of this reality. Faith is about believing what God said about a matter and it's over and done with.
Eternal salvation is not a lingering thing. You are either saved and it's time to move on to other things or you are not saved and you need to believe so that you can move on to other things
Because God doesn't speak in maybes. God speaks in certainties. If you believe you will be saved. Believe in the substitutionary death and shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God on your behalf a sinner and you are saved. There's no maybes. No hope sos. No might bes, could bes, want to bes, but believe and you ARE for sure no doubt about it saved.
When talking about eternal salvation the Bible says God's grace through faith is the ONLY thing that saves you. So I would say absolutely.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Who said or implied salvation “is by works?” Paper ducks make good targets but have no merit.