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What is Scripture?
- Thread starter Dr. Bob
- Start date
I have always said that the NKJV will eventually replace the KJV just as all the other KJV revisions have replaced the 1611, but it will require a new generation and possibly a few very minor corrections to the NKJV.
I would imagine the other revisions caused all sorts of yelling when released, until the next generation came along to accept them.
Obviously, somebody in the past didn't pay attention to this verse when they added well-meaning "small additions" to the manuscripts that turned up later and wound up in the KJV.
Note: I am NOT saying the KJV is not the Word of God! Yes, I know, double-negative. (I didn't like my English teacher.)
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
It's good to see ya again broPhillip! I'd wondered where ya wandered off to...and am so sorry to hear about your daddy.
Poor sisMichelle...another big bad burly boy to belt away at her and granny cant help...cuz I'm out grazing!
Oh~isn't the love of Jesus something wonderful?!
Poor sisMichelle...another big bad burly boy to belt away at her and granny cant help...cuz I'm out grazing!
Oh~isn't the love of Jesus something wonderful?!
GrannyGumbo
<img src ="/Granny.gif">
50 years from now there will be people saying your exact same words about the NKJV or some other version and rejoicing with the same sweetness and godliness that you do. Will that verify the usefulness of the NKJV?
"I'm not a betting person. I even try not to say the phrase "I bet..." but if I were one, I'd place every dime I had(even if I were a billionaire) on the fact that "NO", 50 yrs from now, the nkjv would NOT be tho't of in the same light as the Holy Bible I've used & my folks before me used & those before them used. I won't be around on earth to see this and I pray the Lord don't tarry His coming that long, but IF you should still be here, you'll remember.
"I'm not a betting person. I even try not to say the phrase "I bet..." but if I were one, I'd place every dime I had(even if I were a billionaire) on the fact that "NO", 50 yrs from now, the nkjv would NOT be tho't of in the same light as the Holy Bible I've used & my folks before me used & those before them used. I won't be around on earth to see this and I pray the Lord don't tarry His coming that long, but IF you should still be here, you'll remember.
In other words, your KJVO doctrine is something I cannot understand until the Holy Spirit reveals it to me. That is your consistent position about those who do not agree with you. That however, completely obliterates the first Baptist distinctive, and essentially removes you from the ranks of those who can accurately be called fundamentalists.
Maybe you don't understand the context of some of the scripture you are pasting in your posts with no application, but they have nothing to do with the issue at hand. I agree with all of them too.
Do you believe that only the AV1611 is inspired? and do you believe that I cannot study to discover this truth, but would have to be privileged by a work of the Holy Spirit in addition to his work in my salvation in order to recieve that truth.
That is dangerous ground, currently occupied primarily by cults and those in the charismatic movement.
Those who wrote scripture were allowed to say such things. To say them now, is dangerous, and is used by many as justification for unbiblical positions. Biblical Authority is a key component of fundamental Baptist doctrine.
Gal 1:6-12 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
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Maybe you don't understand the context of some of the scripture you are pasting in your posts with no application, but they have nothing to do with the issue at hand. I agree with all of them too.
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They have every bit to do with this issue. It is you who does not understand.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Maybe you don't understand the context of some of the scripture you are pasting in your posts with no application, but they have nothing to do with the issue at hand. I agree with all of them too.
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They have every bit to do with this issue. It is you who does not understand.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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Do you believe that only the AV1611 is inspired? and do you believe that I cannot study to discover this truth, but would have to be privileged by a work of the Holy Spirit in addition to his work in my salvation in order to recieve that truth.
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I have never said this.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Do you believe that only the AV1611 is inspired? and do you believe that I cannot study to discover this truth, but would have to be privileged by a work of the Holy Spirit in addition to his work in my salvation in order to recieve that truth.
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I have never said this.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Charles Meadows
New Member
Michelle,
Notice that Granny doesn't appeal to languages to defend her position. I don't agree with her but I don't see any problem with her belief - she's got faith in what she believes. The problem with your arguments is that you attempt to use languages and academic techniques - and you obviously have no familiarity with either!
If you believe the KJB only then just believe it! But why do you insist on debating that which you don't know?????
Notice that Granny doesn't appeal to languages to defend her position. I don't agree with her but I don't see any problem with her belief - she's got faith in what she believes. The problem with your arguments is that you attempt to use languages and academic techniques - and you obviously have no familiarity with either!
If you believe the KJB only then just believe it! But why do you insist on debating that which you don't know?????
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Those who wrote scripture were allowed to say such things. To say them now, is dangerous, and is used by many as justification for unbiblical positions. Biblical Authority is a key component of fundamental Baptist doctrine.
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Please tell me then, which one (of the many) is your final Biblical authority? And how is it that you know?
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Those who wrote scripture were allowed to say such things. To say them now, is dangerous, and is used by many as justification for unbiblical positions. Biblical Authority is a key component of fundamental Baptist doctrine.
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Please tell me then, which one (of the many) is your final Biblical authority? And how is it that you know?
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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The problem with your arguments is that you attempt to use languages and academic techniques - and you obviously have no familiarity with either!
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I have used faith, the scriptures and the truth to present my position to you all. Many others here are the one's attempting to use languages and academic techniques, not myself.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
The problem with your arguments is that you attempt to use languages and academic techniques - and you obviously have no familiarity with either!
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I have used faith, the scriptures and the truth to present my position to you all. Many others here are the one's attempting to use languages and academic techniques, not myself.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Any version that is an accurate tranlsation and does not use dynamic equivalance as the basis for translation.
How is that I know? To use michelle's reasoning "I just know, and if you would open your eyes and get your fingers out of your ears,let the Holy Spirit show you, then you would understand."
How is that I know? To use michelle's reasoning "I just know, and if you would open your eyes and get your fingers out of your ears,let the Holy Spirit show you, then you would understand."
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Any version that is an accurate tranlsation and does not use dynamic equivalance as the basis for translation.
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And by what scriptural authority do you make this judgement based upon? How is it, that "you" can determine what is "accurate" to what is not?
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Any version that is an accurate tranlsation and does not use dynamic equivalance as the basis for translation.
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And by what scriptural authority do you make this judgement based upon? How is it, that "you" can determine what is "accurate" to what is not?
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
It is quite obvious to those of us who have studied (and more than just read) that you do not have enough knowledge or the tools available to be able to accurately defend your position. You sound much like a person who has listened to someone else who is ignorant and you believe them just because they say they believe the Bible.
I have no doubt you believe the Bible. The problem is when you do not interpret scripture in light of its historical context. When you write a letter, you expect it to be interpreted in light of its historical context. Scripture is never to be interpreted in light of what does it mean to me but what does it mean?
Remember the KJV issue has two sides. From what I can tell you have not read the other side.
I would suggest you start with the book The King James Version Debate: A Plea for Realism by D. A. Carson
I can tell you that after several years of listening to preachers with confusing theologies I began to stop reading the Bible stopped witnessing and told God I wanted answers. I knew God existed but was so mixed up. The more I read the Bible the more unanswered questions I had. But when I had Dr. Lorin Cranford in seminary the confusion began to unravel. Finally I had reasons for my faith and began to lead more people to Christ than ever before. I had listened to those men who said they believed the bible and told me what to believe. But the problem came when I asked the tough questions and they had no answers. The preachers I asked didn't have answers. But Dr. Cranford did and it changed my life.
If you really want to find out the truth be like a judge and hear both sides them make the decision.
God did not translate the Greek and Hebrew into the English of the AV1611. I know this because in 1613 the corrections to the English text of AV1611 began and went on for 193 years.
Additionally, two AV Editions (Oxford, Cambridge) were published in 1611 which were and are still different.
The errors which were made in these two editions were BOTH types, translation errors as well as typos. We can go through the list again, one more time, if you wish.
God does not make mistakes, translators make mistakes, printers make mistakes.
Yes, and not just the words but also all the jots and tittles (of the Law anyway) as you reminded us, which jots and tittles, BTW I can't find in any revision or edition of the English text of the KJV (but I can in the Hebrew).
Did He guide them to include the Apocrypha, the source of many heresies for the Church of Rome as askjo has shown us.
Did He guide them to put this counterfeit Scripture between the covers of a book which they labeled The Holy Bible? If so Why?
HankD
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
The exact same way that you choose your favourite version. Through prayer and honest study.
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I have no doubt you believe the Bible. The problem is when you do not interpret scripture in light of its historical context. When you write a letter, you expect it to be interpreted in light of its historical context. Scripture is never to be interpreted in light of what does it mean to me but what does it mean?
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This is a very strange, foriegn and new understanding/definition of what the scriptures are and I do not hold to this same. Scriptures are the very words of the Lord for our growing in the Lord. Scripture is that by which the Lord speaks to us, and to that also which he uses to also chasten us. The scriptures are those to which REVEAL OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST and he is a personal Saviour, and a personal Lord, and therefore his words are to be interpreted and taken personally.
It is not I, but many others here, that refuse to look at the historical truth of this matter, and judge it by the standards the Lord has set down in his words of truth.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
I have no doubt you believe the Bible. The problem is when you do not interpret scripture in light of its historical context. When you write a letter, you expect it to be interpreted in light of its historical context. Scripture is never to be interpreted in light of what does it mean to me but what does it mean?
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This is a very strange, foriegn and new understanding/definition of what the scriptures are and I do not hold to this same. Scriptures are the very words of the Lord for our growing in the Lord. Scripture is that by which the Lord speaks to us, and to that also which he uses to also chasten us. The scriptures are those to which REVEAL OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST and he is a personal Saviour, and a personal Lord, and therefore his words are to be interpreted and taken personally.
It is not I, but many others here, that refuse to look at the historical truth of this matter, and judge it by the standards the Lord has set down in his words of truth.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
michelle said:
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The exact same way that you choose your favourite version. Through prayer and honest study.
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And by what scriptural authority do you make this judgement based upon?
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
The exact same way that you choose your favourite version. Through prayer and honest study.
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And by what scriptural authority do you make this judgement based upon?
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
The same ones you do and have so willingly shared with us.
I trust God to show me His wisdom in making a selection, just as you do.
I trust God to show me His wisdom in making a selection, just as you do.