What is Scripture?

[Scott J]

Originally posted by michelle:


Fruit bearing wasn't my criteria. I was replying to another poster who implied that it was.

Really? It wasn't you who said

"This is a matter of faith in God and faith in what He has said in HIS words about HIS words. You must believe the truth is a lie (Romans 1), in order to justify what has been done to God's words, and to which is FOREIGN to what the churches believed, lived, taught, kept and loved in their hearts, and to which bore great fruits."?

I fear you didn't even read my post.

Your fear should be that I am reading your posts... and then showing them to be drenched in error.

I am through responding to you.

That is your prerogative... but I am not through responding to you. When I see an error that no one else has responded to, I will oblige myself to show your folly. Why? Because this is important. If a false belief on the doctrine of scripture is allowed to spread unchecked through fundamental Baptist churches then other false beliefs are sure to follow.

You have made it clear, that you do not care to read anything with trying to understand, but only to argue and turn the discussion into assumptions that have nothing to do with this issue.

Actually when I have seemed argumentative, it has been an attempt on my part to get you to give me something that I could understand and evaluate. You refuse to post anything of substance, Michelle. The main gist of your posts is that "you say so." That simply isn't good enough.

You're partly right. Assumptions should have nothing to do with this issue... so why is it that your only proofs for the KJV being "God's very words" are your own unproven assumptions?

I sincerely hope that you won't stop engaging anyone who challenges you. But then again, you seem to make evasion of the truth a habit on this issue. You evade rebuttals, facts, scripture, etc.

Why are you running? Are you afraid that some day you won't be able to avoid the truth any longer? Many of us here know what it is like being KJVO and then having to deal with the fear that our false beliefs about the KJV will be replaced with doubt about God's Word. But there aren't just two (false) answers to the question. There is an answer that is both faithful to the scripture and to the historical, providential facts about the Bible and translations.

 

[gb93433]

Michelle:

I want you to think about how your view of second inspiration and how it parallels that of how Mormons claim their books came into being and how Muslims claim their books came into being.

 

[gb93433]

Michelle:

I can only judge things by what God has said, not what I think outside of what God has said.

Can you show me one verse where God says that any translation is inspired?

 

[michelle]

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I want you to think about how your view of second inspiration and how it parallels that of how Mormons claim their books came into being and how Muslims claim their books came into being.
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You already should have a very clear understanding of my position and why, as well as the testimony of my faith in Jesus Christ.
This above statement is just another one of your strawman tactics and is irrelevant to this issue.


What makes a Morman and a Muslim different than a christian is their belief in a false god and a false jesus. I am a blood bought, born again child of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

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Can you show me one verse where God says that any translation is inspired?
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Can you show me one verse where God says that any translation is not inspired?

Can you show me one verse where God says all versions are His words?

Can you show me one verse where God says he allows additions/subtractions to his words?

Can you show me one verse where God says he changes his words?

Can you show me one verse where God says he will not preserve his words?

Can you show me one verse where God says his saints will not have his words?

Can you show me one verse where God says his saints will not know his words?

Can you show me one verse where God says He is not in conrol over His words?

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Trotter]

Michelle wrote:
I am a blood bought, born again child of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

No one has said otherwise, Michelle.

But it is obvious that you have been indoctrinated by <snipped by moderator>. You already follow one of its main prophets, G.A. (God And) Ripplinger.

You are in my prayers.

In Christ,
Trotter

[ August 03, 2004, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

[GrannyGumbo]

So broTrotter~are you saying that because I have used only one bible all these many years I've been saved and have never been led to seek outside of it, that I'm an idolator?

 

[michelle]

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But it is obvious that you have been indoctrinated by the idolatry of KJV worship. You already follow one of its main prophets, G.A. (God And) Ripplinger.
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I haven't been indoctrinated by nor follow any man. I follow Jesus Christ. I don't worship the KJB, I worship the Lord Jesus Christ who is revealed in the KJB.

You are always in my prayers.

Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Trotter]

No, Granny. You know and use the KJV bcause you have always used it. I do not know of any instance of you trying to elevate the KJV into something supernatural. You just stand for and support what you have always used.

Michelle, on the other hand, is taking the word of the false prophets (Ripplinger, Ruckman, etc) as the equal of the Scriptures themselves.

The KJV is but a translation of the bible. It is not 'perfect' as it is the work of man, contrary to her constant insistance. What is truly sad is that she will not shut up her ranting long enough to actually look to see if what someone has said is true or not.

There is a difference to being King James preferred (your view) and being King James is Inspired (KJVO#4 or #5...Michelle will not answer as to which).

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[HankD]

michelle, you have been sold a bill-of-goods.

No translation can be perfect. When I post a fact concerning the KJV translators desire to refine their work by their revsioning you call it a "straw-man" when it is an undeniable proven fact of history.

Personally, is spite of your name-calling and labeling (howbeit by implication and innuendo) of yours truly, I intend to (when moved of the Spirit and Lord willing) reveal your double-standard cut and paste KJVO arguments.

In the meantime, I do love you as a child of God and joint heir with me in the kingdom of God.

HankD

 

[GrannyGumbo]

But I'm NOT king james 'preferred'...to say that would mean "oh, I prefer this over that" and that's not how it is at all; I don't recognize anything else as being a holy bible like I have.

I believe the Lord brought together the men who He wanted to put this final bible together till He comes back, which is very soon. The heat on this board is enough to convince me of that, plus all the evil out there that is waxing worse and worse.

I truly believe with all my heart that my bible IS perfect. It is God speaking. He is perfect. If it were flawed, then how would I know He is perfect? That would mean I wouldn't have anything I could count on to know Him by.

It is my "straight stick" as to how I can tell when all else is crooked. I wish I had the sense enough to explain it better, but I'm writing it just how I'm thinking it. Please don't laugh.

I've never seen once where michelle appears to worship these folks you mentioned. I don't consider her to be ranting either. Even when there are many who are coming against her, she has been steady & gracious. I have seen some who have been plumb mean to her.

 

[michelle]

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I believe the Lord brought together the men who He wanted to put this final bible together till He comes back, which is very soon. The heat on this board is enough to convince me of that, plus all the evil out there that is waxing worse and worse.

I truly believe with all my heart that my bible IS perfect. It is God speaking. He is perfect. If it were flawed, then how would I know He is perfect? That would mean I wouldn't have anything I could count on to know Him by.
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Oh Sister Granny - AMEN!!!!!

Thank you dear sister for sharing that with all of us, and the Lord Jesus Christ is truly glorified through your words. I have never heard a better explanation of the heart felt truth than this one. Thank you, thank you, thank you dear sis for brightening up my day!

Please post more often? I just love reading them.
May the Lord continue to richly bless you Granny.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[michelle]

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No translation can be perfect. When I post a fact concerning the KJV translators desire to refine their work by their revsioning you call it a "straw-man" when it is an undeniable proven fact of history.
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Hank,

I am sorry, you are correct, that this was not a straw-man, as it was a fact. I used the wrong word to describe it. I just cannot understand why it is this end of the discussion is always the main topic of concern. It doesn't make sense to me. These things were corrected. They are not a problem anymore. What is the point of continually harping on this same thing? There are more serious issues having to do with the modern versions, and no one seems to care. Anyway, I again apologize for calling your fact something it was not.

love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Hey sisMichelle! "Oh, you know when one can get a chuckle ever now and then, it helps to brighten up a day! Many laugh at my cornpone, ole-timey way of doing things and some could care less. Some even put me out to pasture!

Maybe the Lord uses me as a comic-relief or something, I dunno, but I'd love to be as smart as you.

Your dear husband, even tho' unsaved, is very understanding and please thank him for me for allowing you to be on here. I would not be here myself if my mister didn't permit it. I'd never have tho't in a million years I'd ever be on a computer.

It was our son getting caught-up in that oneness junk that started me. I'd never heard of it, till I learned on the 'net & how to combat it. Our town is about 90% tongue-talkers and I'm their perpetual thorn. The neat thing is other than our small group, they are the only ones who use the kingjames exclusively, but are only allowed to read the book of Acts.

Well, guess this is enough for now; hope I didn't mess-up anyone's train-of-thought. If they didn't start so many of these cotton-pickin' threads, ya might be able to get some rest, eh? ~Cya

 

[michelle]

Hiya Sister Granny!

Your last post cracked me up.

Thank you for that chuckle. Well, I just thank the Lord that he has enabled you and I to meet here, before we meet up there. You are a blessing to me.

How is your son doing? I will continue to keep him in my prayers and you and your family also.

I have never heard of the group you mentioned, but I have heard of charismatic christians using tongues. Is this basically what they are? Are they also with the Sons of God, Latter Day Rain, Apostles, Prophecy kind of things? How did he get hooked up in all that? Were they friends of his, or door to door? This is good information for me to know, since I have two little ones, not yet teens, and many nieces and nephews to consider and pray for. There are so many spiritually dangerous things out there today. I love my children, and God has blessed me with them, but these are scary times to be raisin the young ones. I pray I do a good job, and lead them in the ways of the Lord as I should. I know that you did Granny, and you know what? The Lord will pull him out of there. You brought him up in a loving, God loving, God fearing home, in the ways of the Lord, he will come back. I really feel for you Granny, and I will pray for you all.

I forgot that I knew how to use these little icons, they are neat. They can get a little troublesome though if posting alot.

Until we speak/read

again, may the Lord bless you and continue to keep you in his abounding grace, love and mercy.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[GrannyGumbo]

Just a quickie for michelle...these 'onenesses' here call themselves "Apostolics" and are a branch off the UPC. My son had a nice position in the local bank and met many of them like that. They befriended him and one thing led to another, and challenged him to a 'bible study'.

He was a deacon, and the treasurer of the church we belonged to at that time. He sang in the choir and was the youth director. He held several other positions, besides being a brand-new daddy. His plate was too full for one so young(27) and he collapsed. Satan stepped in.

 

[robycop3]

Granny Gumbo:But I'm NOT king james 'preferred'...to say that would mean "oh, I prefer this over that" and that's not how it is at all; I don't recognize anything else as being a holy bible like I have.

Then you're incorrect.

I believe the Lord brought together the men who He wanted to put this final bible

But it's NOT a "final Bible". There have been many more versions made since then.


together till He comes back, which is very soon. The heat on this board is enough to convince me of that, plus all the evil out there that is waxing worse and worse.

And the people of the 1600s were mostly paragons of virtue?

I truly believe with all my heart that my bible IS perfect. It is God speaking. He is perfect. If it were flawed, then how would I know He is perfect? That would mean I wouldn't have anything I could count on to know Him by.

And I truly believe that EVERY valid Bible in every language is perfect according to God's will. I believe each of them came out exactly as God chose, be it the Tyndale's, the KJV, Luther's, reina Valera, Niv or NKJV-and a lotta others.

 

[robycop3]

Granny Gumbo:these 'onenesses' here call themselves "Apostolics" and are a branch off the UPC.

I really hate to hear that about your son!

KJVO isn't the only false doctrine I fight...I fight the Oneness Pentecostal hooey also, among others. I believe they developed from the SDA.

Some of them tried almost the same thing with me, but I was armed with a more profound knowledge of Scripture, garnered from reading several Bible versions, including the Geneva Bible and AV 1611-and from praying for the HOLY SPIRIT to guide my tongue. I was able to plant a "seed" of doubt within two of them, and, PRAISE THE LORD, He saw fit to make that seed grow into a CORRECT relationship with Him! Believe me, those folks have rehearsed their act well, and it often takes GOD'S help to resist the devil as they present him!

Has your son recovered Spiritually, or should we pray for this recovery to occur?

 

[Orvie]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
But I'm NOT king james 'preferred'...to say that would mean "oh, I prefer this over that" and that's not how it is at all; I don't recognize anything else as being a holy bible like I have.

I believe the Lord brought together the men who He wanted to put this final bible together till He comes back, which is very soon. The heat on this board is enough to convince me of that, plus all the evil out there that is waxing worse and worse.

I truly believe with all my heart that my bible IS perfect. It is God speaking. He is perfect. If it were flawed, then how would I know He is perfect? That would mean I wouldn't have anything I could count on to know Him by.

It is my "straight stick" as to how I can tell when all else is crooked. I wish I had the sense enough to explain it better, but I'm writing it just how I'm thinking it. Please don't laugh.

I've never seen once where michelle appears to worship these folks you mentioned. I don't consider her to be ranting either. Even when there are many who are coming against her, she has been steady & gracious. I have seen some who have been plumb mean to her.

Sorry GG, but I remember you defending our ole friend "Precepts" too. I've seen Michelle's oneupmanship attitude, and her detractors as the gracious ones. Sorry, that's the way I see it!

 

[Orvie]

Originally posted by robycop3:
Granny Gumbo:these 'onenesses' here call themselves "Apostolics" and are a branch off the UPC.

I really hate to hear that about your son!

KJVO isn't the only false doctrine I fight...I fight the Oneness Pentecostal hooey also, among others. I believe they developed from the SDA.

Some of them tried almost the same thing with me, but I was armed with a more profound knowledge of Scripture, garnered from reading several Bible versions, including the Geneva Bible and AV 1611-and from praying for the HOLY SPIRIT to guide my tongue. I was able to plant a "seed" of doubt within two of them, and, PRAISE THE LORD, He saw fit to make that seed grow into a CORRECT relationship with Him! Believe me, those folks have rehearsed their act well, and it often takes GOD'S help to resist the devil as they present him!

Has your son recovered Spiritually, or should we pray for this recovery to occur?

I was told the Oneness heretics broke off from the Assemblies of God. They originally disowned them, but in modern times, when most care more for unity than doctrine....