What is Sin?

[The Biblicist]

All evil thoughts are 'not good', but everything 'not good' is not sin.

Yes, all "evil" thougths are not "good" thoughts.

No, everything "NOT good" is evil or it could not be defined as "NOT good.":BangHead::BangHead:

What defines "NOT good" but what is the TRANSGRESSION of the Law of God?

When you say a person is "NOT A GOOD" person than what kind of person is he? What is the opposite of "good"? Bad!

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Has anyone but myself seen a 'good person' lately?

All evil thoughts are 'not good', but everything 'not good' is not sin.

 

[The Biblicist]

Has anyone but myself seen a 'good person' lately?

When the Bible speaks of "good" in the context of salvation it is always from the perpective of the Law of God never from the relative view of human to human.

The Law has one standard for "good" and it is not RELATIVE goodness but ABSOLUTE goodness and that is why Jesus said to the rich young ruler seeking eternal life by doing good before God that there are "none good but one and that is God."

On the other hand, Human beings judge each other by a RELATIVE standard. By relative standards you may be a "good" person in comparison to another person.

Relative goodness has a wide scale - real good, pretty good, fairly good, good, not so good, fairly bad, real bad, evil, demonish.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

James is certainly clear as to when sin is conceived, and sin is not conceived at the point of a mere thought or temptation upon the mind. Those temptation and thoughts are not good, for they are strong forces upon the will of man to sin, but are NOT sin until the will chooses to form intents in agreement with those temptations and thoughts. A transgression of the moral law ALWAYS involves willful intent, for moral law ONLY rules over the intents and subsequent actions of the heart. Morality can only be predicated of willful intents and actions, NOT involuntary actions or passing thoughts serving as mere temptation. Again read James as to 'when' sin is conceived.

 

[Amy.G]

All evil thoughts are 'not good', but everything 'not good' is not sin.

Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:


Jesus put evil thoughts right up there with murder, adultery, fornication, theft, lying, and blasphemy. Yet you have redefined "evil" as being "not good" and not sin.

Really??????

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Sin is wicked and deserving of God's wrath. Just because one is tempted to sin, or has a passing thought of evil seducing one to sin, is no sign sin, on the part of the one being influenced to evil, is involved on their account.

Sin is blameworthy. To blame and punish one for eternity for having eyes or ears that might encounter evil and thereby tempted to selfishness, or think concerning a wicked thought, which is in realty not sin in and of itself, is a most wicked thought. (One reasoning in such a manner does not even necessarily sin by doing so, but rather is simply showing their ignorance as to what sin entails)

Read James once again if one cannot (or most likely simply ' will not') reason via your God given capabilities of first truths of reason involving matters of immutable justice.

Here is one such foundational moral principle, a first truth of reason: In order to do anything blameworthy or praiseworthy, one must have choice, not only simply to do as some say, "freedom to do as one wills" but rather free to choose something other than what one does under the very same set of circumstances.

The freedom expressed in proper moral blame always involves choices made by sentient beings that are in reality, first causes of their intents and subsequent chosen action. No freedom of contrary choice? No proper or just moral blame can be predicated of any such act of necessity.

 

[The Biblicist]

James is certainly clear as to when sin is conceived, and sin is not conceived at the point of a mere thought or temptation upon the mind. Those temptation and thoughts are not good, for they are strong forces upon the will of man to sin, but are NOT sin until the will chooses to form intents in agreement with those temptations and thoughts. A transgression of the moral law ALWAYS involves willful intent, for moral law ONLY rules over the intents and subsequent actions of the heart. Morality can only be predicated of willful intents and actions, NOT involuntary actions or passing thoughts serving as mere temptation. Again read James as to 'when' sin is conceived.

James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James is using "tempted" in an evil sense. Being tempted in an evil sense is when a man is drawn toward evil bait by his own evil lusts. The bait simply makes manifest the evil lusts which are evil desires/thoughts.

Once, the bait to sin is embraced by sinful lusts, sin is conceived as evil thoughts and evil thoughts "bringeth forth" or conception produces EXTERNAL birth or manifestation of sin by evil words and deeds.

Recognition of evil is not sin. However, recognition of evil joined with evil desires conceives sinful thoughts which in turn birth sinful manifest words and deeds.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

The question is not whether or not something is thought of in an 'evil' sense, but rather is everything that is 'in a sense' evil sin? The answer is no. Temptation may be evil but there is no sin involved in the one being tempted until they yield their will in agreement with the temptation.

 

[The Biblicist]

Temptation may be evil but there is no sin involved in the one being tempted until they yield their will in agreement with the temptation.

James mixes the metaphors of hunting with conception and child birth. The Greek terms translated "draws out" ("exelko") and "enticed" ("deleazo") come from fishing or hunting where an animal is drawn out of its hiding place by bait. The evil temptation is the bait. What is drawn out are "evil lusts." Where they are drawn out from in the saved man is "in my flesh" (Rom. 7:17,20) but in the lost man they reside in the heart according to Christ ("out of the heart proceed" - Mt. 15:19).

In either case, evil lusts are RESIDENTS of the fallen nature that do not need to be concieved but simply drawn out from their hiding place.

As soon as they join themselves with the temptation hidden sinful thoughts are concieved which in turn births manifest sinful words and actions.


Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Rom. 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

The fallen nature (unregenerated heart in the lost or "the flesh" in the saved) is where resident evil lusts reside. What is "conceived" is the SPECIFIC sin corresponding to the SPECIFIC temptation. However, resident evil resides continually in remnants of the unregenerated nature.

 

[steaver]

The question is not whether or not something is thought of in an 'evil' sense, but rather is everything that is 'in a sense' evil sin? The answer is no. Temptation may be evil but there is no sin involved in the one being tempted until they yield their will in agreement with the temptation.

HP, can you give us all an honest answer, tell us how often you believe you sin. Everyday, twice a week, once a year, never, etc, etc. I ask because many of your post seem to suggest that you don't sin.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver, even Paul said he was not his own judge and therefore did not say he was the judge of himself. Paul did tell us that our conscience testifies and bears witness of our relatonship between God and ourself, when it is clear between man and clear between God and ourselves. God will be our final judge. I will let Him that knoweth the beginning from the end tell you all if He so chooses, all in due time.

I will tell you it is NOT my testimony that I sin every day in thought word and deed. It is not my testimony that I have acted today in a manner unpleasing to my Heavenly Father. My desire is to live before the Lord, with the help He proffers, in a manner pleasing to Him. Does love towards God demand anything less? My goal is to walk in such a way as to be found blameless and without fault when He comes for us again. If I sin, I have an Advocate , but I do not take for granted automatic forgiveness, nor do I believe I can walk away from God, turn my back on Him and His Word, and be found in Him in the last day. Repentance is the way to forgiveness. I believe it is a fearful thing, that every wise man should carefully consider, i.e., to fall into the hands of the Living God.

 

[mont974x4]

Too often we think too narrowly on the subject of sin.

Transgression
H6588
פּשׁע
pesha‛
peh'-shah
From H6586; a revolt (national, moral or religious): - rebellion, sin, transgression, trespass
A transgression is a willful act of rebellion against an establish law. David’s transgression was adultery. He knew the law, and he crossed the line anyways. When the nation was following false gods, it was committing a transgression.
Is a transgression always a wrong? No. A transgression can be crossing the line concerning moral, physical, or national laws. If I am speeding I am transgressing the law of the land. What if I am a cop and I am speeding to catch a murderer, or a thief, or to get to the scene of an accident quickly? In these cases I am transgressing, but I am not committing a wrong.
For our purposes we need to focus on the wrongs. It is willfully ignoring the Word of God resulting in choosing to rebel against His Law and His authority. This impacts our relationship with Him, and as we see in Psalm 51 we need to rely on God to cleanse us from our transgressions.

Iniquity
H5771
עוון עון
‛âvôn ‛âvôn
aw-vone', aw-vone'
From H5753; perversity, that is, (moral) evil: - fault, iniquity, mischief, punishment (of iniquity), sin.
We do not know what David did to justify his actions, but he admits to iniquity being a problem that he needed God to handle in Psalm 51. What we do know for sure is that David twisted the Word in order to justify His actions. We twist the Word to justify our own iniquity. How often is gossip disguised as a prayer request or false concern for someone else? Some people pervert the Word to support racism or tax evasion. How about when we hammer on someone for taking a stand that differs from ours on a biblical issue, but we label it as contending for the faith? I am sure we can all see how iniquity is a “wrong” and it has a negative impact on our relationship with God. This perversion or twisting, of the Word, has a lasting impact on our character as this leads to established habits and sinful lifestyles. These impact future generations, for example we see racism being passed on to kids. Another would be the increased likelihood of kids being abusive or addicted to drugs and alcohol if those are issues for their parents.
I found the word “iniquity” in 2 places in the NASB. The first was in Peter’s rebuke of Simon the sorcerer in Acts 8. The second was as a description of the tongue in James 3. (OUCH! I see some good sermon material there, but for another day.)

Sin
H2403
חטּאת חטּאה
chaṭṭâ'âh chaṭṭâ'th
khat-taw-aw', khat-tawth'
From H2398; an offence (sometimes habitual sinfulness), and its penalty, occasion, sacrifice, or expiation; also (concretely) an offender: - punishment (of sin), purifying (-fication for sin), sin (-ner, offering).

The OT has few different words (8) for sin and they are built on

H2398
חטא
chata (306c); a prim. root; to miss, go wrong, sin: - bear the blame (2), bewildered (1), bore the loss (1), bring sin (1), cleanse (5), cleansed (1), cleansing (1), commit (2), commits sin (1), committed (21), done wrong (1), errs (1), fault (1), fear...loss (1), forfeits (1), indicted (1), miss (1), offended (1), offered it for sin (1), offers it for sin (1), purged (1), purified (2), purified themselves from sin (1), purify (6), purify him from uncleanness (1), purify himself from uncleanness (2), reach (1), sin (55), sin have I committed (1), sinful (1), sinned (87), sinner (7), sinning (4), sins (23).

The root of all the Hebrew words is chata, and means to miss or go wrong.

G264
ἁμαρτάνω
hamartanō
ham-ar-tan'-o
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.
To sin is to miss the mark. Like an archer who launches an arrow at a target but it falls short. I intend to hit the bull’s-eye, I intend to love my neighbor, but I fail sometimes. This is sin. It is not rebellion. It is not intentional. It is not twisting the Word to justify myself and my actions.
Again, like the word “sin” in the OT we also find numerous words in the NT that build off of this key word.

 

[DaChaser1]

Steaver, even Paul said he was not his own judge and therefore did not say he was the judge of himself. Paul did tell us that our conscience testifies and bears witness of our relatonship between God and ourself, when it is clear between man and clear between God and ourselves. God will be our final judge. I will let Him that knoweth the beginning from the end tell you all if He so chooses, all in due time.

I will tell you it is NOT my testimony that I sin every day in thought word and deed. It is not my testimony that I have acted today in a manner unpleasing to my Heavenly Father. My desire is to live before the Lord, with the help He proffers, in a manner pleasing to Him. Does love towards God demand anything less? My goal is to walk in such a way as to be found blameless and without fault when He comes for us again. If I sin, I have an Advocate , but I do not take for granted automatic forgiveness, nor do I believe I can walk away from God, turn my back on Him and His Word, and be found in Him in the last day. Repentance is the way to forgiveness. I believe it is a fearful thing, that every wise man should carefully consider, i.e., to fall into the hands of the Living God.

have you reached a state of sinless perfection then?

 

[steaver]

Steaver, even Paul said he was not his own judge and therefore did not say he was the judge of himself.

Not sure what passage you are refering to. Paul spoke of different points of judging or judgment, spiritual judgment, judging another person's liberties, etc. I ask you to judge yourself and confess if you do actually sin from day to day or whatever the time line may be. This is biblical, both judging thyself and confessing to one another.

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged" (1Cr 11) Paul speaking of our sins.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

 

[The Biblicist]

1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

So, you could be sinning every day since you are unable to judge yourself concerning sin?

 

[DaChaser1]

So, you could be sinning every day since you are unable to judge yourself concerning sin?

UNLESS he has reached the state of sinless perfection!

 

[steaver]

1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

This passage is not about judging another person's sins. The context is about judging one's motives and works for Christ. Christ will judge these at the judgment seat of Christ (2Co 5:10). You misapplied this verse to my question about your sins. Nor is Paul speaking about a judgment as to whether you get your final entrance into eternal life.

Would you like to answer my question about how often you believe you sin? Is it everyday, once a week, maybe once a month.

Remember HP, there is a vast amount of actions that are considered sin defined in the scriptures. My toughest one is the tongue, I think I sin at this one everyday, and I know I look a bit too long at a pretty girl in some of these commercials and tv shows. It's tough living in a world among the ungodly. Boy, if it wasn't for the grace of God I would surely be sentenced to hell each and every day. Yet I strive for holiness and press towards the mark of the high calling in Jesus Christ.

 

[DHK]

1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
1Co 4:4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

Just suppose you walked into Biblicist's church. They find out who you are and what you believe. It is terrible doctrine (according to them), and they condemn you for it (judge you). You say that your doctrine is Biblical and you got it straight from the Bible. Thus you can say to them:

"It is a very small thing that I should be judged of you (you don't really care), or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self (God does).

For I know nothing of myself (it is from the Bible), yet am I not hereby justified; but he that judgeth me is the Lord."

Such was the case with Paul. He had started the church, but false teachers had crept in. He was rebuking them. He wasn't going to sit around and be condemned or judged by them. He really didn't care what their opinion was. Paul was accountable to the Lord. The Lord would judge him--not them, not even himself.
That is the meaning here.

 

[DaChaser1]

Just suppose you walked into Biblicist's church. They find out who you are and what you believe. It is terrible doctrine (according to them), and they condemn you for it (judge you). You say that your doctrine is Biblical and you got it straight from the Bible. Thus you can say to them:

"It is a very small thing that I should be judged of you (you don't really care), or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self (God does).

For I know nothing of myself (it is from the Bible), yet am I not hereby justified; but he that judgeth me is the Lord."

Such was the case with Paul. He had started the church, but false teachers had crept in. He was rebuking them. He wasn't going to sit around and be condemned or judged by them. He really didn't care what their opinion was. Paul was accountable to the Lord. The Lord would judge him--not them, not even himself.
That is the meaning here.
[/SIZE]

better example would be saying tht you had walked into a RCC!