What is the Baptism With the Holy Ghost?

[utilyan]

Utilyan, most of this makes little sense.

There is more than one baptism, the One Baptism Paul speaks of is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, whereby the believer is baptized into God, Christ, the Spirit.

Address what I said about the "water" and we can take it from there.

You, like Nicodemus, are thinking carnally, physically, and Christ makes it clear that is not what being born of water and the Spirit refers to.

You can witness a man eating a cheeseburger, but you cannot witness a man being born of God. Being born of God, as shown to you in the passages quoted...

...is accomplished as a spiritual process invisible to the eye, and utilizes the Word of God,, specifically, the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not physical water.

So for now I will focus on one point you tried to make: do you still feel that God was baptizing with water, because you thought Christ was baptizing with water?

Do you not see that what Christ is foretold of baptizing with is the Spirit of God?

No water in that, amigo.


God bless.

I'm going to pose the same questions Nicodemus and the Pharisees received.

12“If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

What EARTHLY thing did Jesus tell Nicodemus that he didn't believe?




You don't believe earthly things like water do anything, Neither did Nicodemus.

If you can't trust Jesus on a earthly level you can forget spiritual level.


25“The baptism of John was from what source, from heaven or from men?”

What stumped the Pharisees stumps you:
If you say its from heaven, Then why don't you believe baptism does anything?

And if you say its from Men, then you don't accept John as a prophet.

 

[Darrell C]

I'm going to pose the same questions Nicodemus and the Pharisees received.

12“If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

What EARTHLY thing did Jesus tell Nicodemus that he didn't believe?




You don't believe earthly things like water do anything, Neither did Nicodemus.

If you can't trust Jesus on a earthly level you can forget spiritual level.


25“The baptism of John was from what source, from heaven or from men?”

What stumped the Pharisees stumps you:
If you say its from heaven, Then why don't you believe baptism does anything?

And if you say its from Men, then you don't accept John as a prophet.

And that s why you are not understanding John 3, Utilyan, the Lord is not telling Nicodemus about earthly things...He is telling him about heavenly things, which is...

...being born of God.

Nicodemus responds with an earthly understanding, and Christ rebukes him for not understanding. So that nullifies that Nicodemus' understanding can be applied to what Christ is teaching. Then we would not have Christ rebuking him for not knowing, we would have Christ saying "Not that kind of physical birth, Nicodemus!"

There is nothing about baptism in His teaching at all, it is only of birth. And the birth He teaches is that of being born of God, which is not a visible baptism, but like the wind...cannot be witnessed.

Now, do you still believe God baptized with water? Where, when, and how?


God bless.

 

[utilyan]

Jesus is quite clear water and spirit. He didn't say spirit only.

Believing the earthly things is a requirement to believing the spiritual.

Again your just taking the very BACKWARD message.

That we must believe the heavenly to believe the earthly.

Instead you should believe what the bible says straight forward not backwards.


You aren't answering the simple question, neither could the Pharisees.

25“The baptism of John was from what source, from heaven or from men?”






Acts 2
37Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Peter doesn't sound anything like you. You would not have given the same answer.

Can I figure what you believe? Well lets run this passage BACKWARDS.

BACKWARDS BACKWARDS BACKWARDS

First receive the gift of the holy spirit then you can repent and don't have to be baptized.

BACKWARDS BACKWARDS BACKWARDS.

Repent(change of mind) from reading all scripture backwards, become a REAL bible believing Christian. not a fake backward Christian.

Believe that the scripture is the truth instead of telling everyone its false and having to rewrite it backwards.


We are given a divine order of things.

Matthew 6
14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

I love the bible, I love Jesus, Amen exactly to what he says.

But the devil hates Jesus, runs mockery, needs it BACKWARDS:

For if your father forgives your transgression, then you will forgive others.

James 2

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

BACKWARDS:
You see that a man is justified by Faith alone and not by works.


Seriously, is there any scripture at all that you accept and understand exactly as written rather then changing words or reading it backwards?

 

[Darrell C]

You aren't answering the simple question, neither could the Pharisees.

25“The baptism of John was from what source, from heaven or from men?”

Speaking of not answering questions, here is the same one again: how is this showing God baptizing with water, Utilyan?

John's baptism did not save the first person, that is why John's disciples had to be first Baptized with the Holy Ghost, then...

Baptized in the Name of Christ.

You say I am backwards, lol, the fact is that you have water baptism, and this of John, then...the Baptizer Christ baptizing with water rather than the only baptisms presented that He does perform, a baptism with the Holy Ghost, and a baptism with fire.

In Christian Baptism...it is disciples of Christ performing those baptisms, as commanded by Christ.

So again I ask...are you still saying God, or Christ...baptize with water? Where is your Scripture?


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Acts 2
37Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Peter doesn't sound anything like you. You would not have given the same answer.

No, I do not sound anything like Peter, because I do not present to a modern audience that which would confuse them, but maintain the order that is the pattern of the New Testament, which Peter did not have when he made this statement.

That doesn't mean Peter is wrong, it simply means your proof-texting is wrong. Because you assign a sequential quality that is denied when we balance the teachings of baptism, doesn't mean that sequence is actually there.

Peter is calling for repentance and open confession of Christ, and the bottom line is that those that do so will receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, which is salvation itself.

BACKWARDS:
You see that a man is justified by Faith alone and not by works.

I do, that is simply what Scripture teaches.

That does not mean that works are divorced from the matter of faith.

The question is, when you go into James and try to understand his teaching concerning Abraham's works, are you equating Abraham's justification with salvation?

If you are, then you are saying that Abraham was not saved by faith and works, what you are saying is that Abraham was saved by his own personal actions, such as going where God told him to, and offering up Isaac. That is the only logical conclusion one can come to, so now here is another question:

Was Abraham saved by offering up Isaac?


James 2

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


You are seeing this as "Was not Abraham saved by works, when he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?"

That is not what it says, is it? It states he was justified.

He was saved by grace through faith. Paul makes it clear that it was not of works, and we see that faith stands alone in regards to being saved. Abraham was justified by faith, true, but...

...he was saved by the grace of God, which, if you back up in Genesis you will see that Abraham's salvation is the result of God calling him, and leading him in the way he should go.

That we might prove our faith with works does not mean we can be saved by performing works.


So just to reiterate, here is the question...

...was Abraham saved by offering up Isaac?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Seriously, is there any scripture at all that you accept and understand exactly as written rather then changing words or reading it backwards?

How am I reading anything backwards, lol.

I asked you a simple question based on your own statement, and you will not answer.

Now answer: do you still want to say that God, or Christ...baptized with water?

The only immersion you will find in Scripture concerning God is...

...the Flood.

And you cannot make that a salvific experience, it was one of judgment, and those who underwent that baptism perished. Just ask Peter about that.

And you could also include the parting of the dry sea, but, the problem you are going to have with that Baptism unto Moses was that it is Moses they are associated with and they...

...never get wet.




So show me the Biblical justification for your statement.

I can already tell you, it is not there, and water baptism is not the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, nor do men immerse the lost into God.

So it is not me that is sdrawkcab.


God bless.

 

[awaken]

Okay, another simple question that demands a not so simple answer. Please refrain from responding to the Poll with "None of the above" unless you include a poll addition with it (something you feel you could choose if it were on the Poll).

God bless.

I have read this thread through quickly. Very impressed with how you are explaining yourself Darrell!
I have been away from the board for awhile. Had trouble explaining myself without copy and pasting from others... So I hope I do not get misunderstood trying to answer in my own words.

I believe the Spirit within and upon are two separate experiences. Jesus was already born from above, right? When Jesus was baptized in water the Holy Spirit came upon Him for power.

"When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove." (Luke 3:21-22)

"You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached-- how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him." (Acts 10:37-38)


I see Jesus baptized in water and then He received the Holy Spirit (not as a guarantee of His salvation, but for spiritual empowerment).

Didn't Jesus begin His ministry after receiving the Holy Spirit and power?

Jesus is the Son of God! Scriptures show us that He received the empowerment of the Holy Spirit for His earthly ministry.

The work of the Holy Spirit is within and without. Fruit of the Spirit is a result of the indwelling presence. The manifestation of the Holy Spirit of 1 Corinthians 12 is a result of upon.
Throughout the OT doesn't the Holy Spirit come upon people?

Acts 1:8 tells us that we will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon us and we shall be witnesses.

 

[utilyan]

Scripture states there is only one baptism.

IF the water baptism is not from Jesus a False baptism then say that then. But don't say Its false, useless.....and well lets go do it.

Romans 6
3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

The apostles and hearers of our lord continued to do baptism with water.


Acts 8

34The eunuch answered Philip and said, “Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?” 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him. 36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, “Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?” 37[And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”] 38And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.

What are we going to say if we were there? No. baptism won't do anything. Its fake, you need the REAL baptism the one from Jesus.

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus is quite clear water and spirit. He didn't say spirit only.

Believing the earthly things is a requirement to believing the spiritual.

Again your just taking the very BACKWARD message.

That we must believe the heavenly to believe the earthly.

Instead you should believe what the bible says straight forward not backwards.


You aren't answering the simple question, neither could the Pharisees.

25“The baptism of John was from what source, from heaven or from men?”






Acts 2
37Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Peter doesn't sound anything like you. You would not have given the same answer.

Can I figure what you believe? Well lets run this passage BACKWARDS.

BACKWARDS BACKWARDS BACKWARDS

First receive the gift of the holy spirit then you can repent and don't have to be baptized.

BACKWARDS BACKWARDS BACKWARDS.

Repent(change of mind) from reading all scripture backwards, become a REAL bible believing Christian. not a fake backward Christian.

Believe that the scripture is the truth instead of telling everyone its false and having to rewrite it backwards.


We are given a divine order of things.

Matthew 6
14“For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

I love the bible, I love Jesus, Amen exactly to what he says.

But the devil hates Jesus, runs mockery, needs it BACKWARDS:

For if your father forgives your transgression, then you will forgive others.

James 2

24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

BACKWARDS:
You see that a man is justified by Faith alone and not by works.


Seriously, is there any scripture at all that you accept and understand exactly as written rather then changing words or reading it backwards?

The Baptism of/in the Holy Spirit is that act of His where he places all who are now saved to spiritual union with jesus and the Body of Christ.

Done one time, at moment of conversion, when the sinner receives Jesus by Faith, never to get repeated...

Water Baptism is to be done after believers have received jesus thru faith, and that is a symbolic showing of them having already been made spiritually alive again by God!

NONE Baptized by the Holy Ghost are lost, many who have had water baptisinf still are, as physical water has no inherit power to cleanse and remove sins, not change the nature of the sinner!

 

[utilyan]

The Baptism of/in the Holy Spirit is that act of His where he places all who are now saved to spiritual union with jesus and the Body of Christ.

Done one time, at moment of conversion, when the sinner receives Jesus by Faith, never to get repeated...

Water Baptism is to be done after believers have received jesus thru faith, and that is a symbolic showing of them having already been made spiritually alive again by God!

NONE Baptized by the Holy Ghost are lost, many who have had water baptisinf still are, as physical water has no inherit power to cleanse and remove sins, not change the nature of the sinner!

Acts 22
16‘Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

So God's power is limited unable to make mere water convey the removal of sins.


Suppose then Christ death is not physical necessity to take sins of the world away.

Jesus could have taken sins of the world away by eating a cheeseburger.

In other words, Everything physical is only symbolic in light of only the spiritual counts. But how do you dictate well This physical act over here really did something for us and this one , even though God created and declared this physical act as righteous and saving it does not because its physical.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I believe that it is the receiving of the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit at salvation. Perhaps also regeneration is the same thing.

 

[utilyan]

I believe that it is the receiving of the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit at salvation. Perhaps also regeneration is the same thing.

Jordan, if you had it you would know it.




And it doesn't take long to find folks easily curved by peer pressure, pretending and telling their own what they want to hear.

I got saved last week, holy spirit came and woosh, quit drinking i'm regenerated, saved by Jesus Christ now I'm a going to get baptized next week.

You don't know if you got regenerated when the holy spirit came? what is wrong with you?

No.

I believe God is close to everyone.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Jordan, if you had it you would know it.




And it doesn't take long to find folks easily curved by peer pressure, pretending and telling their own what they want to hear.

I got saved last week, holy spirit came and woosh, quit drinking i'm regenerated, saved by Jesus Christ now I'm a going to get baptized next week.

You don't know if you got regenerated when the holy spirit came? what is wrong with you?

No.

I believe God is close to everyone.

Wow. You completely took what I said out of context.
I know when I got saved and accepted Christ that I received the Indwelling of the Spirit. I was a drug addict and involved in several other horrible sins...there was a huge inner change and I know for a fact I am regenerated.

What is in question so what the "Baptism of the Holy Ghost" is.

I do not have any doubts whatsoever of I have been regenerated or if I have the Holy Spirit.

What I am not 100 percent sure of is what exactly the phrase
"Baptism of the Holy Ghost" means.

Don't take what I say out of context, you don't know me or my testimony
at all. I can give you a list of people in my Church who have seen the change in my life that took place when I got saved years ago.

 

[Yeshua1]

Acts 22
16‘Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’

So God's power is limited unable to make mere water convey the removal of sins.


Suppose then Christ death is not physical necessity to take sins of the world away.

Jesus could have taken sins of the world away by eating a cheeseburger.

In other words, Everything physical is only symbolic in light of only the spiritual counts. But how do you dictate well This physical act over here really did something for us and this one , even though God created and declared this physical act as righteous and saving it does not because its physical.

That is the order given to us, to believe on Jesus, and be water baptized in the name of Trinity, as its by their works that we were saved!

 

[utilyan]

Wow. You completely took what I said out of context.
I know when I got saved and accepted Christ that I received the Indwelling of the Spirit. I was a drug addict and involved in several other horrible sins...there was a huge inner change and I know for a fact I am regenerated.

What is in question so what the "Baptism of the Holy Ghost" is.

I do not have any doubts whatsoever of I have been regenerated or if I have the Holy Spirit.

What I am not 100 percent sure of is what exactly the phrase
"Baptism of the Holy Ghost" means.

Don't take what I say out of context, you don't know me or my testimony
at all. I can give you a list of people in my Church who have seen the change in my life that took place when I got saved years ago.

I'm not so worried, Jordan.
I am certain God loves you.

Its this love the Father, Son and Holy Spirit has for you has been my salvation.

I have spent my whole life being taught to love by God.

There is very concrete appreciation a true treasuring of Love. A treasuring that I know my Father loves me, Jesus loves me, and the holy spirit loves me.

If you can understand this immense gratitude this restful gratefulness in the heart of God, it transcends all the "mere" physical and spiritual mechanics concerning whether or not I am saved.

It is absolutely enough to know I am Love.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I'm not so worried, Jordan.
I am certain God loves you.

Its this love the Father, Son and Holy Spirit has for you has been my salvation.

I have spent my whole life being taught to love by God.

There is very concrete appreciation a true treasuring of Love. A treasuring that I know my Father loves me, Jesus loves me, and the holy spirit loves me.

If you can understand this immense gratitude this restful gratefulness in the heart of God, it transcends all the "mere" physical and spiritual mechanics concerning whether or not I am saved.

It is absolutely enough to know I am Love.

Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3

I hope you are not trying to imply that you have always had a relationship with God.

None can truly love God unless they are saved and born again.

 

[utilyan]

Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3

I hope you are not trying to imply that you have always had a relationship with God.

None can truly love God unless they are saved and born again.

If I didn't have it I wouldn't know it.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

If I didn't have it I wouldn't know it.

This world is full of people who think they have a relationship with God who don't.

Matthew 7:21-23 KJV
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

John 6:40 KJV
[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:28-29 KJV
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? [29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[HankD]

This is from the Douay-Rheims (Catholic) Bible :

Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you in water unto penance,
but he that shall come after me, is mightier than I,
whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire.

According to the Catholic Version of the Bible Jesus Christ baptizes us into the Spirit.
He and He alone does this baptism.


HankD