What is the difference?

[Van]

The topic of the thread is the difference between believing and receiving the gospel. Mark 4:20 demonstrates we must "receive" or "accept" or "welcome" the gospel. The Greek word means to take and make our own. Thus the doctrine or biblical teaching that we must receive the gospel is not weak, it is obvious, and to deny the doctrine is irrational, because it must be accepted because it is taught in many verses, including Mark 4:20, and Acts 22:18. It means accept it, not reject it. It means make it our own, not put it on a shelf marked "awaiting action."

2 Corinthians 11:4 says, " For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully." Here we have a different Greek word, also meaning to receive or take translated as accept. The doctrine is found in multiple places in the NT.

 

[saturneptune]

The topic of the thread is the difference between believing and receiving the gospel. Mark 4:20 demonstrates we must "receive" or "accept" or "welcome" the gospel. The Greek word means to take and make our own. Thus the doctrine or biblical teaching that we must receive the gospel is not weak, it is obvious, and to deny the doctrine is irrational, because it must be accepted because it is taught in many verses, including Mark 4:20, and Acts 22:18. It means accept it, not reject it. It means make it our own, not put it on a shelf marked "awaiting action."

2 Corinthians 11:4 says, " For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully." Here we have a different Greek word, also meaning to receive of take translated as accept. The doctrine is found in multiple places in the NT.

So how does one believing in God's sovereignty translate into preaching another Jesus?

 

[Van]

Yet another misrepresentation, believing in God's sovereignty is not at issue. Believing God does not allow people to accept or reject the gospel is the issue. God's sovereignty is code in Calvinism's doctrine, for exhaustive determinism, God predestines whatsoever comes to pass. However, the main-stream view, God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass expresses the biblical view of God's sovereignty in my opinion.

Several verses say we need to receive, accept, welcome and make our own the gospel of Christ. In 2 Corinthians 11:4 we are told not to accept a different gospel. If someone says Jesus is not the Messiah, they are presenting a different gospel. If someone says Jesus is not God the Son, they are presenting a different gospel. If someone say Jesus did not live a sinless life, born of a virgin, taught we must believe in Him, suffered and died for our sin, and arose on the third day, they are preaching another gospel. Calvinism teaches all that and therefore is not "another gospel."

Some of the most committed servants of Christ in my life have been reformed Christians. Please stop your incessant insinuations that I do not believe Calvinists are Christians. It is a transparent attack, trying to get me banned, rather than discussing what the bible teaches.

 

[agedman]

Yet another misrepresentation, believing in God's sovereignty is not at issue. Believing God does not allow people to accept or reject the gospel is the issue. God's sovereignty is code in Calvinism's doctrine, for exhaustive determinism, God predestines whatsoever comes to pass. However, the main-stream view, God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass expresses the biblical view of God's sovereignty in my opinion.

Several verses say we need to receive, accept, welcome and make our own the gospel of Christ. In 2 Corinthians 11:4 we are told not to accept a different gospel. If someone says Jesus is not the Messiah, they are presenting a different gospel. If someone says Jesus is not God the Son, they are presenting a different gospel. If someone say Jesus did not live a sinless life, born of a virgin, taught we must believe in Him, suffered and died for our sin, and arose on the third day, they are preaching another gospel. Calvinism teaches all that and therefore is not "another gospel."

Some of the most committed servants of Christ in my life have been reformed Christians. Please stop your incessant insinuations that I do not believe Calvinists are Christians. It is a transparent attack, trying to get me banned, rather than discussing what the bible teaches.

This is the Van with which I find most enjoyable to discuss Scriptures and principles!

Van and I may not agree - in fact we are in sharp contrast in some areas - and at some time we both may slip in not posting a complete thought, or shorten it so it can be skewed, but I will state that Van does at least attend to the Scriptures and does generally use gracious posting.

There is one letter change between discuss and disgust. But a remarkable difference in meaning. Remembering "dis" means the lack of; the first (discuss) lack of cussing, the second (disgust) lack of blustery wind.

I like to use my own dictionary etymology skills - not that they are always accurate though.

 

[Van]

Hello Agedman, now you know I am going to have to spend more time in prayer tonight asking for forgiveness for uncharitable thoughts, and then more thanksgiving for God sending one of His servants my direction.

But I will get through it, God willing.

Van

 

[convicted1]

Calvinism uses vague phrases to pour their man-made doctrine into scripture. Illumination or enlightenment becomes "irresistible grace."

Here we have the phrase open the heart and it is claimed this is some supernatural enablement by the Holy Spirit, either irresistible grace (if used by a Calvinist) or prevenient grace (if used by an Arminian).

Lets take a look at what scripture says:

In Proverbs 15:11 we see the idea that our hearts are open to the Lord's inspection. Thus an open heart is not closed and unable to receive divine revelation.

In Acts 16:4 we see opening the heart allows a person to respond to the Lord's revelation. So again, the idea seems to be to somehow prepare the person's heart to receive divine revelation.

In 2 Corinthians 6:11 we see that love for another opens the heart wide to whatever the other is offering. Christ high and lifted up draws all who behold.

Now in Matthew 13:1-23 we see that the first soil, hardened and uncultivated is not open to the gospel. So how are we cultivated so we are open to the gospel?

a) We must believe in God, i.e. Lydia was a worshiper of God.

b) We must understand scripture and the promises of God. Thus to explain the gospel would cultivate and open a person's heart.

c) In Luke 24:45 Jesus opens the mind of others by explaining scripture.​

Bottom line, the least that scripture could be saying, thus avoiding adding our own speculation to the phrase, is that God's revelation was put before people in a way they could understand, thus opening their hearts to God's truth.

Now we can add to that our own speculation, i.e. supernatural enablement, but none of that can be supported scripturally.

I am not a calvinist, neither reformed, in my beliefs, but I still say that God must enable us to believe His Word via the Holy Spirit. As sinners, the Holy Spirit moves upon our hearts, and draws us, and in this drawing, we are enabled to learn what the requirements of salvation are......and that's obedience to Him. We must surrender to Him, and realize that we can not save ourselves. Prior to God working with us, our hearts are hardened by sin. The Word(Seed) can not, or rather, will not, penetrate a heart that is hardened. God must first break that stony heart up, and then the Seed is planted, and God then sends workers to water that seed.

 

[Iconoclast]

I am not a calvinist, neither reformed, in my beliefs, but I still say that God must enable us to believe His Word via the Holy Spirit. As sinners, the Holy Spirit moves upon our hearts, and draws us, and in this drawing, we are enabled to learn what the requirements of salvation are......and that's obedience to Him. We must surrender to Him, and realize that we can not save ourselves. Prior to God working with us, our hearts are hardened by sin. The Word(Seed) can not, or rather, will not, penetrate a heart that is hardened. God must first break that stony heart up, and then the Seed is planted, and God then sends workers to water that seed.

:thumbs::applause::applause::thumbs:

 

[Van]

Hi Convicted1, my post addressed the Arminian view. You are free to add your view to the text, most do. But you said one other thing that I doubt is biblically supported, "God must first break up the stony heart."

Tilling the soil, cultivating the soil are things believers are told to do. So the Holy Spirit works through believers to offer the gospel to the lost. The fields are white with harvest. Just because a view is old or popular, we need to verify what scripture says.

If scripture actually teaches your view, provide and discuss the passages.

Ezekiel 11:19 and 36:26 speak of our heart of stone which is removed and replaced when we are born anew, thus after we believed and were put spiritually in Christ.