Originally posted by Frank:
Chem:
Yes, I have read James many times. James did not say that our works were justification before men. He said men are known by their deeds a manifestation of true faith.Again, God justifies , not men. Romans 8:33;5:8-10.
Grace and faith are two things. Eph. 2:8,9. Grace that saves is accesed by faith Romans 5;1,2. It is always an active faith.One must have an active faith to be saved. Gal. 3:26,27,Acts 17:30,31,Mat. 10:32. You advocate a dead faith. James 2:26,17.
By the way, James advocates an active faith, James 2:17,18,26.
Since my questions were not answered from Hebrews 11. I will answer them in the interest of truth. The walls of Jericho fell AFTER they were compassed about seven times, not before. The children of Israel were saved after they walked throught the Red Sea, not before. Rahab was spared after she received the spies, not before. Abraham was justified after he offered Isaac, not before.In each case, these inspied accounts teach us that there was something they MUST DO TO BE SAVED. The Bible says so. Again, an active faith accessed God's grace.
Frank
This life and the next life are different things otherwise Jesus would have been wrong when he said the following:
[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. - John 6:40 KJV
Even the people who believed in Christ died but the promise refered to them having eternal life with God after the resurection of the dead. Most of the people of Israel who left Egypt with Moses died in the desert, they had their lives spared but they did not have true salvation:
[17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
[18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? - Hebrews 3:17-18 KJV
Before Christ brought the New Covenant in His blood into effect, people were not sealed by the Spirit, they did not have the promises of grace that we have. Having their death delayed did not mean that they had salvation
[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
[14] Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. - Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. - Romans 10:9-13 KJV
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV
1. Saved by grace through faith not by works.
[6] And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. - Romans 11:6 KJV
2. Grace and works are very very different things.
[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
3. Good works are a result of being made into a new creature in Christ not a cause.
