What is the largest Church in America?

[ReformedBaptist]

How about the Lutheran teaching on baptism? You said it is different than the Catholic teaching. In what ways??

I will have to examine their beliefs more in-depth to see if they teach a baptismal regeneration. I tried to examine the Anglican belief but couldn't locate a precise meaning from their websites, so I took your word for it. I considered that they did not teach baptismal regeneration, but rather infant baptism like the Presbyterian churches.

But this discussion has been helpful to me and reminded me that John Gill did not go too far to reckon infant baptism as part and pillar of popery.

 

[DHK]

I guess it changes from area to area --- from church to church. A good friend of mine is the worship leader in a Methodist church in Atlanta -- definitely a Christian church. The Methodist church down the street from us also fits into that category.

Most Methodist Churches that I know of have gone liberal. But as I read back into American history, (and even some Canadian history), it was the Methodists that evangelized a good part of this land with their tent meetings and circuit riding preachers. They preached the gospel, baptized converts, and discipled them. In fact as the Lutherans were a thorn in the side of the Catholic Church so it was that the Methodists were in the Anglican Church.

 

[annsni]

I guess it changes from area to area --- from church to church. A good friend of mine is the worship leader in a Methodist church in Atlanta -- definitely a Christian church. The Methodist church down the street from us also fits into that category.

I find the Methodist churches in the south are MUCH better than those up here. I've heard of some good solid Methodist Churches down your way. Up here? They are really not any better than the Unitarians.

 

[lori4dogs]

No infant has faith. Therefore the Catholic Church believes that baptism and baptism alone saves. The infant baptism is to ensure that the infant will go to heaven. Faith at this point is totally irrelevant.

Maybe you need to include Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodists, Anglicans, Orthodox, Reformed, United Church of Christ, some Nazarene churches in this. Do they, by your own conclusion, believe that baptism and baptism alone saves? You know the answer.

 

[DHK]

Maybe you need to include Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodists, Anglicans, Orthodox, Reformed, United Church of Christ, some Nazarene churches in this. Do they, by your own conclusion, believe that baptism and baptism alone saves? You know the answer.

NO, they don't all believe the same.

If they all believed the same; they all wouldn't be different!

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

I find the Methodist churches in the south are MUCH better than those up here. I've heard of some good solid Methodist Churches down your way. Up here? They are really not any better than the Unitarians.

That's too bad. Here's some information from the local Methodist church's web site. I attended here a few times with my son, as this is the church that supports the Boy Scouts -- so we attended on Boy Scout Sundays. Also our neighbors attend this church.

"Who We Are
We are a family of Christian believers striving to make Jesus Christ first in our lives, looking for ways to serve Him and share Him with others. Striving in everything we do to make a real difference in His world. It is around Him that our vision, values, priorities, practices and goals revolve. "

 

[lori4dogs]

NO, they don't all believe the same.

If they all believed the same; they all wouldn't be different!

They all believe in baptising infants. They all believe that baptism is a SACRAMENT and they all believe that faith in Christ is required for salvation JUST LIKE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. We are talking about baptism at present, not other issues that separate these denominations.

 

[lori4dogs]

Most Methodist Churches that I know of have gone liberal. But as I read back into American history, (and even some Canadian history), it was the Methodists that evangelized a good part of this land with their tent meetings and circuit riding preachers. They preached the gospel, baptized converts, and discipled them. In fact as the Lutherans were a thorn in the side of the Catholic Church so it was that the Methodists were in the Anglican Church.

Anglicans and Lutherans baptise infants for the same reasons Catholics do.

 

[DHK]

Anglicans and Lutherans baptise infants for the same reasons Catholics do.

I have never disputed anything about the Anglicans. They might as well be Catholics as far as I am concerned. They are Catholics without a Pope. The same with the Orthodox. Not much difference there either.
And Luther? He was an ex-priest. I already posted about him. I don't agree with much of what he stood for, standing up against the RCC. But that doesn't mean I agree with all that he believes. I am not a Lutheran. I hope you know that. What is your point anyway. Is there a reason for this.

You are in agreement with the Hindus too. Do you realize that?

 

[lori4dogs]

I will have to examine their beliefs more in-depth to see if they teach a baptismal regeneration. I tried to examine the Anglican belief but couldn't locate a precise meaning from their websites, so I took your word for it. I considered that they did not teach baptismal regeneration, but rather infant baptism like the Presbyterian churches.

But this discussion has been helpful to me and reminded me that John Gill did not go too far to reckon infant baptism as part and pillar of popery.

Popery?? Good grief, who talks like that anymore?

Presbyterians practice infant baptism. And regardless of all the 'it's only to initiate them into the covenant' talk that usually starts to be posted on this board when it is mentioned of Presbyterians doing this, they in fact teach that baptism is a sacrament. What is a sacrament? If baptism is only symbolic why don't they deny it is a sacrament??

However, just like the Catholic Church, Presbyterians state that faith in Christ must accompany baptism or all you have is a baptised pagan.

"Baptism enacts and seals what the Word proclaims: God's redeeming grace offered to all people. Baptism is God's gift of grace and also God's summons to respond to that grace. Baptism calls to repentance, to faithfulness, and to discipleship. Baptism gives the church its identity and commissions the church for ministry to the world." -- --Book of Order W-2.3006.

 

[lori4dogs]

I have never disputed anything about the Anglicans. They might as well be Catholics as far as I am concerned. They are Catholics without a Pope. The same with the Orthodox. Not much difference there either.
And Luther? He was an ex-priest. I already posted about him. I don't agree with much of what he stood for, standing up against the RCC. But that doesn't mean I agree with all that he believes. I am not a Lutheran. I hope you know that. What is your point anyway. Is there a reason for this.

You are in agreement with the Hindus too. Do you realize that?

Actually, DHK, Luther never left the priesthood. He died a Catholic priest.

 

[lori4dogs]

My reason is simple. It is always the Catholic Church that is being accused of heretical teachings on this board in relationship to baptism and I am just pointing out that many other Christian churches hold to the same teaching. However, faith in Christ is always, always required for the salvation of any soul regardless of what denomination a person happens to belong.

 

[DHK]

My reason is simple. It is always the Catholic Church that is being accused of heretical teachings on this board in relationship to baptism and I am just pointing out that many other Christian churches hold to the same teaching. However, faith in Christ is always, always required for the salvation of any soul regardless of what denomination a person happens to belong.

Catholics don't believe in faith in Christ. If they did they wouldn't believe in infant baptism. Bringing up another religion is just a red herring. Do you like comparing yourself to Hindus?

 

[lori4dogs]

Catholics don't believe in faith in Christ. If they did they wouldn't believe in infant baptism. Bringing up another religion is just a red herring. Do you like comparing yourself to Hindus?

Free Presbyterians don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Lutherans don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Methodists don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Anglicans don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Continental Reformed don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Covenant Reformed Presbyterian don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Bible Presbyterian don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

United Church of Christ don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Church of Nazarene don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Are they all Hindus too! Your statement is absolutely ludicrous!!!

 

[DHK]

Free Presbyterians don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Lutherans don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Methodists don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Anglicans don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Continental Reformed don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Covenant Reformed Presbyterian don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Bible Presbyterian don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

United Church of Christ don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Church of Nazarene don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism.

Are they all Hindus too! Your statement is absolutely ludicrous!!!

Lori, you do not make sense.
I am addressing you. You are a Catholic. You are not any of the above. All of the above are red herrings, off topic. As a Catholic you believe in the heresy of baptismal regeneration. My standard of right and wrong is not the rest of the world or the rest of the world's religions. I couldn't care less what they believe.

My standard for right and wrong is the Bible. And baptismal regeneration is heresy--absolutely wrong. Atoms of hydrogen and oxygen do not wash away sin. It is a superstition to believe that. The Bible clearly says that only the blood of Jesus Christ can wash away your sins. That and that alone can wash away your sins.
Trust in the blood of Christ for forgiveness of your sins; not in water.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

DHK---so whats your opinon of Calvin, Knox, Edwards, Lloyd-Jones, John Owen, RC Sproul, Ligner Duncan?

 

[JTornado1]

Here is a link regarding infant baptism from a Lutheran website:

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=4411

They contend that infant baptism has been practiced in the very early Christian church.

 

[Dr. Walter]

DHK---so whats your opinon of Calvin, Knox, Edwards, Lloyd-Jones, John Owen, RC Sproul, Ligner Duncan?

Regardless of who it may be that embraces the false doctrine of infant baptism it is departure from the essentials of the faith once delivered. It perverts the gospel of salvation. It perverts the ordinance of baptism. It perverts the Biblical membership of a New Testament assembly. It is placing leaven of corruption within the membership of the church that will distort and pervert and destroy all Biblical essentials to be recognized as a church of Jesus Christ.

 

[lori4dogs]

DHK---so whats your opinon of Calvin, Knox, Edwards, Lloyd-Jones, John Owen, RC Sproul, Ligner Duncan?

Well, according to DHK, they "don't believe in faith in Christ, if they did they woudn't believe in infant baptism."

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I'm not sure what you are talking about. David Martyn Lloyd-Jones was was a Calvinist & in charge of the Westminster Chapel in London. He was definitely not a Wesleyan....not a Welshman, heaven forbid. Thats the Damned English.

You know why the sun never sat on the English empire don't you?

For a baptist the spirit indwells the believer in fullness upon conversion. Thank God for that.