What is the largest Church in America?

[ReformedBaptist]

Sure sounds like you are questioning my salvation again, DHK. I say I have repented of my sins and follow Jesus as Savior and Lord and you say that is impossible.

BTW, are all Presbyterians, Lutherans, etc. hell-bound as well? They believe baptism is a SACRAMENT. They believe, as we do, that it initiates a person into a covanental relationship with Christ which must be accompanied by faith. My church teaches that we are saved by grace.

Well, kids, not much new here. I think I'll continue to visit this board but continual posting here is taking up time I think could be better used by the Lord in other ways.

Lori,

You on one hand say that you follow Roman Catholic teaching, and on the other hand you have repented of your sins and follow Jesus. What I and prob others are pointed out is that is, indeed, impossible.

You cannot serve Romanism and serve Christ. Both are masters. The one who follows papal doctrines has denied the Bible's doctrines. The one who has a pope for their Head, has denied Christ Jesus as the ONLY Head of HIS Church.

The one who receives papal teaching has rejected the Bible's teaching. What these men are trying to show you is no different than trying to show a Mormon or JW that they are not following Jesus.

 

[Dr. Walter]

This is why I'm not one of the "all Catholics are going to hell" people. There is no reason a Catholic can't have faith in Christ and repentance of sin. I believe we are saved by faith alone, not faith alone plus believing in sola fide. And yes, DHK questioned your salvation again. I guess the rules don't apply when you're a moderator.

There are saved Catholics and I have met them and there are lost Baptists and I have met them. However, there are not TWO contrasting ways of salvation (Gal. 1:6-9; Mt. 7:13-14) and Lori claimed two contrasting ways of salvation which DHK simply brought to his attention. Lori never dealt with the evidence but is running from it. You are not dealing with the obvious contradiction but are running from it in a different manner.

Here are the obvious facts:

1. Baptists teach justification by grace alone through faith alone in the finished work of Christ alone apart from baptism and all other good works.

2. Catholics do not teach the Baptiist gospel or way of justification

3. Lori is claiming to be saved by the Baptist gospel AND that his Baptist gospel savlation is compatible with the Roman Catholic way of salvation.

Now, we are all adults here and there is not a Catholic on this forum that believes the Roman way of salvation is snyonomous and compatible with the Baptist way of salvation as they are diametrically opposed to each other and the contining debate over justification by works versus justification by faith without works PROVES IT.

So, Lori has placed himself in an impossible dilemma. He cannot consistently claim He was justified under a Baptist gospel WITHOUT WORKS and now claim he is being justified under a Catholic gospel BY works as the Scriptures define one of these gospels as "accursed" (Gal. 1:6-9) and denies there is "any other gospel" but the ONE preached by Paul and Paul did not preach both the Baptist and the RCC gospel.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

That heavenly SAT exam is going to be a doosey! Because we know faith plus a 4.0 gpa in doctrine gets you into heaven... So before you die make sure you cram for the test!!!

 

[DHK]

GE:
Does one's 'personal', 'reborn'-relationship with the Lord depend on 'doctrine' or run parallel with doctrine? I don't think so. I believe by far the majority of God's true children would not even KNOW about 'doctrine'. 'Doctrine' in most cases is an ugly, unchristian and un-Christ-like thing.

Doctrine is teaching. Apart from doctrine one cannot be saved. Apart from doctrine one cannot know Christ. Apart from doctrine one knows nothing of what the Bible says about any Christian topic whatsoever. He remains in complete ignorance.

 

[DHK]

Sure sounds like you are questioning my salvation again, DHK. I say I have repented of my sins and follow Jesus as Savior and Lord and you say that is impossible.

Where did I question your salvation in post #116?
I asked four doctrinal questions using an impersonal pronoun.
Then I gave my personal testimony.
How is that questioning your salvation?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Doctrine is teaching. Apart from doctrine one cannot be saved. Apart from doctrine one cannot know Christ. Apart from doctrine one knows nothing of what the Bible says about any Christian topic whatsoever. He remains in complete ignorance.

Yep study for the exam because you must answer every question correctly no matter that the entirety of God's revelation was not revealed to Abraham or Moses Just those parts that affected them. Wait Can't provide a bell curve can he?

 

[DHK]

This is why I'm not one of the "all Catholics are going to hell" people. There is no reason a Catholic can't have faith in Christ and repentance of sin. I believe we are saved by faith alone, not faith alone plus believing in sola fide. And yes, DHK questioned your salvation again. I guess the rules don't apply when you're a moderator.

You are entitled to your opinion. There are two different gospels presented here: one of works and one of grace. The one leads to hell and the other to heaven. Which one do you believe?

 

[DHK]

Yep study for the exam because you must answer every question correctly no matter that the entirety of God's revelation was not revealed to Abraham or Moses Just those parts that affected them. Wait Can't provide a bell curve can he?

You cannot know the deity of Christ apart from doctrine.
You cannot know that Jesus saves apart from doctrine.
Are you still going to agree with GE that doctrine is not important, and in fact it is "ugly."

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You cannot know the deity of Christ apart from doctrine.
You cannot know that Jesus saves apart from doctrine.
Are you still going to agree with GE that doctrine is not important, and in fact it is "ugly."

I Know the deity of Christ from Scripture Alone. "before abraham was, I am" or "I saw satan fall like lighting" . In fact, everything God has to tell me is in scripture not man made dogma. My personal relationship is built on prayer and meditation of Scripture not dogma. Now I don't believe you have to have everything spot on but there are basics. And a general understanding is enough. I wonder how much dogma the theif on the cross had?

 

[FR7 Baptist]

You are entitled to your opinion. There are two different gospels presented here: one of works and one of grace. The one leads to hell and the other to heaven. Which one do you believe?

I already answered that in my post. You can have faith in Christ without a correct understanding of everything that entails.

 

[DHK]

I Know the deity of Christ from Scripture Alone. "before abraham was, I am" or "I saw satan fall like lighting" . In fact, everything God has to tell me is in scripture not man made dogma. My personal relationship is built on prayer and meditation of Scripture not dogma. Now I don't believe you have to have everything spot on but there are basics. And a general understanding is enough. I wonder how much dogma the theif on the cross had?

But that is not what EG implied or said. If you know it from Scripture alone then you still know it from the teaching of Scripture whether you studied it yourself or received the teaching from someone else.
Theology is the study of God.
Christology is the study of Christ.
How did you come to a knowledge of the deity of Christ? Who taught it to you? Someone did. The Holy Spirit? The Bible? Yourself? A teacher?
It was taught. The word "doctrine" means "teaching."

 

[annsni]

I already answered that in my post. You can have faith in Christ without a correct understanding of everything that entails.

That would be if you have faith in the Jesus Christ of the Bible as the author and finisher of your faith. However, the Catholic church teaches that you need to have faith in Jesus Christ AND..... In other words, there is more to salvation than simply believing on the Lord Jesus Christ. You cannot be saved if you are not baptized. You cannot be saved if you are not part of the Church. You cannot be saved outside of the sacraments. It's faith plus. That's a big different story.

 

[DHK]

I already answered that in my post. You can have faith in Christ without a correct understanding of everything that entails.

Faith in what Christ? Would you say the same thing if the J.W.'s presented to you "their way of salvation, through their Christ." There is only one way of salvation, and it is not through the RCC false gospel.

 

[Dr. Walter]

I Know the deity of Christ from Scripture Alone. "before abraham was, I am" or "I saw satan fall like lighting" . In fact, everything God has to tell me is in scripture not man made dogma. My personal relationship is built on prayer and meditation of Scripture not dogma. Now I don't believe you have to have everything spot on but there are basics. And a general understanding is enough. I wonder how much dogma the theif on the cross had?

Ignorance saves no one:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. - Jn. 17:3

There is no "good news" to self-righteous people. Jesus came not to save the righteous but sinners. Man must at the very minimum see his NEED as a sinner which NEEDS salvation and understand the gospel sufficiently to believe that Christ SATISFIES that need COMPLETELY.

It is the SUFFICIENCY of Christ to have satisfied that NEED that is the real problem between Baptists and Catholics in regard to justification by faith. The Baptist gospel of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone is simply the message that Christ has provided a SUFFICIENT basis for justification before God. The RCC and other justification by works gospels DENY that Christ alone is Sufficient but that the sinner must ADD something to make justification SUFFICIENT.

So, a simple sense of being a needy sinner under condemnation and a simple faith that all your need is satisfied by Christ ALONE is the simple faith in a simple gospel.

 

[Conrad]

As I read through the posts. I noticed that there are two opposing views here.

The view that true catholics are not saved because they believe in what the catholic church teaches about salvation which is based on sacraments and penance.

The other view is that there are catholics that are saved because these catholics trust Christ alone for their salvation inspite of the catholic teaching of salvation by sacrament and penance.

As a former catholic turned to baptist I think i can relate to this. I was saved as a catholic before being a baptist. Even though I know that I'm already saved at that time, I still don't want to leave the catholic church as I believe that the catholic church is the true church. I'm also a religious person and practice all kinds of activities related to the catholic church. I say my hail mary's, pray the rosary and even go to perpetual help and devotion to different saints.

But as i read my Bible i realized that the catholic church doctrine and practices were at odds with it. I was confronted to decide either to stay in the catholic church or be true to the teachings of the Bible.

I chose the later. Thank God I did!

So in a way I can say that there are catholics that are saved but this is inspite of the catholic false teaching of salvation.

But this catholics i believe will someday realized just like me that the catholic church is not the church of the Living God but of that of the anti-christ pretending to be the bride of Christ.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Well said!

As I read through the posts. I noticed that there are two opposing views here.

The view that true catholics are not saved because they believe in what the catholic church teaches about salvation which is based on sacraments and penance.

The other view is that there are catholics that are saved because these catholics trust Christ alone for their salvation inspite of the catholic teaching of salvation by sacrament and penance.

As a former catholic turned to baptist I think i can relate to this. I was saved as a catholic before being a baptist. Even though I know that I'm already saved at that time, I still don't want to leave the catholic church as I believe that the catholic church is the true church. I'm also a religious person and practice all kinds of activities related to the catholic church. I say my hail mary's, pray the rosary and even go to perpetual help and devotion to different saints.

But as i read my Bible i realized that the catholic church doctrine and practices were at odds with it. I was confronted to decide either to stay in the catholic church or be true to the teachings of the Bible.

I chose the later. Thank God I did!

So in a way I can say that there are catholics that are saved but this is inspite of the catholic false teaching of salvation.

But this catholics i believe will someday realized just like me that the catholic church is not the church of the Living God but of that of the anti-christ pretending to be the bride of Christ.

 

[annsni]

As I read through the posts. I noticed that there are two opposing views here.

The view that true catholics are not saved because they believe in what the catholic church teaches about salvation which is based on sacraments and penance.

The other view is that there are catholics that are saved because these catholics trust Christ alone for their salvation inspite of the catholic teaching of salvation by sacrament and penance.

As a former catholic turned to baptist I think i can relate to this. I was saved as a catholic before being a baptist. Even though I know that I'm already saved at that time, I still don't want to leave the catholic church as I believe that the catholic church is the true church. I'm also a religious person and practice all kinds of activities related to the catholic church. I say my hail mary's, pray the rosary and even go to perpetual help and devotion to different saints.

But as i read my Bible i realized that the catholic church doctrine and practices were at odds with it. I was confronted to decide either to stay in the catholic church or be true to the teachings of the Bible.

I chose the later. Thank God I did!

So in a way I can say that there are catholics that are saved but this is inspite of the catholic false teaching of salvation.

But this catholics i believe will someday realized just like me that the catholic church is not the church of the Living God but of that of the anti-christ pretending to be the bride of Christ.

Thank you for your testimony! I agree with you and have found that those who are saved while attending the Catholic church do soon find that they need to leave.

 

[brucebaptist]

As I read through the posts. I noticed that there are two opposing views here.

The view that true catholics are not saved because they believe in what the catholic church teaches about salvation which is based on sacraments and penance.

The other view is that there are catholics that are saved because these catholics trust Christ alone for their salvation inspite of the catholic teaching of salvation by sacrament and penance.

As a former catholic turned to baptist I think i can relate to this. I was saved as a catholic before being a baptist. Even though I know that I'm already saved at that time, I still don't want to leave the catholic church as I believe that the catholic church is the true church. I'm also a religious person and practice all kinds of activities related to the catholic church. I say my hail mary's, pray the rosary and even go to perpetual help and devotion to different saints.

But as i read my Bible i realized that the catholic church doctrine and practices were at odds with it. I was confronted to decide either to stay in the catholic church or be true to the teachings of the Bible.

I chose the later. Thank God I did!

So in a way I can say that there are catholics that are saved but this is inspite of the catholic false teaching of salvation.

But this catholics i believe will someday realized just like me that the catholic church is not the church of the Living God but of that of the anti-christ pretending to be the bride of Christ.

good stuff right here... very true... sounds almost identical to my testimony. catholics can get saved like anyone. but if they get truly born again and receive the HS the HS will open their eyes to the truth, which is Jesus and His Word, and they will reject false doctrines... Jesus is awesome.

 

[steaver]

GE:
Does one's 'personal', 'reborn'-relationship with the Lord depend on 'doctrine' or run parallel with doctrine? I don't think so. .

I do think so....

Rom 6:17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Amen! Thank God for doctrine.

I believe by far the majority of God's true children would not even KNOW about 'doctrine'. 'Doctrine' in most cases is an ugly, unchristian and un-Christ-like thing

The Word of God speaks of doctrine in 50 verses throughout the scriptures. "Ugly", "un-Christ-like"?

You may want to reconsider this pov.

 

[steaver]

To DHK & Steaver.... OK fellas, where do you want me to go with this?

1. I was merely asking a "simple question" to find out if you have seminary education. Why are you assuming more than that? You know what happens when you assume?

Only you know in your heart why you asked the question. Well, you and God.

2. Try Mozilla Foxfire. It has spell-checker in it.

Most folks here don't have any trouble understanding misspelled words. But if it bothers you, you could copy and paste the post yourself, spell check it, and then proceed to read it.

If that is not an option you would like to take then you could just quietly ignore those post with misspelled words.