What is the Law for Us

[Iconoclast]

Geoff Thomas sermon on romans6;

1. OFFER YOURSELVES TO GOD AS THOSE UNDER GRACE, NOT LAW.

This is what Paul says (v.13). We’re not to allow any part of our bodies to be used for sin. We ought to give all of ourselves, inside out, every single member and organ of our body, not excluding a single cell, outwardly and inwardly to God. We affirm, “It’s God’s, and it is to be an instrument of righteousness.” In other words, Paul is exhorting us, “In the light of who you are, a person who is dead to sin, and alive to Christ, go on giving yourself to God. Present your whole being to God, as someone who is alive to God, dead to sin. Give your body to the Lord as a weapon of righteousness, because “sin shall not be master, because you’re not under law, you’re under grace” (v.14).

Paul knows that people will use that phrase, “you’re not under law, you’re under grace,” as an excuse for not being meticulous in honesty and truthfulness and keeping your promises and following after the way of righteousness. So he puts it the other way around. Paul is asking us, “Why is it that we’re to present the whole of ourselves to God as tools of righteousness?” He answers, “Well, the reason that we’re to do it is because we’re not under law, we’re under grace.” What in the world does he mean? He means this. The law of Moses doesn’t have the power to enable you to do present yourselves to God as tools of righteousness. It says, quite barely, “Live like this . . . do this . . . don’t do that.” But grace is omnipotence working to make you like Christ. The law tells you what you should do, but it doesn’t have the power to help you to do what you should do. Grace gives you the power to do what the law tells you to do. And because you’re not under law, and you’re not under the condemnation of the law, therefore you’re not under the opposition of the law and the conviction of the law because you’re under grace. You’ve been redeemed, you’ve been forgiven, you’ve been empowered. Do what the law tells you to do, not because you’re solely under the provision of the righteous law, but because you’re under sovereign, free, redeeming grace. So in the light of who you are, and the provision God has given you in grace, give yourself to God. Live life in the conscious gaze of the God of grace. God knows our needs; God supplies our needs. We cry to him and he answers us. He is witnessing everything that we do. We live before his face.

 

[Iconoclast]

SGO,

So what is the change in the Law that Christ made as our eternal priest?

For the priesthood being changed,
there is made of necessity
a change also of the law.
Hebrews 7:12

This is about the laws of the Levitical priesthood being done away with...not the LAW;
preceptaustin;
Hebrews priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. (NASB: Lockman)

Greek: metatithemenes (PPPFSG) gar tes ierosunes ex anagkes kai nomou metathesis ginetai. (3SPMI)

Amplified: For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is of necessity an alteration of the law [concerning the priesthood] as well. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)

KJV: For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

NLT: And when the priesthood is changed, the law must also be changed to permit it. (NLT - Tyndale House)

Young's Literal: for the priesthood being changed, of necessity also, of the law a change doth come,

Wuest: For there being a transfer of the priesthood [to another order], of necessity also of the law there is a transfer, (13 for He concerning whom these things are being spoken pertained to a different kind of a tribe from which no one gave attendance at the altar.) (Eerdmans)

FOR WHEN THE PRIESTHOOD IS CHANGED OF NECESSITY THERE TAKES PLACE A CHANGE OF LAW ALSO: metatithemenes (PPPFSG) gar tes hierosunes ex anagkes kai nomou metathesis ginetai (3SPMI): (Isaiah 66:21; Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 16:61; Acts 6:13,14)

When the priesthood is changed - transferred from the Levitical (Law) system of priesthood to that of the order of Melchizedek in Christ. God's choice of this new type of priesthood for His Son, left the Levitical line off to one side, forever discounted, passed by "the order of Aaron".

Christianity, in a sense, comes from Judaism. But Christianity is not merely enhanced Judaism; it replaces Judaism. For a Jewish convert, his faith is changed from Judaism to Christianity. The new priesthood, after the order of Melchizedek, was not added to Aaron’s, but replaced it.

Spurgeon - The law of the priesthood alters since the person of the priest, the character of the priest, and the very office of the priest had altered too.

Changed (3331) (metathesis from metatithemi = transfer from meta = implying change + tithemi = put) is literally, the act of transferring from one place to another and so the removal or taking up or away. And so it can describe a transfer from one place to another, as for example the translation of a person to heaven...

By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. (see note Hebrews 11:5).

Hebrews 12:27 uses metathesis with the idea of removal.

And this expression, "Yet once more," denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, in order that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Figuratively, metathesis means to transpose or put one thing in the place of another. It can mean a change of things instituted or established, such as a changeover from the Levitical priesthood

For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. (Hebrews 7:12)

 

[SGO]

Thank you.

But I don't understand from post #61

"The law of Moses doesn’t have the power to enable you to do present yourselves to God as tools of righteousness. "

The Law does not in that it cannot work through the flesh but what about all those Old Testament saints that lived for God to who we are given as examples? (Hebrews 11)
Some before the Law was given but many lived for God (in spite?) of the Law.

" you’re under grace,” as an excuse for not being meticulous in honesty and truthfulness and keeping your promises and following after the way of righteousness."

Yes that behavior has been happening through the ages not just in the new covenant and Paul goes right after that mind set:
What shall we say then?
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:1

I hope you are not thinking that I am saying we can sin, no problem, because we're not under the law.
I do not need a legal justification to sin.

This is good but applicable to all saints:
"God knows our needs; God supplies our needs. We cry to him and he answers us. He is witnessing everything that we do. We live before his face."
Psalms is full of crying to God.

In post #62 most of it is over my head.
But
"This is about the laws of the Levitical priesthood being done away with...not the LAW;
preceptaustin;"

Since we uphold the Law, it is good and holy. Just the Levitical priesthood is finished? I know it to be finished but is that really the only thing it is referring to? preceptaustin is a website?

This answers? "When the priesthood is changed - transferred from the Levitical (Law) system of priesthood to that of the order of Melchizedek in Christ."

I don't understand Greek so it is lost on me when you speak sentences of it.

Isaiah 66:21 refers to the priesthood of the believer
Jeremiah 31:31-34, Ezekiel 16:61 to the new covenant
Acts 6:13-14 accusing Jesus of abolishing the law

Thank you for helping me start to work it through.

 

[Iconoclast]

Thank you.

But I don't understand from post #61

"The law of Moses doesn’t have the power to enable you to do present yourselves to God as tools of righteousness. "

The Law does not in that it cannot work through the flesh but what about all those Old Testament saints that lived for God to who we are given as examples? (Hebrews 11)
Some before the Law was given but many lived for God (in spite?) of the Law.

" you’re under grace,” as an excuse for not being meticulous in honesty and truthfulness and keeping your promises and following after the way of righteousness."

Yes that behavior has been happening through the ages not just in the new covenant and Paul goes right after that mind set:
What shall we say then?
Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:1

I hope you are not thinking that I am saying we can sin, no problem, because we're not under the law.
I do not need a legal justification to sin.

This is good but applicable to all saints:
"God knows our needs; God supplies our needs. We cry to him and he answers us. He is witnessing everything that we do. We live before his face."
Psalms is full of crying to God.

In post #62 most of it is over my head.
But
"This is about the laws of the Levitical priesthood being done away with...not the LAW;
preceptaustin;"

Since we uphold the Law, it is good and holy. Just the Levitical priesthood is finished? I know it to be finished but is that really the only thing it is referring to? preceptaustin is a website?

This answers? "When the priesthood is changed - transferred from the Levitical (Law) system of priesthood to that of the order of Melchizedek in Christ."

I don't understand Greek so it is lost on me when you speak sentences of it.

Isaiah 66:21 refers to the priesthood of the believer
Jeremiah 31:31-34, Ezekiel 16:61 to the new covenant
Acts 6:13-14 accusing Jesus of abolishing the law

Thank you for helping me start to work it through.

SGO,
The study of the law is a massive study, take your time and invest in reading some good things.....
preceptaustin is an online site that I use a lot in that it gives some of the best commentators and I believe it seeks to be fair to several points of view, not just those I agree with....here are the two links I pulled from;
Hebrews 7:11-12 Commentary | Precept Austin

Romans 6:12-14 Commentary | Precept Austin

There is a ton of solid ideas put forth, you then weigh them out....

 

[Iconoclast]

The law was like a mirror...it rev eals sin, but was never intended to be a means of Salvation;
Here is from Douglas Moo on romans6;
Several bits of evidence suggest that Paul is thinking of "law" and "grace" as contrasting salvation-historical "powers." (1) The contrast between being "under the law" and "under grace" fits naturally into the "transfer of realm" language that so characterizes Rom. 5:12-8:39. (2) Paul has used "under" (sin) in 3:9 to characterize the situation of people "under the power of" sin, and the prominence of slavery imagery in Rom. 6 suggests that the preposition has the same connotation here. "Law" and "grace" are viewed as "realms" or "powers." (3) Paul's other uses of the phrase "under the law" all denote the objective situation of "subject to the rule of the Mosaic law." 195 As in John 1:17, then, "law" and "grace" contrast the old age of bondage and "tutelage" (cf. Gal. 3:25) with the new age of freedom and "sonship" (cf. Gal. 4:1-7; Rom. 8:14-17). "Under law," then, is another way of characterizing "the old realm." This explains why Paul can make release from the law a reason for the Christian's freedom from the power of sin: as he has repeatedly stated, the Mosaic law has had a definite sin-producing and sin-intensifying function: it has brought "knowledge of sin" (3:20), "wrath" (4:15), "transgression" (5:13-14), and an increase in the severity of sin (5:20). The law, as Paul puts it in 1 Cor. 15:56, is "the power of sin." This means, however, that there can be no final liberation from the power of sin without a corresponding liberation from the power and lordship of the law. To be "under law" is to be subject to the constraining and sin-strengthening regime of the old age; to be "under grace" is to be subject to the new age in which freedom from the power of sin is available.196 The contrast of "grace" and "law" here picks up their juxtaposition in the last passage where they were both mentioned together: 5:20-21. Since this text stimulates Paul's teaching in 6:1-14, it is not at all
194. Two other reasons for thinking that "under law" means more than under the condemnation of the law are: (1) "not being under condemnation" does not explain why "sin will no longer have lordship over you" (v. 14a) — being "justified" gives, in itself, no basis for freedom from the power of sin; and (2) Paul uses imb v6uov elsewhere in places where "under condemnation" can hardly be the meaning: Gal. 4:4, referring to Christ's status on earth; 1 Cor. 9:20, referring to his own decision to live like Jews in order to win them to Christ (1 Cor. 9:20); and Gal. 4:21, referring to what the Galatians were seeking to do (the phrase also occurs in Gal. 3:23; 4:5; 5:18). 195. See the references in the previous note; and cf. the discussion in Westerholm, "Letter and Spirit," pp. 242-43; D. J. Moo, "The Law of Moses or the Law of Christ," in Continuity and Discontinuity: Perspectives on the Relationship between the Old and New Testaments. Essays in Honor of S. Lewis Johnson, Jr. (ed. J. S. Feinberg; Westchester, IL: Crossway, 1988), pp. 210-17. 196. For this emphasis, see particularly Luther; Nygren; Ridderbos, Paul, p. 148; on "grace" as a power, see our comments on 5:2.
389

 

[Iconoclast]

Monergism .com has 650 free ebooks;

This commentary is one of them, here he shows that our Union with Christ makes us the beneficiaries of Jesus law keeping on our behalf
1. The believer's "dying with" (o6v-dwioevrjaxco) Christ (Rom. 6:8; Col. 2:20; 2 Tim. 2:11; cf. Rom. 6:5);
2. The believer's "being crucified with" (o\)oxaup6co) Christ (Rom. 6:6; Gal. 2:20a);
3. The believer's being "buried" with" (cruvr&lxo) Christ (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12);
4. The believer's being "raised with" (ouveyeipco) Christ in the past (Col. 2:12i; Col. 3:i;Eph. 2:6);
5. The believer's "coming to life with" (o~Dv£coo7iouta>) Christ (Col. 2:13; Eph. 2:5);
6. The believer's being "seated with" (o"uyxo:8(£co) Christ in "the heavenlies" (Eph. 2:6);
7. The believer's being "with" Christ (various verbs) in this life (Rom. 8:17a, 17b, 29; Phil. 3:10; Col. 3:3; 2 Cor. 13:4b2);
8. The believer's eventual deliverance "with" Christ (various verbs) (Rom. 6:5b, 8b; 8:17b, 32b; 2 Cor. 4:14; Phil. 3:21; Col. 3:4; 1 Thess. 4:14b; 5:10b; 2 Tim. 2:lib3);
9. The believer's being "with" Christ after death/parousia (1 Thess. 4:17; Phil. 1:23). We

 

[kyredneck]

What's the difference between being under the 10 commandments under Christ and being under the 10 commandments under Moses?

@Iconoclast:
"One obvious difference is the fourth commandment of one day in seven rest is observed on the Lords day....as we look to the new Exodus in Jesus not the old exodus under Moses...1 cor10"

Surely you're not saying an 'obvious difference' is that the day of rest is observed on Sunday and not Saturday now. Never mind Hebrews 4:9?

So, are you saying we're actually under MORE than the ten commandments?

@Iconoclast:
"More than the ten in a sense that Jesus during the sermon on the mount expanded our understanding and privilege of keeping his commandments as nt saints.In the gospel he expounded the Covenant of redemption and has had the Apostles fully reveal His eternal purpose in Eph3:9-11"

'More than ten' because Jesus expanded it all...egad Icon, was Jesus just pulling our leg when He said "My yoke is easy and My burden is light"?

The Sermon On The Mount is an exposition of the law given by the Author of the law, addressed to the recipients of the law, showing the spirituality of the law and it's summation was precisely the demands of the law:

48 Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Mt 5

Versus:

45 For I am Jehovah that brought you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. Lev 11

How, on this earth, can any mortal be as perfect as God?

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Heb 10

Now, THAT"S good news!

 

[kyredneck]

We are not under law-keeping as means of being justified

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2

 

[utilyan]

Thank you for helping me start to work it through.

Turns out, I heard some RUMORS, that there is this some guy pretty good at all this law stuff.

Now don't laugh, I heard he practically wrote the book on the whole law thing.

Word is he pretty chummy with this God fellah and might be God, Apparently confirmed to be the nicest person in at least 15 US. states.

Some folks think he is believed to accidentally help a person here and there. I heard he has like a telepathic cell phone that only charges 5 holy points if you call on his name, and if you don't have holy points you can call collect on his account, because apparently he bought the holy phone company.

His name is Jesus, Some folks have the nerve to say he is a nicer person than I am.

He will supposedly help you.....for free, May sound ridiculous but he helps you, I heard he even does part time teaching and tutoring.

 

[Iconoclast]

"kyredneck,



@Iconoclast:
"More than the ten in a sense that Jesus during the sermon on the mount expanded our understanding and privilege of keeping his commandments as nt saints.In the gospel he expounded the Covenant of redemption and has had the Apostles fully reveal His eternal purpose in Eph3:9-11"

'More than ten' because Jesus expanded it all...egad Icon, was Jesus just pulling our leg when He said "My yoke is easy and My burden is light"?[/QUOTE]

Hello Kyred,

I am not sure how you are viewing law, as a believer.
Jesus said this;jn15
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

This does not appear to be a "heavy Burden". When you serve and worship God does it seem heavy and wearisome?
Why would God put His laws in our heart if they were a "heavy Burden"?

If we attempt to obey them in the flesh , they could be a heavy burden. We are not to live on our own righteousness but His.

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2

Exactly...but notice what they are doing! they are described as "doers of the LAW.

The Sermon On The Mount is an exposition of the law given by the Author of the law, addressed to the recipients of the law, showing the spirituality of the law and it's summation was precisely the demands of the law:

48 Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Mt 5

Versus:

45 For I am Jehovah that brought you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy. Lev 11

How, on this earth, can any mortal be as perfect as God?

BY BEING FOUND IN SAVING UNION WITH CHRIST who WAS and is SINLESSLY PERFECT AND KEPT THE WHOLE LAW.

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Heb 10

Now, THAT"S good news!

Yes that is the saving Union we are speaking of.

 

[SGO]

Turns out, I heard some RUMORS, that there is this some guy pretty good at all this law stuff.

Now don't laugh, I heard he practically wrote the book on the whole law thing.

Word is he pretty chummy with this God fellah and might be God, Apparently confirmed to be the nicest person in at least 15 US. states.

Some folks think he is believed to accidentally help a person here and there. I heard he has like a telepathic cell phone that only charges 5 holy points if you call on his name, and if you don't have holy points you can call collect on his account, because apparently he bought the holy phone company.

His name is Jesus, Some folks have the nerve to say he is a nicer person than I am.

He will supposedly help you.....for free, May sound ridiculous but he helps you, I heard he even does part time teaching and tutoring.

Line is busy.

You were on it.

 

[kyredneck]

What is the Law for Us

In a nutshell, this:

.... the righteous judgment of God; who will render to every man according to his works: Romans 2:5-6

 

[Santiaguito]

***I have edited this post as it is [1] very difficult to read without paragraphs and [2] contains too much error.

• Martin Luther was not a servant of the devil.
• Jesus Christ is not the Holy Spirit.
• "Jehovah" and "Yahweh" are not name the devil uses for "his" church - the Catholic Church and protestant denominations.
• Matthew 28:19 was NOT was written by Eusebius of Caesarea a catholic priest by the order of Emperor Constantine, so the romans could accept the doctrine of the trinity,

 

[SGO]

Oye Sanitaguito.
Ese no tiene nada que pertenece de la pregunta
"que es la Ley para nosotros".
Y todavia sus lineas tienen muchos errores (como mi Espanol).
Uno es no pone versos biblicos para cada linea.
?No lea todas de 72 declaraciones de los otros miembros?