Actually, we get it from the scriptures, Virgin Birth!
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What is the OFFICIAL Sda Views On Gospel And Ellen White?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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Steaver, it seems you are still unwilling to articulate the context of your initial question and now compose an answer supposedly mine from my statement to Yeshua. Unfortunately all you've done is stuff straw into an effigy of your own creation.
If you were a serious student of Scripture you would have recognized the verses I was referring to in my answer to Yeshua which was completely biblical. Here they are for your consideration and learning:
Matthew 5:18-19 (NKJV) For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:21-23 (NKJV) "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Hebrews 10:26-31 (NKJV) For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The Lord will judge His people."
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
And for good measure let me add what Paul wrote:
Romans 6:15-16 (NKJV) What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
You seem to be of the opinion the God's grace gives you license to merrily continue sinning with impunity. But I can only say it seems since you refuse to clarify your view in the context I requested. So here it is again; do you believe God's grace allows you to sing with impunity?
Sent from my 9024W using Tapatalk
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The fact that I added a few lines to it - does not mean I authored the entire page.
Details matter.
One Baptism
Active Member
What does the virgin birth [of Jesus] have to do with Him having sinless flesh nature?
God said:
Hebrews 10:5 KJB - Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Galatians 4:4 KJB - But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Romans 1:3 KJB - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Notice the words "seed" and "woman":Galatians 4:4 KJB - But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Romans 1:3 KJB - Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Genesis 3:15 KJB - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Genesis 3:15 KJB is promised after the fall of Adam [mankind], and thus sinful fallen flesh nature. The "seed" was to be "made" of a "woman", "under the law" of heredity or kinds; for flesh begets flesh, and there is one flesh of men on earth.
Genesis 3:15 KJB proves the virgin birth [for it says nothing about the man, but rather of the woman].
Virgin birth doesn't give Jesus sinless flesh nature, why would it? Mary was still a sinner, and herself with fallen sinful flesh, as her parents before her, and their parents before them, etc, unto Noah, and back unto Adam, of whom are all men, and all flesh of man, including Jesus'.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Creative writing -- not your strong suit
And not a quote even of your own wikipedia site.
False.
SDAs - teach a literal hell in a literal lake of fire where literal wicked are "destroyed both body and soul in fiery hell" Matthew 10:28 in literal torment. And that this punishment is final.. and eternal ... no one survives it.
Try again. Less creative writing this time.
False. Again in that it ignores all the other denominations that affirm the TEN Commandments as included in the moral law of God.
The "Baptist Confession of Faith" also admits that the TEN Commandments are still the moral law of God written on the heart as does every major Christian denomination. And they include the 4th commandment.. not merely nine.
Try again. Less creative writing this time.
False. Millerites and other early Adventists were the first major movement in the U.S. proclaiming the literal 2nd coming as a pre-millennial event. Now almost everyone knows that is true.
Try again. Less creative writing this time.
Even your own wiki site does not call the SDA doctrine -- false doctrine.
False.
There is no such thing as "social remnant" in SDA doctrine.
A great example of something I certainly did not put on your wiki site.
Obviously.
Check out the published 28 Fundamental Beliefs instead of that "wiki"
Pretty funny because you failed to qoute anything from it about "SDAs have false doctrine on return of Christ" and "SDAs teach that Jesus is not God".
Aren't you just a tiny bit embarrassed?
1. Wrong again. the SDA church did not even exist at the time that William Millere was alive and predicting end of world dates. Your own quote of your own wiki site proved it. Do you not read your own posts???!!!
1. The Bible tells us about the 144,000
2. We would not know who is a part of it until we see who is left at the 2nd coming since all the Bible says is that this is the remaining group of saints left alive at the time of the second coming.
Not even remotely like JWs
Until you actually read them.
Step 1 .. read. IT appears you don't even read your own posts - let alone mine.
I already said that SDAs already believe that and it is very obvious given we say that in the published statement of 28 fundamental beliefs - online. What part of "read" are you not getting?
Obviously He is - see the 28 Fundamental Beliefs.
Are you not aware of the doctrine of the Trinity? you seem to be in the dark on that point.
Jesus is the incarnation of God the Son - who by definition of being God was never created.
This standard doctrine and is why we refer to ourselves as Trinitarian.
I already gave you the post with the review of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination by Eternity Magazine's Walter Martin - where he proved that the SDA denomination is orthodox Christian in mainline doctrine.
I take it you simply don't read the posts.
It appears that I have to answer the same ones several times so you can build up the number of posts you are not reading first.
That seem "odd" to me.[/quote]
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I am pretty good at that - as it turns out.
Can you read?
Do you have the interest in reading the answers posted on this thread?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
fine .. how about the Bible? You seem to be trying to avoid Matthew 18, Romans 11, 1 Cor 6 and any other text that does not fit your preferences on these threads.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
True - but your efforts to twist that into opposition against NT scripture... very very flawed.
Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”
Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified
Not even remotely - you yourself admit to twisting the texts so horrifically that you get something Paul writes to contradict what you read in the teaching of Christ!!
Were we simply "not supposed to notice"????
It does not do so in a way that contradicts the teaching of Christ in Matthew 18 or of Paul in Romans 11.
How many times must you be reminded that your efforts to "insert" your extreme inference into Ephesians 2 so as to get it to contradict the Gospel teaching of Christ - is pure nonsense??
True but I don't do that.
What we have in that case is another one your fallacies where you try to "insert doctrine for others to believe" in some of the worst straw-man creative-writing flights-of-fancy I have seen.
So I suggest you stop doing it.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Did someone add "Sabbath keeping" to "Do not take God name in vain" and then a bunch of other commands to get the "TEN commandments" that are affirmed by the "Baptist Confession of Faith" as the MORAL LAW of God written on the heart under the New Covenant.
Is this your complaint???
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Your "creative writing" is a rather unconvincing form of "self talk" where as we see above - you quote absolutely nothing to back up the fiction that you post.
I am starting to believe you have imagined a group that lacks the critical thinking skills "to notice".
Why keep doing that? You already know I don't fall for that stuff.
One Baptism
Active Member
What? Can you explain to me how you came to this response from what I stated in answer to the question you asked of me?
One Baptism
Active Member
If you are referring to this text:
Galatians 3:3 KJB - Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
This is speaking in continuation of Galatians 2, and notice the context of Galatians 3:2, the "works" of the law, about the physical circumcision that was being foisted upon the believing Gentiles by certain believing Jews:
Galatians 2:3 KJB - But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
Galatians 2:4 KJB - And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Galatians 2:5 KJB - To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Galatians 2:4 KJB - And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Galatians 2:5 KJB - To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
This point was settled in Acts 15 and before, see also Acts 10-11, etc. Thus the following line:
Galatians 3:28 KJB - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Christ Jesus, by the New [Everlasting] Covenant, sending the Holy Spirit, who writes the Law of God upon our hearts, cutting away the carnal mind as a burning fire, places them upon the fleshy tables of the heart [two hemispheres of the brain]:
John 14:10 KJB - Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Hebrews 6:1 KJB - Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
The Law of God, perfect [Psalms 19:7, 119:45; James 1:25 KJB], brings nothing to perfection [Hebrews 7:19 KJB], netiher justification. God does this:
Jude 1:24 KJB - Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jude 1:25 KJB - To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Jude 1:25 KJB - To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Notice:
2 Corinthians 13:7 KJB - Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.
2 Corinthians 13:8 KJB - For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
2 Corinthians 13:9 KJB - For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.
1 John 4:17 KJB - Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
2 Corinthians 13:8 KJB - For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.
2 Corinthians 13:9 KJB - For we are glad, when we are weak, and ye are strong: and this also we wish, even your perfection.
1 John 4:17 KJB - Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Seventh-day Adventist Church - Wikipedia
you do not know
That is why you do not answer.
do you believe this?
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.
Was Jesus God's Son before being human?
you do not know
That is why you do not answer.
do you believe this?
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three coeternal Persons.
Was Jesus God's Son before being human?
Seventh-Day Adventists
Seventh-day Adventists and Jehovahs Witnesses both originate from the Advent Movement of the 1800s that was based on the time prophecies of Miller. The teachings originate from many of the same sources and so align closely in most areas.
www.adventist.org/beliefs/church_manual/index.html (November 10th 2006) states the following about Seventh-day Adventist history;
In fulfillment of the divine plan, the Advent Movement began its prophetic journey toward the kingdom in the year 1844. Few in number, often with unhappy memories of having been cast out of their churches because they had accepted the Advent doctrine, the Movement's pioneers walked uncertainly at first. They were sure of the doctrines they held, but unsure as to the form of organization, if any, that they should adopt. Indeed, most of them so sharply remembered how strong, well-organized church bodies had used that strength to oppose the Advent truth, that they instinctively feared any centralized order and government. Nevertheless, certain pioneer leaders saw with increasing clarity that some kind of government was imperative if good order was to prevail and the Movement grow strong. Their conviction was greatly strengthened by messages coming from the pen of Ellen G. White. The result was that in 1860 a church name, Seventh-day Adventist, was chosen and a legal body created to hold church property.
The majority of primary teachings are the same as held to by the Watchtower, the key difference being Seventh Day Adventists generally adhere to the Sabbath and Trinity, whereas Jehovah's Witnesses do not. Seventh-day Adventists are renowned for their high moral standards and positive impact on society, such are through operating schools, hospitals and charities. The refuse to go to war, but will do non-combatant service, as did members of the Watchtower Society during World War One.
Seventh-day Adventists and Jehovahs Witnesses both originate from the Advent Movement of the 1800s that was based on the time prophecies of Miller. The teachings originate from many of the same sources and so align closely in most areas.
www.adventist.org/beliefs/church_manual/index.html (November 10th 2006) states the following about Seventh-day Adventist history;
In fulfillment of the divine plan, the Advent Movement began its prophetic journey toward the kingdom in the year 1844. Few in number, often with unhappy memories of having been cast out of their churches because they had accepted the Advent doctrine, the Movement's pioneers walked uncertainly at first. They were sure of the doctrines they held, but unsure as to the form of organization, if any, that they should adopt. Indeed, most of them so sharply remembered how strong, well-organized church bodies had used that strength to oppose the Advent truth, that they instinctively feared any centralized order and government. Nevertheless, certain pioneer leaders saw with increasing clarity that some kind of government was imperative if good order was to prevail and the Movement grow strong. Their conviction was greatly strengthened by messages coming from the pen of Ellen G. White. The result was that in 1860 a church name, Seventh-day Adventist, was chosen and a legal body created to hold church property.
The majority of primary teachings are the same as held to by the Watchtower, the key difference being Seventh Day Adventists generally adhere to the Sabbath and Trinity, whereas Jehovah's Witnesses do not. Seventh-day Adventists are renowned for their high moral standards and positive impact on society, such are through operating schools, hospitals and charities. The refuse to go to war, but will do non-combatant service, as did members of the Watchtower Society during World War One.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
That is a "sweeping summary" that skips key details ... for example
1. No Ellen White in 1844
2. No Seventh-day Adventists in 1844
3. No Jehovah's Witnesses in 1844
4. The word "Advent" is being used there almost as if it means "Seventh-day Adventists" - but it does not. It means Millerites (following the teaching of a Baptist minister - William Miller who never became Seventy-day Adventist at all)
Your link is broken gets no page at all.
But the basic URL includes this which has a beliefs page
Beliefs :: Seventh-day Adventist world church
Read it - if you want to know what the SDA church teaches.
===================================================== this link works
(does not even mention Jehovah's Witnesses... the "english major" that you found must have read something in the Bible or history by the time this version was published)
http://www.adventist.org.my/church_manual.htm
Introduction
Historical Development of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
In fulfillment of the divine plan, the Advent Movement began its prophetic journey toward the kingdom in the year 1844. Few in number, often with unhappy memories of having been cast out of their churches because they had accepted the Advent doctrine, the Movement's pioneers walked uncertainly at first. They were sure of the doctrines they held, but unsure as to the form of organization, if any, that they should adopt. Indeed, most of them so sharply remembered how strong, well-organized church bodies had used that strength to oppose the Advent truth, that they instinctively feared any centralized order and government. Nevertheless, certain pioneer leaders saw with increasing clarity that some kind of government was imperative if good order was to prevail and the Movement grow strong. Their conviction was greatly strengthened by messages coming from the pen of Ellen G. White.
The result was that in 1860 a church name, Seventh-day Adventist, was chosen and a legal body created to hold church property. This was followed, in 1861, by the organization of our first conference, Michigan. This involved the organizing of local churches, with the members signing a church covenant, and the organizing of the various churches into one united body to constitute what is now called a local conference. Action was also taken to give identifying papers to the ministers, thus protecting the churches against impostors who might seek to prey upon them.
In 1863 the General Conference was organized, thus gathering into one organization a number of local conferences which had been created by that time. This set the Advent Movement on a coordinated, organized course.
Historical Development
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Nonsense. you have had the answer almost half a dozen times - start reading the posts.
How many times was I supposed to say that God the Son was incarnate as Jesus and God the Son had no beginning.
Do you not understand the Trinity at all??
God the Father - had no beginning - is from eternity past
God the Son - had not beginning - is from eternity past
God the Holy Spirit - had no beginning - is from eternity past.
What part of this are you having a hard time with??
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
This is what we "actually" find at the link
Church Manual :: Seventh-day Adventist world church
Introduction
Historical Development of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
In fulfillment of the divine plan, the Advent Movement began its prophetic journey toward the kingdom in the year 1844. Few in number, often with unhappy memories of having been cast out of their churches because they had accepted the Advent doctrine, the Movement's pioneers walked uncertainly at first. They were sure of the doctrines they held, but unsure as to the form of organization, if any, that they should adopt. Indeed, most of them so sharply remembered how strong, well-organized church bodies had used that strength to oppose the Advent truth, that they instinctively feared any centralized order and government. Nevertheless, certain pioneer leaders saw with increasing clarity that some kind of government was imperative if good order was to prevail and the Movement grow strong. Their conviction was greatly strengthened by messages coming from the pen of Ellen G. White.
The result was that in 1860 a church name, Seventh-day Adventist, was chosen and a legal body created to hold church property. This was followed, in 1861, by the organization of our first conference, Michigan. This involved the organizing of local churches, with the members signing a church covenant, and the organizing of the various churches into one united body to constitute what is now called a local conference. Action was also taken to give identifying papers to the ministers, thus protecting the churches against impostors who might seek to prey upon them.
In 1863 the General Conference was organized, thus gathering into one organization a number of local conferences which had been created by that time. This set the Advent Movement on a coordinated, organized course.
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You do not understand the question, that is why the difficulty of the answer.
The JW site claims SDA common origin.
SDA claims the common origin, yet reorganized in 1863
Claiming Jesus return in 1844 is SDA history.
Was Jesus the Son of God before He became Human?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
There are a lot of things that JWs claim that I tend to question. Interesting that you "now" admit that you got your info from a JW website - even though in your post you only tried to link to an SDA one.
How 'instructive' for the reader.
But I do agree that they split off from Millerites and went way the wrong way.
False.
The SDA denomination organized for the first time in 1863.
false -
Many of the SDAs in 1863 were never Millerites at all and the group in 1844 were not Seventh-day Adventists.
What SDAs hold in common with Miller is that the 2300 year calculation that ends in 1844 is held to be correct but SDAs do not claim that timeline points to the second coming.
Historically - no one who called themselves a Seventh-day Adventist - ever claimed that Christ was coming in 1844 -- because the SDA denomination did not organize as such until 1863 and the doctrines of those Millerites who were predicting the second coming are much more Baptist than they are Seventh-day Adventist on almost every distinctive doctrine that we have - except for the 2300 year timeline "end point".
Sadly you continue to reject the Trinity - why?
How many dozens of times do you need this same answer?
How many times was I supposed to say that God the Son was incarnate as Jesus and God the Son had no beginning.
Do you not understand the Trinity at all??
Here is your clue 'again'
God the Father - had no beginning - is from eternity past
God the Son - had not beginning - is from eternity past
God the Holy Spirit - had no beginning - is from eternity past.
What part of this are you having a hard time with??
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