What is the OFFICIAL Sda Views On Gospel And Ellen White?

[loDebar]

There are a lot of things that JWs claim that I tend to question. Interesting that you "now" admit that you got your info from a JW website - even though in your post you only tried to link to an SDA one.

How 'instructive' for the reader.

But I do agree that they split off from Millerites and went way the wrong way.



False.

The SDA denomination organized for the first time in 1863.



false -

Many of the SDAs in 1863 were never Millerites at all and the group in 1844 were not Seventh-day Adventists.

What SDAs hold in common with Miller is that the 2300 year calculation that ends in 1844 is held to be correct but SDAs do not claim that timeline points to the second coming.

Historically - no one who called themselves a Seventh-day Adventist - ever claimed that Christ was coming in 1844 -- because the SDA denomination did not organize as such until 1863 and the doctrines of those Millerites who were predicting the second coming are much more Baptist than they are Seventh-day Adventist on almost every distinctive doctrine that we have - except for the 2300 year timeline "end point".



Sadly you continue to reject the Trinity - why?

How many dozens of times do you need this same answer?

How many times was I supposed to say that God the Son was incarnate as Jesus and God the Son had no beginning.

Do you not understand the Trinity at all??

Here is your clue 'again'

God the Father - had no beginning - is from eternity past
God the Son - had not beginning - is from eternity past
God the Holy Spirit - had no beginning - is from eternity past.

What part of this are you having a hard time with??

'cause you do not answer,

Was Jesus the Son of God before He became the son of man?

 

[steaver]

Steaver, it seems you are still unwilling to articulate the context of your initial question and now compose an answer supposedly mine from my statement to Yeshua. Unfortunately all you've done is stuff straw into an effigy of your own creation.

I gave you the freedom to answer the question in ANY context you like. Yet it still scares you to give an answer.

If you were a serious student of Scripture you would have recognized the verses I was referring to in my answer to Yeshua which was completely biblical. Here they are for your consideration and learning:

Posting scripture having nothing to do with the issue does not vindicate your position.

You seem to be of the opinion the God's grace gives you license to merrily continue sinning with impunity. But I can only say it seems since you refuse to clarify your view in the context I requested. So here it is again; do you believe God's grace allows you to sin with impunity?

Do you mean "without" impunity?

 

[BobRyan]

'cause you do not answer,

Was Jesus the Son of God before He became the son of man?

On the contrary I answer it over half a dozen times. And then you seem to "blank out" as if nothing was posted .. for reasons I find innexplicable.


Sadly you continue to reject the Trinity - why?

How many dozens of times do you need this same answer?

How many times was I supposed to say that God the Son was incarnate as Jesus and God the Son had no beginning.

Do you not understand the Trinity at all??

Here is your clue 'again'

God the Father - had no beginning - is from eternity past
God the Son - had not beginning - is from eternity past
God the Holy Spirit - had no beginning - is from eternity past.

What part of this are you having a hard time with??

Ok now you have bold.. and underline.. to help you with your moments where everything apparently "goes blank"

 

[steaver]

What? Can you explain to me how you came to this response from what I stated in answer to the question you asked of me?

You said, "God knows who is in obedience to His perfect will,"

I asked, "Are you?"

You said, "... I am not omniscient, not even in regards my own heart, for God knows it perfectly, and I imperfectly. His judgment of me is true, for His word is truth. God is judge, He is righteous and there is no iniquity in Him. ..."

You come on here preaching obedience to God's perfect will needed for salvation and you don't even know what that perfect will is and if you are even doing God's perfect will in your own life. How is that instructive?

 

[bluejx]

Jesus fulfilled the demands of the Law in full, so we are no longer under the Sabbath, as he is the Lord of the Sabbath, and now we worship on Sunday!

By you logic we are also not under "thou shalt not commit adultery" or "thou shalt have no other gods before me". Jesus fulfilling doesn't translate into Jesus annulling.

"No one jot or one tittle". Remember?

You keeping Sunday is based on post apostolic tradition which violates Christ's teachings.

 

[loDebar]

Was Jesus the Son of God before He became the son of man?

what was you answer?

 

[steaver]

steaver said: ↑
you cannot then read another letter of Scripture and say that it means you are saved OF yourselves by keeping a law

True but I don't do that.

What we have in that case is another one your fallacies where you try to "insert doctrine for others to believe" in some of the worst straw-man creative-writing flights-of-fancy I have seen.

Simple test to see if.... "you don't do that".

Question: Do YOU believe YOU will be damned to hell if YOU do not keep the Law?

 

[BobRyan]

'cause you do not answer,

Was Jesus the Son of God before He became the son of man?

On the contrary I answer it over half a dozen times. And then you seem to "blank out" as if nothing was posted .. for reasons I find innexplicable.


Sadly you continue to reject the Trinity - why?

How many dozens of times do you need this same answer?

How many times was I supposed to say that God the Son was incarnate as Jesus and God the Son had no beginning.

Do you not understand the Trinity at all??

Here is your clue 'again'

God the Father - had no beginning - is from eternity past
God the Son - had not beginning - is from eternity past
God the Holy Spirit - had no beginning - is from eternity past.

What part of this are you having a hard time with??

Ok now you have bold.. and underline.. to help you with your moments where everything apparently "goes blank"

Was Jesus the Son of God before He became the son of man?

what was you answer?

You need to either explain your problem with the english language or else explain what part of the answer above you find most difficult to understand. Otherwise it appears you are merely claiming to 'blank out' when the answer is posted - these many times.

As we both know - pretending to "blank out" is not the most compelling response one could have.

 

[BobRyan]

steaver said: ↑
Either you are saved by grace through faith, NOT of yourself, or you are saved of yourself

True - but your efforts to twist that into opposition against NT scripture... very very flawed.

[/quote]

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

steaver said: ↑
No twisting, it is called proper hermeneutics.

Not even remotely - you yourself admit to twisting the texts so horrifically that you get something Paul writes to contradict what you read in the teaching of Christ!!

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"????

steaver said: ↑
When Scripture emphatically states "ye are saved by grace through faith and this NOT of yourselves",

It does not do so in a way that contradicts the teaching of Christ in Matthew 18 or of Paul in Romans 11.

How many times must you be reminded that your efforts to "insert" your extreme inference into Ephesians 2 so as to get it to contradict the Gospel teaching of Christ - is pure nonsense??

steaver said: ↑
you cannot then read another letter of Scripture and say that it means you are saved OF yourselves by keeping a law

True but I don't do that.

What we have in that case is another one your fallacies where you try to "insert doctrine for others to believe" in some of the worst straw-man creative-writing flights-of-fancy I have seen.

steaver said: ↑
That isn't even "twisting", that is flat out causing Scripture/God to contradict Himself. .

So I suggest you stop doing it.

steaver said: ↑
you cannot then read another letter of Scripture and say that it means you are saved OF yourselves by keeping a law

Simple test to see if.... "you don't do that".

Question: Do YOU believe YOU will be damned to hell if YOU do not keep the Law?

1. I accept the Bible teaching that "sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4.. do you?
2. I accept the teaching of Christ in Matthew 18... do you?
3. I accept that after a person is saved they do not lose salvation each time they sin -- rather they repent and ask for forgiveness.
4. I accept the Matthew 18 teaching of Christ.. .do you?
5. I accept that not taking God's name in vain is one of God's commandments and that saints do not ignore such sin... do you?

 

[steaver]

1. I accept the Bible teaching that "sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4.. do you? Yes
2. I accept the teaching of Christ in Matthew 18... do you? Yes
3. I accept that after a person is saved they do not lose salvation each time they sin -- rather they repent and ask for forgiveness. Yes
4. I accept the Matthew 18 teaching of Christ.. .do you? Yes
5. I accept that not taking God's name in vain is one of God's commandments and that saints do not ignore such sin... do you? Yes

Now back to my question....

Simple test to see if.... "you don't do that".

Question: Do YOU believe YOU will be damned to hell if YOU do not keep the Law?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 2:30 PM Pacific

 

[BobRyan]

Now back to my question....

Simple test to see if.... "you don't do that".

Question: Do YOU believe YOU will be damned to hell if YOU do not keep the Law?

Now back to my answer

BobRyan said: ↑
1. I accept the Bible teaching that "sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4..
2. I accept the teaching of Christ in Matthew 18...
3. I accept that after a person is saved they do not lose salvation each time they sin -- rather they repent and ask for forgiveness.
4. I accept the Matthew 18 teaching of Christ.. .do you?
5. I accept that not taking God's name in vain is one of God's commandments and that saints do not ignore such sin... do you?

 

[steaver]

3. I accept that after a person is saved they do not lose salvation each time they sin -- rather they repent and ask for forgiveness.

I guess you want me to alter my question a bit to fit your answer. Ok....

Do YOU believe YOU will be damned to hell if YOU do not keep the Law and do not repent and ask for forgiveness each time?

 

[BobRyan]

I guess you want me to alter my question a bit to fit your answer. Ok....

Do YOU believe YOU will be damned to hell if YOU do not keep the Law and do not repent and ask for forgiveness each time?

I believe that in Matthew 18 Christ teaches correct doctrine - when He teaches forgiveness revoked in response to determined rebellion against God.
Period.

You have already admitted that you think Christ's doctrine would be error today.
Clearly - we differ.

It does not get any easier than that.
I am sticking with the teaching of Christ - and actual scripture on that point.

Apparently Paul agrees with Christ -

==============================

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Romans 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

1 Cor 6
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

=================

p.s. I would thank you for constantly bringing this point out -- I rather enjoy it.

 

[steaver]

I believe that in Matthew 18 Christ teaches correct doctrine - when He teaches forgiveness revoked in response to determined rebellion against God.
Period.

And that then means salvation is of YOURSELF. Period.

You have already admitted that you think Christ's doctrine would be error today.
Clearly - we differ.

Would like to see that quote from me somewhere.....

 

[One Baptism]

Was Jesus the Son of God before He became the son of man?

what was you answer?

The Son of God [the Father] is from eternity the Son. The eternal "fellow" of the Father:

Zechariah 13:7 KJB - Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.​

Jesus is JEHOVAH Emmanuel, the person of the Son:

Genesis 1:1 KJB - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

All through Genesis 1, we see the Father speaking to the Son, and the Son creating, and the Holy Spirit in action also. God in Genesis 1:1 is Elohiym, a true plural word. 3 persons.​

Genesis 17:1 KJB - And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Genesis 17:22 KJB - And he left off talking with him, and God went up from Abraham.

Genesis 18:1 KJB - And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

Genesis 18:13 KJB - And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?

Genesis 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Exodus 3:14 KJB - And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Psalms 46:7 KJB - The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

Psalms 46:11 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

Isaiah 8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.

Isaiah 8:10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.

Isaiah 48:16 KJB - Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

Matthew 1:21 KJB - And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Proverbs 8:22 KJB - The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Proverbs 8:23 KJB - I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

Proverbs 8:24 KJB - When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

Proverbs 8:25 KJB - Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

Proverbs 8:26 KJB - While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

Proverbs 8:27 KJB - When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Proverbs 8:28 KJB - When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

Proverbs 8:29 KJB - When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

Proverbs 8:30 KJB - Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

Micah 5:2 KJB - But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

John 1:1 KJB - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:2 KJB - The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:3 KJB - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 4:26 KJB - Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Realize to whom He first said this too, "I ... am"​

John 5:39 KJB - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

John 8:58 KJB - Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30 KJB - I and my Father are one.

Not one in person, but in at-one-ment of purpose, etc.​

John 14:6 KJB - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Colossians 2:9 KJB - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16 KJB - And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:8 KJB - But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 1:9 KJB - Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Hebrews 1:10 KJB - And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

Hebrews 1:11 KJB - They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

Hebrews 1:12 KJB - And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

Hebrews 13:5 KJB - Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Hebrews 13:6 KJB - So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Hebrews 13:7 KJB - Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Hebrews 13:8 KJB - Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
​

To see a much greater listing, download the following:

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See section "Michael the archangel [X4] - Appendix 4 – The Son of the Father, Jesus, who is JEHOVAH Emmanuel, the Eternal and great I AM, God manifest in the flesh"

I pray that this answer from scripture [KJB] is clear to you, and about where I stand.

 

[loDebar]

I know the answer , I was asking him. You did not get the question as well.

Do you believe Jesus was the Son of God in Heaven BEFORE being a man?

 

[One Baptism]

I know the answer , I was asking him. You did not get the question as well.

Do you believe Jesus was the Son of God in Heaven BEFORE being a man?

I am not sure how my reply does not specifically answer this question, even from the very first line.

The person of the Son of God [the Father] always existed in eternity past before the earth was ever formed, thus existed before mankind ever was called into existence. The name Jesus simply means JEHOVAH is Saviour. his name is found throughout the OT [H3444] - "yeshû‛âh", which is great for witnessing to Jews and Muslims with [for they always ask if Jesus is mentioned by name in the OT, and the answer is "Yes."]:

For instance see:

Genesis 49:18 KJB - I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD.

Exodus 14:13 KJB - And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.

2 Chronicles 20:17 KJB - Ye shall not need to fight in this battle: set yourselves, stand ye still, and see the salvation of the LORD with you, O Judah and Jerusalem: fear not, nor be dismayed; to morrow go out against them: for the LORD will be with you.

Jonah 2:9 KJB - But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.

Psalms 119:174 KJB - I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

JEHOVAH Jesus, etc.​

Total KJB Occurrences: 78

salvation, 65

Gen_49:18, Exo_14:13, Exo_15:2, Deu_32:15, 1Sa_2:1, 1Sa_14:45, 2Sa_22:51, 1Ch_16:23, 2Ch_20:17, Job_13:16, Psa_3:8, Psa_9:14, Psa_13:5, Psa_14:7, Psa_20:5, Psa_21:1, Psa_21:5, Psa_35:3, Psa_35:9, Psa_53:6, Psa_62:1-2 (2), Psa_62:6, Psa_68:19, Psa_69:29, Psa_70:4, Psa_74:12, Psa_78:22, Psa_88:1, Psa_89:26, Psa_91:16, Psa_106:2-4 (4), Psa_118:13-15 (3), Psa_118:21, Psa_119:123, Psa_119:155, Psa_119:166, Psa_119:174, Psa_140:7, Psa_149:4, Isa_12:2-3 (3), Isa_25:9, Isa_33:1-2 (2), Isa_49:6 (2), Isa_49:8, Isa_51:6, Isa_51:8, Isa_52:7, Isa_52:10, Isa_56:1, Isa_59:11, Isa_60:17-18 (2), Isa_62:1, Jon_2:9, Hab_3:8
​

health, 3

Psa_42:11, Psa_43:5, Psa_67:2
​

help, 3

2Sa_10:11, Psa_3:2, Psa_42:5
​

deliverance, 2

Psa_18:50, Isa_26:18
​

saving, 2

Psa_28:8, Psa_67:2
​

deliverances, 1

Psa_44:4
​

save, 1

Psa_80:2
​

welfare, 1

Job_30:15​

 

[loDebar]

The SDA, all branches Mormons all groups JW's, and even Islam share similar end time prophecy where the groups of their religion will be better and better (holier) till they can be the same as Heaven. This simple test or question can show the truth of any group. All these are the same lie different versions but the same based on Human performance to achieve perfection.

 

[One Baptism]

The SDA, all branches Mormons all groups JW's, and even Islam share similar end time prophecy where the groups of their religion will be better and better (holier) till they can be the same as Heaven. This simple test or question can show the truth of any group. All these are the same lie different versions but the same based on Human performance to achieve perfection.

Could you begin a new thread on this? This one is to end soon, and I do not desire to reply with so short a time left here in this one.