What is the point of this verse?

[reformedbeliever]

There is a big difference. We can't say we are kept by the power of God and do such things, that would involve God in a Homo act.

What about involving God in speaking down to people? Calling grown men "boy", that sort of thing? Bob, we all fall short of the perfection of God. That is what you are failing to realize.

 

[Brother Bob]

I am sorry but I do not equate such acts with angry. As a Pastor, I do have to judge who is unworthy to be in our membership and he would be a goner before he ever came through the door.
God will do a shaken up of the Church one day and cleanse it of all this filthyness. It is the duty of all Christian to keep God's church as clean as they by the Grace of God are able to understand. Men will pay for not keeping the house of God clean.
I care for all you fellows but you will not convince me that such an act can be done by a child of God. Neither will you convince me that such an act is no different than getting angry, which Jesus said "get angry but sin not and don't let the sun go down on your wrath".
All I see on TV anymore is these men in high places fooling around with other men or little boys and I am sick to the core of it. What hurts more is that they are still considered Christians. God help us,

 

[Brother Bob]

What about involving God in speaking down to people? Calling grown men "boy", that sort of thing? Bob, we all fall short of the perfection of God. That is what you are failing to realize.

To compare that with this Homo is completely "silly" and does not deserve a response.

 

[webdog]

Homo is a sin but you can be saved and do it but keep repenting and you be alright.

Is there certain sin that weighs more to God...or is it man doing the weighing? All mankind died the day Adam was disobedient. Would disobedience be considered a "worse" sin today than homosexuality? I believe God only sees sin...regardless of how we classify it. If you don't believe a true Christian can keep sinning and repenting, I don't know if there is a believer out there who doesn't struggle with some sin, be it anger, idolatry, gluttony (which I see at 99.9% of all pot lucks), dishonesty, etc.

 

[reformedbeliever]

To compare that with this Homo is completely "silly" and does not deserve a response.

Compared to God's holiness, our best is as filthy rags. Calling another pastor silly is also.

 

[webdog]

I care for all you fellows but you will not convince me that such an act can be done by a child of God. Neither will you convince me that such an act is no different than getting angry, which Jesus said "get angry but sin not and don't let the sun go down on your wrath".

Bob, don't let me convince you...let Scripture. You have made the mistake again of judging which sin is worse. Scripture doesn't. Sin separates us from God. Telling a "white lie" is an offense against God in the same way a homosexual act or drunkeness is. Eating too much is sin against God in the same way murder is. We can't, as finite beings, be the judge of what acts of sin weigh heavier to an infinite, all holy God.

 

[Brother Bob]

How would that involve God, I don't understand?

Rom 6:11 So, you too consider yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, so that you obey its desires.

We can be "dead to sin" and still "let" sin reign. Romans 6 shows that we can indeed "let" sin reign and "obey" it's desires. Paul said the same thing after pentecost...after he received the Comforter...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am made out of flesh, sold into sin's power.
Rom 7:15 For I do not understand what I am doing, because I do not practice what I want to do, but I do what I hate.
Rom 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 So now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is sin living in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh. For the desire to do what is good is with me, but there is no ability to do it.
Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that lives in me.
Rom 7:21 So I discover this principle: when I want to do good, evil is with me.
Rom 7:22 For in my inner self I joyfully agree with God's law.
Rom 7:23 But I see a different law in the parts of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and taking me prisoner to the law of sin in the parts of my body.
Rom 7:24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh, to the law of sin.
__________________

1. I will come in and take up my abode with you.

2. It says DO NOT let sin reign. It says whoever you lend your members to you are the servant thereof. I take it that was one of his members. So, he is a servant of the devil.

3.He does what He hates but he did not murder anymore and sure he did not commit homosexual acts.

4.Paul desired to be perfect and so do I and that is all he is talking about. Did you ever read where Paul did anything bad after he was converted?

5. Paul wrestled within himself again to be perfect knowing that he had to wait until the resurrection for the outward man to be perfect.

Bob, don't let me convince you...let Scripture. You have made the mistake again of judging which sin is worse. Scripture doesn't. Sin separates us from God. Telling a "white lie" is an offense against God in the same way a homosexual act or drunkeness is. Eating too much is sin against God in the same way murder is. We can't, as finite beings, be the judge of what acts of sin weigh heavier to an infinite, all holy God.

My Bible teaches me there is a sin that you can pray for and even pray for your brother but there is a sin unto death and I say not to even pray for it. I consider a Homo one of them. To keep him in church you are doing him wrong for he can't get right as long as he is a hypocrit. He needs to get out and repent and be born again for him to have a chance to get to heaven. To keep him in church is the blind leading the blind.

 

[webdog]

1. I will come in and take up my abode with you.

2. It says DO NOT let sin reign. It says whoever you lend your members to you are the servant thereof. I take it that was one of his members.

By saying "do not let sin reign" just proves the fact that sin can indeed reign. If I say to not visit a sponser site displayed here, you still can visit the site.

3.He does what He hates but he did not murder anymore and sure he did not commit homosexual acts.

Scripture doesn't say one way of the other. If he lusted after women (I'm not saying he did, just giving an example), how would that be different in God's eye than commiting adultery with a man? Adultery is adultery, and lust is just that.

4.Paul desired to be perfect and so do I and that is all he is talking about. Did you ever read where Paul did anything bad after he was converted?

It goes beyond desire. Paul states He "does" and "does not"...not strives. Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Luke 18:10-14

I hope we are not like this Pharisee.

 

[Allan]

Bob,

With regard to Hagard, I don't know if he is saved or not and neither do you. I do agree as a Pastor (of which I am) I also understand the guardianship of the flock we are to be about, but that does not make us God to know if a person IS or IS NOT saved. All you can go by is their testimony and the fruits they bare. The whole agry thing was actaully about being angry without sinning. Do you not agree that sin is sin before God, and to break the least is to break even the greatest?

Sin is what, Bob? Missing the mark - falling short of the standard.
So no matte what the sin is they are all equally short of the stardand or mark.

Now I do hold personally to a believer may be able to sin for a period of time (scripure states it as a season) it in no way states season is talking about years. Here in the Dakotas just as the farmers of Christ day understood him and the term seasons was a short period of time in realtion to a year. This is what would be called habitual and or a lifestyle contrary to God.

 

[Brother Bob]

It goes beyond desire. Paul states He "does" and "does not"...not strives. Rom 7:19 For I do not do the good that I want to do, but I practice the evil that I do not want to do.
__________________

Tell me one thing Paul did that was sin unto death?

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob,

With regard to Hagard, I don't know if he is saved or not and neither do you. I do agree as a Pastor (of which I am) I also understand the guardianship of the flock we are to be about, but that does not make us God to know if a person IS or IS NOT saved. All you can go by is their testimony and the fruits they bare. The whole agry thing was actaully about being angry without sinning. Do you not agree that sin is sin before God, and to break the least is to break even the greatest?

That is the Commandments Allan and I just gave you scripture where the Bible gives us a sin a brother can do and sins unto death that a brother cannot do.

 

[webdog]

Now I do hold personally to a believer may be able to sin for a period of time (scripure states it as a season) it in no way states season is talking about years. Here in the Dakotas just as the farmers of Christ day understood him and the term seasons was a short period of time in realtion to a year. This is what would be called habitual and or a lifestyle contrary to God.

In comparison to a lifetime, a season can be any given number of years, too, in the same way a seasone is used within a one year time frame. Growing season is what, 6 months? That's half a year. I have known some Christians who have walked in sin for half their lives. I was one of them (and yes I was saved...am still saved...and will forever be).

 

[Allan]

You have a much different take on that scripture than others.

That sin unto death is about a lifestyle of unconfessed sin and God cuts their life short. There are many scriptures that speak to this cutting ones life short who should be living unto the Lord.

The verse of What Paul states he does though He KNOWS he shouldn't doesn't tell us his sin but that he DOES sin and frequently enough that it compels him in his lament to state "oh retched man that I am.. who can save me...Christ Jesus. and uses the wording that convey an ever present battle (at least at this point in his life

 

[webdog]

Tell me one thing Paul did that was sin unto death?

Bob, the "sin unto death" is corporeal death...not spiritual.

 

[webdog]

You have a much different take on that scripture than others.

That sin unto death is about a lifestyle of unconfessed sin and God cuts their life short. There are many scriptures that speak to this cutting ones life short who should be living unto the Lord.

The verse of What Paul states he does though He KNOWS he shouldn't doesn't tell us his sin but that he DOES sin and frequently enough that it compels him in his lament to state "oh retched man that I am.. who can save me...Christ Jesus. and uses the wording that convey an ever present battle (at least at this point in his life

Amen, Allan. My sister fell under the "sin unto death" crowd when the Lord cut her life short at the age of 25 for getting into some garbage a believer has no business getting into. I do not doubt her salvation at all, and not because she's my sister, but from what I remember of her life prior to her falling away.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, the "sin unto death" is corporeal death...not spiritual.__________________

Then why did he say "I would not say to pray for it" if it were a dead person or someone going to die. Why shouldn't we pray for someone going to die?
I don't believe it is corporeal death but a sin such as we are discussing. It was talking about overtaking a brother in sin, he must of been alive.

Now when it says "many sleep for this cause" I believe it is talking about corporeal death.

 

[Allan]

Yes webdog, but if you will note I said "personally'. It not specifically something I teach but I do know as being both Pastor and Evangelist the VAST majority who claimed salvation but lived years apart from it came to the realization they Never were saved. (and yes I was in this catagory) It is not the rule but there are some basic discripters that show us it is not a life time sin but one that is only there for that season (mostly in short time frames) since God chaistens those He loves and that chaisting and conviction will not allow you to stay away indefinately.

So my time frame is more of a personal thought and not a specific teaching.

 

[Brother Bob]

You brothers fault me all you want but I will still love you. I will never believe a Christian can commit such acts. Let others do as they may but for me and my house and that includes my church we will serve the Lord and that means not to walk with Homos.

 

[Allan]

Well Bob, I have got to go to bed since I just got off work. You have have a good day as we agree to a point and disagree on [a] point :smilewinkgrin:

Webdog:
Enjoy your morning as well.

Let God be praised and His saints declare His Glory, A-Men!