What is the point of this verse?

[webdog]

We're not faulting you, BB. I just pray that your beliefs don't some day do damage to a believer in your church who struggles with sin....any sin, not the ones you want to classify as being worse than others. This may open the door to them thinking they can commit certain sins that "are not as bad".

 

[webdog]

Well Bob, I have got to go to bed since I just got off work. You have have a good day as we agree to a point and disagree on [a] point :smilewinkgrin:

Webdog:
Enjoy your morning as well.

Let God be praised and His saints declare His Glory, A-Men!

Nighty-night...err....Morny-morny

 

[Brother Bob]

We're not faulting you, BB. I just pray that your beliefs don't some day do damage to a believer in your church who struggles with sin....any sin, not the ones you want to classify as being worse than others. This may open the door to them thinking they can commit certain sins that "are not as bad".

My members would not even come back to church if I allowed someone like that to stay among us. Not one member would come back and I would not blame them. I still say this is why there are so many among us that do such things.
I will never forget when Swaggert stood up and said "I have sinned" and got a standing ovation. Made me sick to my stomach.

 

[Jarthur001]

My members would not even come back to church if I allowed someone like that to stay among us. Not one member would come back and I would not blame them. I still say this is why there are so many among us that do such things.
I will never forget when Swaggert stood up and said "I have sinned" and got a standing ovation. Made me sick to my stomach.

You are now talking about church membership. Swaggert should have been kicked out as pastor. Haggard's church did the right thing. I don't care to much for the man, and never did. He was all about numbers. But...I am not the judge. He should never be allowed to preach again, but there are other things he can do.

My wife sent me this...

I personally am sad for Ted Haggard, but I am truly sorry for his wife and children, that because of his lack of judgment, he has now forced them into this situation. Because it is written concerning adultery: "Can a man take fire in his bosom, And his clothes not be burned? Or can a man walk on hot coals, And his feet not be scorched?" (Proverbs 6:27-28) And I also don't find it odd that the book Tozer on Christian Leadership which I read every morning has this particular devotion for today, November 7:

"There are a lot of people trying to get away with the old man. What do I mean by the old man? I mean your pride, your bossiness, your nastiness, your temper, your mean disposition, your lustfulness and your quarrelsomeness. What do I mean, Reverend? I mean your study, your hunting for a bigger church, being dissatisfied with the offering and blaming the superintendent because you cannot get called. The reason you cannot get called is nobody wants you. That is what I mean, Reverend."

"Deacons, what do I mean? I mean sitting around in board meetings wearing your poor pastor out, because you are too stubborn to humble yourself and admit you are wrong. What do I mean, musicians? I mean that demeanor that makes you hate somebody that can sing a little better than you can. I mean that jealousy that makes you want to play the violin when everybody knows you can't, especially the choir director. You hate him, wish he were dead, and secretly pray that he would get called to Punxsutawney. That is what I mean."

"All of this may be under the guise of spirituality and we may have learned to put our head over on one side, fold our hands gently and put on a beatific smile like St. Francis of Assisi, and still be just as carnal as they come." (Success and the Christian, 042-044)."

"May Your Holy Spirit bring the proper conviction and repentance to my heart and give me victory over any of these carnal thoughts that might be mine today. Amen." (Tozer on Christian Leadership, November 7)

Posted by Rev. Ken Silva on November 7, 2006 @ 08:10 AM
The Christian Life

Ted Haggard was wrong!! He brought shame to his wife and his church. God will deal with him and is dealing with him now. Yet, I cannot say he was not saved. Nor can i understand why he did this. The fact is, I do not know the mans heart. Really, I never heard him preach, but you would think he used the right words. Was it all a fake? I have no idea. God knows his heart.

I know this...I did not like the way he acted on TV..."I'm winning because I have more people in my church",..is nothing but pride. Like I said..I do not care for him...but I hate to see the church of God mocked by the news. We can forgive...but people pay for their sins. Haggard can teach, do missions work what have ya, if he gets right with God, but never pastor! The sin is to public for this. This is not to the sin as much as it is to the public eye. It would be the same if a pastor lied to the court and all the world saw it. How could you trust a someone like that? well...i'll stop now.

just my thoughts


In christ...James

 

[jne1611]

Maybe not a golden calf but golden jersey football players, or baseball, or pool, or tv shows, or Baptist Board, or ect... Anything can be an idol and an idol is ANYTHING that even for a time is as or more important than God. Do we reject God and follow after these idols is the question. Can a christian lie, lust, envy for these are no diffent than that of idolitry sinse there is not difference to God in the measure of one sin over another except unbelief or Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

Our spirit is clean and untouchable by the taint of sin and it is this that can not sin. Yet that does not mean we can not fall short of Gods desire for us to live Godly in these fleshly and corrupt bodies of death which war with our spirit. And we all know what falling short means - Sin. But not sin unto damnation but sin that leads to reproof or correction. We are to (as Paul states) bring our bodies into subjection, and he states we are to renew our minds. What would the purpose of this be if we can not sin. If we can not sin HOW is there a war in our members?

Amen.:thumbs:

 

[jne1611]

Bob, the "sin unto death" is corporeal death...not spiritual.

To this I would have to agree. He did say "brother" when speaking about the sin unto death.

 

[Brother Bob]

Our spirit is clean and untouchable by the taint of sin and it is this that can not sin. Yet that does not mean we can not fall short of Gods desire for us to live Godly in these fleshly and corrupt bodies of death which war with our spirit. And we all know what falling short means - Sin. But not sin unto damnation but sin that leads to reproof or correction. We are to (as Paul states) bring our bodies into subjection, and he states we are to renew our minds. What would the purpose of this be if we can not sin. If we can not sin HOW is there a war in our members?Amen

I don't really disagree with this except what the sins are maybe.

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by webdog
Bob, the "sin unto death" is corporeal death...not spiritual.
To this I would have to agree. He did say "brother" when speaking about the sin unto death.

I disagree. If you overtake a brother in sin then he must not be in a sin unto death for it says to try and help him. but goes on and says there is a sin and there is a sin unto death and I would not say to pray for it. Well, the person was not dead and we all have seen sin that was terrible and yet they lived. I wonder if this Haggard will live.

 

[jne1611]

I disagree. If you overtake a brother in sin then he must not be in a sin unto death for it says to try and help him. but goes on and says there is a sin and there is a sin unto death and I would not say to pray for it. Well, the person was not dead and we all have seen sin that was terrible and yet they lived. I wonder if this Haggard will live.

Bob, what would you define as "a sin unto death?" Does John give a definition. And more importantly, does John forbid prayer for one in such a shape? Or does he just not give the command to pray for such a one? I am not trying to get you tag teamed. I just want your take on this, because you have said some things that seem to reflect that what you have said is a mixture of what you believe the Bible teaches, but also seems to be church policy in play as well.

 

[Brother Bob]

Let me put it this way.

Homo is surely one of them.

 

[Jarthur001]

Let me put it this way.

Homo is surely one of them.

Who says what sins are on the list??

Like..to lie Is that on the list? If not why?

or..maybe we have a list in the Bible?

ok...HOMO is one. Give me the whole list...or where to find the list

 

[jne1611]

Let me put it this way.

Homo is surely one of them.

What else? Bob, how would you know what to pray for & what not under that standard? Are you saying that you cant pray for this preacher? If your answer be yes, then, what is your authority for this? Your supposition that this is the sin intended? Are you willing to stand on that?

 

[Brother Bob]

I use Ten Commandments as Paul did for they sure killed him. I was once alive without the Law the Commandments came sin revived and I died. He even quoted some of them as Jesus did. Now I know you all will have something to say about the Law of Moses but I use what Jesus used and that was Ten Commandments. Now, if you lie that is up to you but don't accuse me of it. My Bible says them that maketh a lie will not be in Heaven, so lie if you want.

 

[Jarthur001]

I use Ten Commandments as Paul did for they sure killed him. I was once alive without the Law the Commandments came sin revived and I died. He even quoted some of them as Jesus did. Now I know you all will have something to say about the Law of Moses but I use what Jesus used and that was Ten Commandments. Now, if you lie that is up to you but don't accuse me of it. My Bible says them that maketh a lie will not be in Heaven, so lie if you want.

The ten commandments does not use the word lie. It uses false witness. You have false witnessed on here a few times. Now most of the time you came back and said your were sorry, for you misunderstood. But what I need to ask, is when you false witnessed did you lose your salvation? Or does this mean you were not saved?

 

[Brother Bob]

You are so wrong most of the time James. If I make a mistake it is not false witness. You are accusing me of something I did not do. You need to apologize to me for making a false statement about me. Now as far as false witness it is to condemn the Free-wills while being a member of a Free-will church and all the time being a Calvinist. Now that is false witnessing and being a hypocrit.

 

[Jarthur001]

You are so wrong most of the time James. If I make a mistake it is not false witness. You are accusing me of something I did not do. You need to apologize to me for making a false statement about me. Now as far as false witness it is to condemn the Free-wills while being a member of a Free-will church and all the time being a Calvinist. Now that is false witnessing and being a hypocrit.

In other words, all I would need to do, is post where you said false statements about me or anyone else and you would have just now made another false statement. Is this right?

If I can not find one, I am wrong and I will also pay you 100,000 bucks.

If I do find one...no... make that 10, All you need to do is say ok..i lied. Do we have a deal?

or...

Are you saying...posting things that are not true is not a sin, but just a mistake???

 

[jne1611]

I use Ten Commandments as Paul did for they sure killed him. I was once alive without the Law the Commandments came sin revived and I died. He even quoted some of them as Jesus did. Now I know you all will have something to say about the Law of Moses but I use what Jesus used and that was Ten Commandments. Now, if you lie that is up to you but don't accuse me of it. My Bible says them that maketh a lie will not be in Heaven, so lie if you want.

10 commandments? Bob, do you not realize that Christ handed down thousands of commandments while on earth? Your going to reduce all those to just 10 to be the most important? Did Christ not say that all those hung on 2 Commandments? And are you going to say that you have loved thy neighbour as your self all the time? or for that matter loved the Lord your God with ALL your heart all the time? Christ said "If you love me, keep my commandments" Have you broken any of his commandments since you were saved?

 

[Brother Bob]

In other words, all I would need to do, is post where you said false statements about me or anyone else and you would have just now made another false statement. Is this right?

No, it would not be right. If I made a mistake is one thing, if I were kidding you is another but if I attempted to deceive you then yes.

I don't wager for that is sin also.

 

[Brother Bob]

10 commandments? Bob, do you not realize that Christ handed down thousands of commandments while on earth? Your going to reduce all those to just 10 to be the most important? Did Christ not say that all those hung on 2 Commandments? And are you going to say that you have loved thy neighbour as your self all the time? or for that matter loved the Lord your God with ALL your heart all the time? Christ said "If you love me, keep my commandments" Have you broken any of his commandments since you were saved?

Do you accept the word of the Lord for He said on these two hang ALL the Law and the prophets. For once be honest.

 

[Brother Bob]

[Are you saying...posting things that are not true is not a sin, but just a mistake???

You think this is impossible?