What is the point of this verse?

[Brother Bob]

A typical response from you. You would rather prove me wrong and stand with the homo than to agree with me and try to upbuild God's church.

Think I go to bed I feel sick to my stomach.

 

[jne1611]

If the steps of a good man are ordered of the Lord then how can he be out being a Homo, while also standing in Holy ground in the pulpit? Don't you ever think, maybe I need to get of BBob's side for a change for he is standing up for the Lord's house.

I believe the Lord shoud come first, not you, not me and certainly not that Homo. As a Christian why are you not standing up for the house of the Lord instead of a Homo?

I have not stood up for a homo? There you go again. I have asked you questions & got nothing from you but accusations!

 

[Brother Bob]

What are you standing up for then. Its all about the Homo whether he should be kicked out or keep him.

Why don't you just join hands with me and together we can try to upbuild the church?

 

[Allan]

Bob, you stated:

Why are we on opposite sides when it comes to keeping a clean church?

We are not on opposite sides when it comes to keeping the church clean, but on opposing views when it come to the MEASURES which we would use to Clean the church.

I 'think' I speak for many on here when I say the measures you state you would use at the first are what is considered somewhat if not shocking. Where you see it as a first move, many see it as a last resort that the counsil of God may be fully known in the matter since each incident is different and therefore needful to be handled with Loving care but a shepards rod.

So it is not that we are on opposite side of scripture against sin in the body of Christ but differing views as to how to deal with it.

Peace? :1_grouphug:

The other issue of what sins are of death and others that are just sins...well that is another matter. :tongue3:

 

[Brother Bob]

If I want to hold our church together then our first reaction on a Homo is to withdraw from him. If I did otherwise it would split us wide open but even as I believe in my heart I would not keep him. Again, I do not think a person can get right with the church keeping him as a member and not putting such from among you. Man, would I dread going to church if I knew that I had members like that. I want Christians as members not homos.

 

[Allan]

Again, I do not think a person can get right with the church keeping him as a member and not putting such from among you. Man, would I dread going to church if I knew that I had members like that. I want Christians as members not homos.

I agree if they do not repent.
If someone asks for forgiveness will you deny them??
Will your church deny them??
Do not forget that scripture states we are to RESTORE those who have fallen... but I also agree there are circumstances that need to be looked at and not just oh it's ok just don't do it again babysitter type attitude.
Anyone Bob who does ANY sin, is guilty of being as that sin discribes.
If we tell an innocent lie (example - Santa Clause) we ARE a lier!
If we envy or desire (lust) that we may have for US (mine, mine - I diserve it) we are idoliters.
If we do not love God with ALL our heart, mind, strength (body, soul, spirit - our whole being) we have other gods before Him
If we hate or have unforgiveness we are murderers
If we lust after the same sex we are Homosexual

This list as you know goes on and on but the fact remains IF ONE DOES NOT REPENT he is in his sin and therefore IS, but if one repent and turn away He is Christ.

So all I am saying is that a repentent heart is the mark of one who is of Christ. But the truth of that repentence is played out over time and thus showing via fruit of the Spirit works meet for repentence verify they are of the Lord.

 

[Brother Bob]

Mat 5:29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

If that church where he belongs keeps him then the whole body will suffer for it. Should I keep such a one and destroy the whole church?

Also, your list. A lie is to try to deceive someone not "Santa Clause".

Lust goes much farther than seeing something you like.

Love of God, I sure hope my love for him is with all my might. it was when I first came in and hope it still is.

Hate, we hate the sin not the sinner.

lust after the same sex is for sure homo.

I say Allan, to make it as sure as you can. To keep God's house as Holy as you know how and to press on to the prize of the mark of the high calling. God Bless,

A repentant heart is a heart that would not do the church harm or bring reproach upon the church and would withdraw, get themselves cleaned up and then come back. I am not talking about "getting angry here", but such stuff as homo of which this discussion is about. To bring in sins such as being angry with this homo is no comparison and should not be brought into a homo discussion as such.

 

[webdog]

A repentant heart is a heart that would not do the church harm or bring reproach upon the church and would withdraw, get themselves cleaned up and then come back. I am not talking about "getting angry here", but such stuff as homo of which this discussion is about. To bring in sins such as being angry with this homo is no comparison and should not be brought into a homo discussion as such.

BB, sin is sin.

 

[Brother Bob]

Homo and being angry is not the same with God for there is a sin and there is a sin unto death. If you see someone angry do you feel the same about them as you do someone who is a habitual homo?

Galatians, chapter 5
18: But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20: Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21: Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23: Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24: And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25: If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26: Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

You see where it says "and such like".

 

[webdog]

Homo and being angry is not the same with God for there is a sin and there is a sin unto death. If you see someone angry do you feel the same about them as you do someone who is a habitual homo?

There are certain punishments reserved for certain sin, as is evident by blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but to God sin is sin. Disobedience started this whole game of sin rolling along in the garden. That was a "sin unto death". We as humans put degrees on which sins are worse, but I don't think it can be shown from Scripture God does.

 

[Brother Bob]

Then why is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost different?
Why did He say with some devils it takes much prayer and fasting?

 

[npetreley]

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

It seems pretty obvious to me that if a church member is returning to a life of sin - any type of sin - that is a concern and must be dealt with appropriately.

However, if a church assumes its services perform the job of outreach, even if only in part, then that particular purpose is to preach the Gospel to the lost who may attend. In that case, why would one deny entry to any type of sinner, if indeed that's what the issue is?

 

[Brother Bob]

You misunderstand. I would not deny him to come to our church. I would deny him membership until he repented and was "born again".

11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

But they believed and repented and was baptized.

 

[jne1611]

Bob, you stated:

We are not on opposite sides when it comes to keeping the church clean, but on opposing views when it come to the MEASURES which we would use to Clean the church.

I 'think' I speak for many on here when I say the measures you state you would use at the first are what is considered somewhat if not shocking. Where you see it as a first move, many see it as a last resort that the counsil of God may be fully known in the matter since each incident is different and therefore needful to be handled with Loving care but a shepards rod.

So it is not that we are on opposite side of scripture against sin in the body of Christ but differing views as to how to deal with it.

Peace? :1_grouphug:

The other issue of what sins are of death and others that are just sins...well that is another matter. :tongue3:

Amen!:applause:

 

[jne1611]

Mat 5:29And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

If that church where he belongs keeps him then the whole body will suffer for it. Should I keep such a one and destroy the whole church?

Also, your list. A lie is to try to deceive someone not "Santa Clause".

Lust goes much farther than seeing something you like.

Love of God, I sure hope my love for him is with all my might. it was when I first came in and hope it still is.

Hate, we hate the sin not the sinner.

lust after the same sex is for sure homo.

I say Allan, to make it as sure as you can. To keep God's house as Holy as you know how and to press on to the prize of the mark of the high calling. God Bless,

A repentant heart is a heart that would not do the church harm or bring reproach upon the church and would withdraw, get themselves cleaned up and then come back. I am not talking about "getting angry here", but such stuff as homo of which this discussion is about. To bring in sins such as being angry with this homo is no comparison and should not be brought into a homo discussion as such.

Where is your Scripture for this?

 

[jne1611]

You misunderstand. I would not deny him to come to our church. I would deny him membership until he repented and was "born again".

But they believed and repented and was baptized.

Maybe I come closer to seeing your stand on this. Are you saying that a Christian is incapable of say, committing adultery or killing someone? I mean, not living that kind of life, but falling prey to that type of sin. Do you believe that there is no possibility of a believer who is truly saved doing anything like that? Please understand me this time Bob. I am not saying being a habitual adulterer or drunk. I mean falling into the sin period.

 

[Brother Bob]

Maybe I come closer to seeing your stand on this. Are you saying that a Christian is incapable of say, committing adultery or killing someone? I mean, not living that kind of life, but falling prey to that type of sin. Do you believe that there is no possibility of a believer who is truly saved doing anything like that? Please understand me this time Bob. I am not saying being a habitual adulterer or drunk. I mean falling into the sin period.

You got it jne; that is what I believe. How could the steps of a good man be ordered of the Lord and he become a homo?

A repentant heart is a heart that would not do the church harm or bring reproach upon the church and would withdraw, get themselves cleaned up and then come back. I am not talking about "getting angry here", but such stuff as homo of which this discussion is about. To bring in sins such as being angry with this homo is no comparison and should not be brought into a homo discussion as such.

If you love me you will keep my Commandments for one.

This is scripture too!

2Th 3:6 ¶ Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

 

[jne1611]

You got it jne; that is what I believe. How could the steps of a good man be ordered of the Lord and he become a homo?


If you love me you will keep my Commandments for one.

This is scripture too!

2Th 3:6 ¶ Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Bob, I have seen your point, but the Scripture you gave seems to support the fact that their involvement in disobedience does not mean they are lost, but need to repent.
Please do not misjudge my spirit in this. I did not read this passage seeking to prove you wrong. If I am wrong, I want to know it, but I see the reproof of a true believer in view here. What do you think?

 

[Brother Bob]

2: And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.
3: But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
4: And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
5: And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
6: Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.



11: For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.


verse 11: yes he was a busybody

verse 2: No, he was wicked

1 Timothy, chapter 6



"1": Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

"2": And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.

"3": If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

"4": He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

"5": Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

"6": But godliness with contentment is great gain.

"7": For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

2 Corith:6

"14": Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

"15": And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

"16": And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

"17": Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

 

[Brother Bob]

1 Corth: 5
9": I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

"10": Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

"11": But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

"12": For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

"13": But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.



Ephesians, chapter 5



"1": Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

"2": And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour.

"3": But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

"4": Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.



2 Peter, chapter 2



"1": But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

"2": And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

"3": And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

"4": For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Make it as sure as you can jne; and do your best to keep God's house clean.