C
Copper
Guest
I've heard some people talking about the Purpose Driven Life. Does anyone have any insight as to what this is and if it is scripturally sound or not?
Just curious,
Copper
Just curious,
Copper
-
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APuritanMindset
New Member
It's a book by Rick Warren. I didn't personally like it a whole lot. it didn't seem doctrinally unsound so much as just very simple. You can read it if you want to, but it's not gonna make you a "bad Christian" if you don't.
I agree with APuritanMindset. I was not impressed and be honest was bored by the book. It is a overhyped book. I don't think it is doctrinally unsound but neither is it that good. It is milk but for a much better devotional get THE CHRISTIAN IN COMPLETE ARMOR by William Gurnall's daily readings by Moody Press along with a One Year Bible and I think you will do better. There is some meat there!
C
Copper
Guest
Thanks. I was just curious as to what this was all about. Not much into faddish Christianity and this sort of smacked of being a fad - if that makes any sense.
Victory in Jesus
New Member
It seems to be more of a devotional book. I like the book and in fact, our Sunday morning Bible class is using it now as a basis for the lessons (not a substitute for the Bible, though). I think the book was written to help us remember to keep our eyes off our selfish little selves and back on the Lord and His purpose for our lives. Here are the chapters:
WHAT ON EARTH AM I HERE FOR?
It all starts with God
You are not an accident
What drives your life?
Made to last forever
Seeing life from God's view
Life is a temporary assignment
The reason for everything
PURPOSE 1; YOU WERE PLANNED FOR GOD'S PLEASURE
Planned for God's pleasure
What makes God smile?
The heart of worship
Becoming best friends with God
Developing your friendship with God
Worship that pleases God
When God seems distant
PURPOSE 2; YOU WERE FORMED FOR GOD'S FAMILY
Formed for God's family
What matters most
A place to belong
Experiencing life together
Cultivating community
Restoring broken fellowship
Protecting your church
PURPOSE 3; YOU WERE CREATED TO BECOME LIKE CHRIST
Created to become like Christ
How we grow
Transformed by truth
Transformed by trouble
Growing through temptation
Defeating temptation
It takes time
PURPOSE 4; YOU WERE SHAPED FOR SERVING GOD
Accepting your assignment
Shaped for serving God
Understanding your shape
Using what God gave you
How real servants act
Thinking like a servant
God's power in your weakness
PURPOSE 5; YOU WERE MADE FOR A MISSION
Made for a mission
Sharing your life message
Becoming a world-class Christian
Balancing your life
Living with a purpose
Each chapter begins with "Day **" such as:
"Day 40 Living with a Purpose 312"
I don't think it's a fad. I'd think the WWJD bracelets would be considered more of a fad. This is just a book that helps us remember we aren't here to seek our own pleasures, etc.
Thanks for the recommendation for the book THE CHRISTIAN IN COMPLETE ARMOR, Kiffen. I'll look for that book next time I'm out.
WHAT ON EARTH AM I HERE FOR?
It all starts with God
You are not an accident
What drives your life?
Made to last forever
Seeing life from God's view
Life is a temporary assignment
The reason for everything
PURPOSE 1; YOU WERE PLANNED FOR GOD'S PLEASURE
Planned for God's pleasure
What makes God smile?
The heart of worship
Becoming best friends with God
Developing your friendship with God
Worship that pleases God
When God seems distant
PURPOSE 2; YOU WERE FORMED FOR GOD'S FAMILY
Formed for God's family
What matters most
A place to belong
Experiencing life together
Cultivating community
Restoring broken fellowship
Protecting your church
PURPOSE 3; YOU WERE CREATED TO BECOME LIKE CHRIST
Created to become like Christ
How we grow
Transformed by truth
Transformed by trouble
Growing through temptation
Defeating temptation
It takes time
PURPOSE 4; YOU WERE SHAPED FOR SERVING GOD
Accepting your assignment
Shaped for serving God
Understanding your shape
Using what God gave you
How real servants act
Thinking like a servant
God's power in your weakness
PURPOSE 5; YOU WERE MADE FOR A MISSION
Made for a mission
Sharing your life message
Becoming a world-class Christian
Balancing your life
Living with a purpose
Each chapter begins with "Day **" such as:
"Day 40 Living with a Purpose 312"
I don't think it's a fad. I'd think the WWJD bracelets would be considered more of a fad. This is just a book that helps us remember we aren't here to seek our own pleasures, etc.
Thanks for the recommendation for the book THE CHRISTIAN IN COMPLETE ARMOR, Kiffen. I'll look for that book next time I'm out.
APuritanMindset
New Member
I don't think it was originally intended to be a fad, but it has kinda become one. Afterall, look at all the "Purpose Driven" stuff out there.
C
Copper
Guest
Exactly. It seems gimmicky and faddish. I pivot and run whenever I get a sense of something being "New and Improved..."
Thanks for the information though.
The main problems I have with the book is the fact that it takes alot of Scripture out of context in order to fit the theme of the book. Also,Rick uses several different kinds of Bibles calling them all translations. Some are paraphrases, not translations BIG difference.
In the intro of the book he sites several occasions in which he (Rick) claims that God used 40 days to transform certain people in the Bible.
For example he says David was "transformed" during the 40 days Goliath came out and taunted Israel. Where is that found in Scripture. David was ready to do battle with the giant due to all the preparation he received while tending sheep.
Rick says Noah was "transformed" during the 40 days of the flood. where is that in Scripture?
Rick says of all things that Jesus was "empowered" during his 40 days in the wilderness. Yes Rick uses the exact word empowered. This is very strange. I thought Jesus was God in the Flesh as well as being human. Did Jesus not have power before these 40 days. See what I mean by distorting things to fit the theme of his book. Rick Warren received his Master's Degree at Fuller Seminary. Fuller has long since departed from the right path. They don't even recognize the Bible as inerrant. Go to their website and see. Rick Warren is highly influenced by Robert Schuller and even Norman Vincent Peale.
Just go and pick up the new biography written on Rick Warren in the your local Christian bkstr.
He is a preacher of the "positive only" stuff.
Even Catholic parrishes are using the PDL book. Does that tell you how vague the book is? I have had to endure two different pastors going through the silly thing. I've read it several times just to be able to refute the thing.
I could say alot more but I have to go.
In the intro of the book he sites several occasions in which he (Rick) claims that God used 40 days to transform certain people in the Bible.
For example he says David was "transformed" during the 40 days Goliath came out and taunted Israel. Where is that found in Scripture. David was ready to do battle with the giant due to all the preparation he received while tending sheep.
Rick says Noah was "transformed" during the 40 days of the flood. where is that in Scripture?
Rick says of all things that Jesus was "empowered" during his 40 days in the wilderness. Yes Rick uses the exact word empowered. This is very strange. I thought Jesus was God in the Flesh as well as being human. Did Jesus not have power before these 40 days. See what I mean by distorting things to fit the theme of his book. Rick Warren received his Master's Degree at Fuller Seminary. Fuller has long since departed from the right path. They don't even recognize the Bible as inerrant. Go to their website and see. Rick Warren is highly influenced by Robert Schuller and even Norman Vincent Peale.
Just go and pick up the new biography written on Rick Warren in the your local Christian bkstr.
He is a preacher of the "positive only" stuff.
Even Catholic parrishes are using the PDL book. Does that tell you how vague the book is? I have had to endure two different pastors going through the silly thing. I've read it several times just to be able to refute the thing.
I could say alot more but I have to go.
Victory in Jesus
New Member
And this is what happens when ignorance gains control of the mike.
I guess I should have read the book before I made any comments. Sorry 'bout that. I should have known better.
I remember those guys. I had to read their books and listen to their tapes when I got caught up in a scamway cult just emerging out of my teen years. I was supposed to be a millionaire by the age of 21.
All about Grace
New Member
That's a great spirit and attitude.
Most of your criticisms are invalid and simply demonstrate your lack of knowledge regarding Rick Warren and his ministry.
I liked the book. It was not my favorite but I enjoyed reading it. I haven't been through the Purpose Driven Church yet. I have too many other books I have to read.
Its not a book that I go tell everyone I know to read, but I thought it was worth reading, eventhough I usually read other types of devotional books.
In Christ,
Brooks
Its not a book that I go tell everyone I know to read, but I thought it was worth reading, eventhough I usually read other types of devotional books.
In Christ,
Brooks
Look I don't think He is a heretic for crying out loud. However, The general purposes of the book are healthy things for anybody. Still, if you do a little research on where He gets his some of his philosophy for ministry, he has some weird bedfellows. He states himself that Robert Schuller is one of his mentors. He has stated on more than one occasion that He hardly ever preaches on prophecy. I've been a pastor for several years before God called me to the mission field. One thing that has me concerned is how all these mega churches Saddleback, willowcreek etc.. They package all their materials from the sermon transcripts on down. I mean hey why bother with getting alone with God in prayer and laboring over Scripture to receive a word from God when all you gotta do is just buy your sermon on-line.
I think we need to be very,leary of 2 or 3 fellows peddling their wares to thousands of churches. For those of you who think the PDL is so great just take one Bible translation instead of about 20 diff. ones like He does in the book. Use that one traslation to look up all the Scriptures he quotes in the book. You will then see that you have to take Scripture out of context to make some of his ideas make sense.
Rick got his M.Div. at Fuller. They abandoned inerrancy of Scripture long, long, ago. I'm not trying to say "guilt by association" however I've been to Bible college and Seminary and no matter what you say where you go to school is gonna rub off a little bit.Me personally, I would never attend Robert Schuller's church leadership conf. much less speak at it like R.Warren. Schuller IS A HERETIC plain and simple. He preaches a false Gospel. Any Baptist preacher of any stripe worth his salt ought to point that out instead giving the impression that,that dude is on the level because he isn't. Call me judgemental or whatever you want. What people need today is men of God that preach verse by verse instead of topic by topic. especially some topic they downloaded from some big time preacher then dress it up and call it their own. The best thing a preacher can do (I'm talking about myself as well) is get alone with God and His book and not get up until he has a Word from the Almighty.
I never will forget what Holmer Lindsey the great pastor of First Baptist Jacksonville said in Chapel at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary He said men "Don't hop the first train that comes to town" He was talking about fads that come along in the ministry. So I'm just saying just alot of people are swallowing this PDL stuff hook,line and sinker. It is just my opinion but I think its shallow, Now the next thing is the P.E.A.C.E plan. please all that is is the peace corps with some Christian window dressing. Warren said the first reformation was about doctrine now he thinks he is going to be leading the church into the second reformation only this reformation is going to be about how the church does ministry or something to that effect. Man, how did the church ever make it until this self proclaimed reformer came along. I don't think when Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis that He conciously decided he was going to launch the reformation. Unlike bro. Rick who has announced it to the world. I just think alot of what the Church Growth guru's impart to us is what Dr. Jerry Vines calls "church Lite" you know its not the Ten Commandments its eight and you get to pick them that sort of thing. Some of the CGM stuff really turns my stomach. The world is full of people dying and going to an eternal hell and all some can do is just "BE positive" don't be "offensive". Well friends everybody claims to be starving for revival. Well, if some if these cats who are supposed to be on the "cutting edge" of ministry would start preaching the whole council of God instead of just the good stuff then maybe they could "really" have an impact. Just remember 3000 were saved at pentacost when Peter preached. There were some there that day that were so mad they wanted to kill him. His message was mighty strong. Well I'm ramblin now. Maybe tommorrow I'll put up a post that tells ya how I really feel. Maybe I sound a little critical to some if so I'm sorry. This stuff gets me going. I believe our country is on the way out morally. We need stronger preaching in our pulpits not this "fluff" concerning all our "felt needs"
I think we need to be very,leary of 2 or 3 fellows peddling their wares to thousands of churches. For those of you who think the PDL is so great just take one Bible translation instead of about 20 diff. ones like He does in the book. Use that one traslation to look up all the Scriptures he quotes in the book. You will then see that you have to take Scripture out of context to make some of his ideas make sense.
Rick got his M.Div. at Fuller. They abandoned inerrancy of Scripture long, long, ago. I'm not trying to say "guilt by association" however I've been to Bible college and Seminary and no matter what you say where you go to school is gonna rub off a little bit.Me personally, I would never attend Robert Schuller's church leadership conf. much less speak at it like R.Warren. Schuller IS A HERETIC plain and simple. He preaches a false Gospel. Any Baptist preacher of any stripe worth his salt ought to point that out instead giving the impression that,that dude is on the level because he isn't. Call me judgemental or whatever you want. What people need today is men of God that preach verse by verse instead of topic by topic. especially some topic they downloaded from some big time preacher then dress it up and call it their own. The best thing a preacher can do (I'm talking about myself as well) is get alone with God and His book and not get up until he has a Word from the Almighty.
I never will forget what Holmer Lindsey the great pastor of First Baptist Jacksonville said in Chapel at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary He said men "Don't hop the first train that comes to town" He was talking about fads that come along in the ministry. So I'm just saying just alot of people are swallowing this PDL stuff hook,line and sinker. It is just my opinion but I think its shallow, Now the next thing is the P.E.A.C.E plan. please all that is is the peace corps with some Christian window dressing. Warren said the first reformation was about doctrine now he thinks he is going to be leading the church into the second reformation only this reformation is going to be about how the church does ministry or something to that effect. Man, how did the church ever make it until this self proclaimed reformer came along. I don't think when Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis that He conciously decided he was going to launch the reformation. Unlike bro. Rick who has announced it to the world. I just think alot of what the Church Growth guru's impart to us is what Dr. Jerry Vines calls "church Lite" you know its not the Ten Commandments its eight and you get to pick them that sort of thing. Some of the CGM stuff really turns my stomach. The world is full of people dying and going to an eternal hell and all some can do is just "BE positive" don't be "offensive". Well friends everybody claims to be starving for revival. Well, if some if these cats who are supposed to be on the "cutting edge" of ministry would start preaching the whole council of God instead of just the good stuff then maybe they could "really" have an impact. Just remember 3000 were saved at pentacost when Peter preached. There were some there that day that were so mad they wanted to kill him. His message was mighty strong. Well I'm ramblin now. Maybe tommorrow I'll put up a post that tells ya how I really feel. Maybe I sound a little critical to some if so I'm sorry. This stuff gets me going. I believe our country is on the way out morally. We need stronger preaching in our pulpits not this "fluff" concerning all our "felt needs"
All about Grace
New Member
Where is that "blah, blah, blah" graemlin when you need one???
As just for the record (since you seem to revere the Lindsey Vines type), Saddleback baptizes more people every year than all of the recognized mega-church pastors in the SBC. So please do not patronize us with the whole "the world is full of people dying and going to an eternal hell". Unlike most SBC megas, Saddleback's growth rate is 70+% conversions and baptisms. While people are going to Hell, most churches are simply reshuffling the deck / sheep swapping.
As just for the record (since you seem to revere the Lindsey Vines type), Saddleback baptizes more people every year than all of the recognized mega-church pastors in the SBC. So please do not patronize us with the whole "the world is full of people dying and going to an eternal hell". Unlike most SBC megas, Saddleback's growth rate is 70+% conversions and baptisms. While people are going to Hell, most churches are simply reshuffling the deck / sheep swapping.
Dude as far as alot of baptistms are concerned being baptized doesn't mean nothing but getting wet. Since your a "lead" pastor when is the last time you preached on hell? I'm hoping it was not to long ago. When is the last time you preached expositorally? I noticed you failed or chose not to comment on some of the asscoiations Rick keeps. Maybe that doesnt' bother you. I was wrong on one thing. Rick got his M.Div from Southwestern in Texas. Which that school as never been known as a bastion for conservatism either. He recieved somekind of doctrinal degree at Fuller. Anyway ole Doc. Patterson will put Southwestern on the right path. By the way I also revere the Adrian Rogers type as well. These men preach the whole council of God unlike Ricky. Also, just because something is bringing in results doesn't make it right. Also, being big isnt' a chief attribute of being successful in God's eyes. Being faithful is. Spurgeon once said
"Really good wheat often grows in small fields" Also I reccommend you read Spurgeons "Feeding Sheep or Amusing Goats"? It is easy to find on the internet. I would really like to hear your response concerning packaged worship services.
Also, I think it was pretty Cheesy for such a visible,pastor such as Rick Warren to get up in front of 30,000 of his people,while being on TV and sing his rendition of Jimi Hendrix's "Purple Haze". He said "I've always wanted to do that" Fine do it in the shower dude not before thousands of people. That was really uplifting. Especially since ole Jimmy drown in his own vomit due to a drug overdose. I wonder how many young people there that day thought that was cool? I'm not saying it was right or wrong but it was a little selfish considering the fact that many kids are rapped up in dope and rock n roll. I myself can remember being stoned and listening to ole jimmy sing that very song. I was in jail for boozing and doping many,many times until I got saved by the blood of Jesus. Was "purple haze" one of those "new songs" rick talks about in his book. You see the folk that want to be christian and have their "social drink" and listen to their rock n roll , well most of them never got messed up on that junk. So they're just gonna scream and holler "well I got my liberty" . Poor ole joe down the street though is in the bondage of booze. I guess he doesn't matter. I mean hey its my right as a christian, my liberty. Most christians that get hung up on their liberty to do this or that have never matured as a believer enough to know how to handle their liberty and all they are is a stumbling block Rom 14: 21, to some other brother. Yea, ole Ricky has the liberty to sing purple haze at the top of his lungs if he wants to but I tell ya what a line or two of Amazing Grace or some praise n worship song would have been a way better example considering he is such a prominate figure to so many. By the way go get the transcipts of Ricky's appearance on Larry King. He was VANILLA! At least guys like Franklin Graham and Fallwell don't mince words when they have such a platform. Ole Ricky was so generic. He claims that the PDL is not about you yet the whole book is about you.
I gotta go but just watch and see. The larger this PDL movement gets the more vague everything will get. Everybody wants to rally together today to do big things but nobody wants to rally around God's word. Doctrine must guide our evangelism not vica-versa and that is exactly where most mega-churchs are today. Just like Jack Graham getting on the platform in Dallas with TD Jakes for the global day of prayer. TD Jakes is a modalist. (Doesnt believe in Trinity) Jakes is not shy about that fact. But hey thats okay lets all pray together and not mention that. Modalism is pure heresy. So rather than letting his people at Prestonwood know that Jakes is a Modalist. By Graham sharing the platform with Jakes only lends a little more credibility to Jakes ministry which by the way his ministry is to fleece the flock and preach a social Gospel backed up by a modalist view of the God-head. Hey thats cool though because your considered more noble today if you put doctrine aside and unite for the sake of evangelism. Even if who your being seen with is a wolf in sheeps clothing like ole Jakes. You know what would be really healthy for the body of Christ? If prominate, doctrinally sound pastors would expose false teachers from their shows on Sunday instead of turning a blind eye and giving the impression that its kosher just to yoke up with anybody and everybody. I wonder how long Benny Hinn would stay in business if some other prominate evangelicals would call him on the carpet? Hey that just might purify the church and we could see a real revival instead of having to endure all this "happy talk" from guys like Joel Olsteen, Warren, Hybels, etc...
"Really good wheat often grows in small fields" Also I reccommend you read Spurgeons "Feeding Sheep or Amusing Goats"? It is easy to find on the internet. I would really like to hear your response concerning packaged worship services.
Also, I think it was pretty Cheesy for such a visible,pastor such as Rick Warren to get up in front of 30,000 of his people,while being on TV and sing his rendition of Jimi Hendrix's "Purple Haze". He said "I've always wanted to do that" Fine do it in the shower dude not before thousands of people. That was really uplifting. Especially since ole Jimmy drown in his own vomit due to a drug overdose. I wonder how many young people there that day thought that was cool? I'm not saying it was right or wrong but it was a little selfish considering the fact that many kids are rapped up in dope and rock n roll. I myself can remember being stoned and listening to ole jimmy sing that very song. I was in jail for boozing and doping many,many times until I got saved by the blood of Jesus. Was "purple haze" one of those "new songs" rick talks about in his book. You see the folk that want to be christian and have their "social drink" and listen to their rock n roll , well most of them never got messed up on that junk. So they're just gonna scream and holler "well I got my liberty" . Poor ole joe down the street though is in the bondage of booze. I guess he doesn't matter. I mean hey its my right as a christian, my liberty. Most christians that get hung up on their liberty to do this or that have never matured as a believer enough to know how to handle their liberty and all they are is a stumbling block Rom 14: 21, to some other brother. Yea, ole Ricky has the liberty to sing purple haze at the top of his lungs if he wants to but I tell ya what a line or two of Amazing Grace or some praise n worship song would have been a way better example considering he is such a prominate figure to so many. By the way go get the transcipts of Ricky's appearance on Larry King. He was VANILLA! At least guys like Franklin Graham and Fallwell don't mince words when they have such a platform. Ole Ricky was so generic. He claims that the PDL is not about you yet the whole book is about you.
I gotta go but just watch and see. The larger this PDL movement gets the more vague everything will get. Everybody wants to rally together today to do big things but nobody wants to rally around God's word. Doctrine must guide our evangelism not vica-versa and that is exactly where most mega-churchs are today. Just like Jack Graham getting on the platform in Dallas with TD Jakes for the global day of prayer. TD Jakes is a modalist. (Doesnt believe in Trinity) Jakes is not shy about that fact. But hey thats okay lets all pray together and not mention that. Modalism is pure heresy. So rather than letting his people at Prestonwood know that Jakes is a Modalist. By Graham sharing the platform with Jakes only lends a little more credibility to Jakes ministry which by the way his ministry is to fleece the flock and preach a social Gospel backed up by a modalist view of the God-head. Hey thats cool though because your considered more noble today if you put doctrine aside and unite for the sake of evangelism. Even if who your being seen with is a wolf in sheeps clothing like ole Jakes. You know what would be really healthy for the body of Christ? If prominate, doctrinally sound pastors would expose false teachers from their shows on Sunday instead of turning a blind eye and giving the impression that its kosher just to yoke up with anybody and everybody. I wonder how long Benny Hinn would stay in business if some other prominate evangelicals would call him on the carpet? Hey that just might purify the church and we could see a real revival instead of having to endure all this "happy talk" from guys like Joel Olsteen, Warren, Hybels, etc...
All about Grace
New Member
I will simply apply the Proverbs 26.4 principle to ShannonL.
Seems to me that those who condemn PDL the most are those who try make PDL into something that replaces the Bible.
Take the book at face value & don't try to ascribe more to it than RW did, and it turns into a good learning tool.
Billy Graham, Charles Spurgeon, The Apostle Paul, RW ain't, and he doesn't try to be.
It's those who try to make this comparison that have such a prickly feeling toward the book.
There are always those who balk at the success of others; ignore 'em.
Take the book at face value & don't try to ascribe more to it than RW did, and it turns into a good learning tool.
Billy Graham, Charles Spurgeon, The Apostle Paul, RW ain't, and he doesn't try to be.
It's those who try to make this comparison that have such a prickly feeling toward the book.
There are always those who balk at the success of others; ignore 'em.
Ouch! Now that was a good one there Mr. All about Grace. I still would like to hear about your philosophy of ministry. Do you preach on Hell? Do you believe hell is a eternal place? Do you believe when the Bible speaks of fire in hell is it a literal fire? I mean am I a fool because I would like to know where you stand on such a doctrine? I'm a fool because I think its poor decision for a SBC pastor such as Jack Graham to hang out with a heretic like Jakes?
Why does Warren reccomend "breath prayers" in his book? He uses I. Thess 5: 17 - Pray all the time Msg. He then proceeds to tell us how Brother Lawrence,a cook in a french monastary ran around praying these little breath prayers all the time PDL pg.89. Paul was talking about being in an "attitude" of prayer in that passage. We don't have to go around saying these repetative prayers to stay close to God. Ole Bro. Lawrence might have had to do that because he was probably trying to work his way into heaven being Catholic. Rick also quotes Bro.Lawrence at the bottom of page 88 - "I do not advise you to use a great multiplicity of words in prayer, since long discourses are often the occasions for wandering" Really, Bro. Lawrence. Well I guess those 4- 5 hours a day George Mueller spent in prayer didn't accomplish much now did it. IF you read towards the beginning of pg 88 you'll get the feeling ole Bro. Lawrence was trying to please God and win his friendship by the attitude of how he went about his tasks. That was his problem He believed in works + church + sacraments to get to heaven. Why do I as a born again evangelical give two beans about what some searching monk had to say about prayer when its highly likely the poor chap didn't even know about Jesus being able to free him from all his hard work. IT doesnt' matter what attitude you have when your doing your work if you've never trusted in the finished work of the cross. By the way it is my opinion that the Catholic church and those who practice their doctrine are being led astray. Mother Teresa was a hard working gal with good intentions but if she followed her the doctrine of her own church then it is highly likely she is in hell today right beside the Pope who just died. So I don't believe we need to practice these silly "breath prayers" in order to stay close to God. Furthermore, when I read through the Fox's book of Martyrs' and read about all the horrible things that was done to those dear saints by the Catholic Church. I ask myself why is R. Warren a S.Baptist have to reccomend something written by some kind of french monk? It seems like these days the only people who understand that the Catholic church is an heretical cult that hasn't changed one bit since its conception are the people who have been delivered by God's grace from its deception. All these evangelicals want to work together with catholics. that makes me want to throw up. I suppose if the Catholics are okay then God called me to Spain to just try and reach the Muslims. By the way MR. All about Grace I understand whole heartily that we live in a post-modern world. I understand fully that when I go to Spain I'm going to encounter that mindset fullforce. I agree we need to be innovative and try and build bridges and things like that. However; I don't believe we have to lighten the message and throw every tradition out the window to reach the world today. Today's society is no more pagan than it was in Paul's day. So I'm not a total pig head like you may think. I just believe going all New School without any respect for Old School is dangerous. There I rambled on again. Man you were downright COLD quoting Prov.26:4 like that. C'mon and respond to some of my jazz. You say in your profile your a "young leader" well share with me what your style is like. Let's mix it up some just for kicks!
Why does Warren reccomend "breath prayers" in his book? He uses I. Thess 5: 17 - Pray all the time Msg. He then proceeds to tell us how Brother Lawrence,a cook in a french monastary ran around praying these little breath prayers all the time PDL pg.89. Paul was talking about being in an "attitude" of prayer in that passage. We don't have to go around saying these repetative prayers to stay close to God. Ole Bro. Lawrence might have had to do that because he was probably trying to work his way into heaven being Catholic. Rick also quotes Bro.Lawrence at the bottom of page 88 - "I do not advise you to use a great multiplicity of words in prayer, since long discourses are often the occasions for wandering" Really, Bro. Lawrence. Well I guess those 4- 5 hours a day George Mueller spent in prayer didn't accomplish much now did it. IF you read towards the beginning of pg 88 you'll get the feeling ole Bro. Lawrence was trying to please God and win his friendship by the attitude of how he went about his tasks. That was his problem He believed in works + church + sacraments to get to heaven. Why do I as a born again evangelical give two beans about what some searching monk had to say about prayer when its highly likely the poor chap didn't even know about Jesus being able to free him from all his hard work. IT doesnt' matter what attitude you have when your doing your work if you've never trusted in the finished work of the cross. By the way it is my opinion that the Catholic church and those who practice their doctrine are being led astray. Mother Teresa was a hard working gal with good intentions but if she followed her the doctrine of her own church then it is highly likely she is in hell today right beside the Pope who just died. So I don't believe we need to practice these silly "breath prayers" in order to stay close to God. Furthermore, when I read through the Fox's book of Martyrs' and read about all the horrible things that was done to those dear saints by the Catholic Church. I ask myself why is R. Warren a S.Baptist have to reccomend something written by some kind of french monk? It seems like these days the only people who understand that the Catholic church is an heretical cult that hasn't changed one bit since its conception are the people who have been delivered by God's grace from its deception. All these evangelicals want to work together with catholics. that makes me want to throw up. I suppose if the Catholics are okay then God called me to Spain to just try and reach the Muslims. By the way MR. All about Grace I understand whole heartily that we live in a post-modern world. I understand fully that when I go to Spain I'm going to encounter that mindset fullforce. I agree we need to be innovative and try and build bridges and things like that. However; I don't believe we have to lighten the message and throw every tradition out the window to reach the world today. Today's society is no more pagan than it was in Paul's day. So I'm not a total pig head like you may think. I just believe going all New School without any respect for Old School is dangerous. There I rambled on again. Man you were downright COLD quoting Prov.26:4 like that. C'mon and respond to some of my jazz. You say in your profile your a "young leader" well share with me what your style is like. Let's mix it up some just for kicks!
paidagogos
Active Member
That's a great spirit and attitude.
Most of your criticisms are invalid and simply demonstrate your lack of knowledge regarding Rick Warren and his ministry. </font>[/QUOTE]So you say. Now, please back up your assertions by telling us what is inaccurate or wrong with supporting data. Also, your sarcasm is misplaced. Should not a person be knowledgeable (i.e. read it several times) of something in order to refute it? Would you rather that one be ignorant of the thing they oppose?
Do you have reasons that you can articulate or did the criticism of Rick Warren upset your emotions because you like him?