What is the Purpose of the Millennium?

[Mel Miller]

J. Jump,

I like your response as it questions whether
the Millennium is as important for Christians
who "overcome to the End" and survive as it is important for Martyrs who are "beheaded".

The entire Pre-Trib Church Body needs to realize that ITS members are not the prime beneficiaries of the Millennial Reign with Christ ... both on
earth and in heaven.

Quote:
_____________________________________________
"So are you saying that unless a Christian is beheaded they can't experience ruling and reigning with Christ"?
_____________________________________________

My statement might seem to contradict that the
Purpose of the Millennium includes the rule
of worthy Saints UPON the earth. To be sure, Rev.2:25-27 applies to survivors who "overcome to the End". They will rule sitting on thrones UPON the earth.

But at the same time the Millennium is required in order to fulfill the promise for Martyrs to
"reign with Christ" in the Temple of the New Jerusalem before it comes down UPON the earth.

The Temple in heaven will continue to exist for 1000 years until the Martyrs have finished

(1) "Serving God therein where He dwells among them" as stated in Rev.7:15 and until

(2) they "reign with Christ in heaven for 1000 years as stated in Rev.20:4; Rev.7:17 and until

(3) the Lamb "shepherds them and leads them upon fountains of living water" during that period
which begins after they are all "beheaded".

Only after the 1000 year reign of the Martyrs
in heaven and after the 1000-year reign of worthy "survivors" sitting on earthly thrones will God's will be done on earth *forever* ...
as it is in heaven"!

The Dispensations' Doctrine exalts those who
"overcome to the End" by recognizing they will "sit on earthly thrones to rule the nations"; but that Doctrine does not recognize the superior reward given to Trib-Martyrs who "love not their life unto death". Rev.12:11.

Only the Martyrs will "serve God in the Temple of heaven" 1000 years until that temple no longer exists in the New Jerusalem. The Nations will begin to enter the New Jerusalem thereafter with God and the Lamb its Temple!! Rev.21:22-26.

God's Purpose in the Millennium includes more than that of ruling with Christ on earth OR in
heaven. There is a deeper Purpose that Reformers do not even recognize and that many Dispies fail to include in what they "think the Bible is vague about; but which only takes place during this 1,000-year period".

But I hope we may agree on that deeper Purpose that God reveals in both the O T and N T.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[J. Jump]

Well where we will disagree is that I don't believe "worthy" Christians will rule from the physical earth. I believe that reign to be for the nation of Israel.

I believe that worthy Christians will rule from the heavens where Satan and his demons currently rule. I believe it is in Daniel that says the heavens do rule.

 

[Hope of Glory]

Yes, J. Jump, there is an earthly Kingom and a heavenly Kingdom, and I think most people overlook that fact.

The Bible is vague about the millennium, other than the fact that it will be glorious, but the Bible is even more vague on the rest of eternity.

 

[J. Jump]

Exactly our focus shouldn't be fixed on what's going to happen then as much as it should be on being found worthy to participate.

Unfortunately the vast majority of Christians, if they believe in the actual 1,000-year reign of Christ, believe that all Christians will be found worthy. Going to be some surprised folks in that day.

 

[Mel Miller]

J.Jump and Hope of Glory,

From what vantage point will Christ and Christians “rule nations with an iron rod”?

Quote from J.Jump:
______________________________________________
“Well where we will disagree is that I don't believe "worthy" Christians will rule from
the physical earth. I believe that reign to be for the nation of Israel”.
______________________________________________

This quote is a supremely vital point for discussion before we can understand God’s
full Purpose for the Millennium. You must lean toward the view that Rev.5:10 refers to the Saints in heaven “ruling the nations FROM HEAVEN for 1000 years”. The 12 disciples will “sit on thrones to judge the tribes of Israel”; but they will need the help of Church Saints to “judge the nations”. Matt.19:28.

“They (3rd pers. plural), a kingdom of priests, shall reign on the earth” (basileusousin
epi tηs gηs”). But reigning “epi” the earth
does not require us to be in heaven. The
meaning of this preposition can be “over or above” the earth; but it can also be “upon
the earth” as the KJV translates.

Daniel, Jesus, Paul and John show “all the Saints coming with Jesus” FROM heaven. Only the Martyrs return TO heaven where John sees them “sitting on thrones in judgment” even before they rise up to meet Him above the earth at the time of the “first resurrection”. Rev.20:4-5.

The key that requires only the Martyrs to return to heaven to “reign with Christ for 1000
years (20:4) and to serve God in the Temple of heaven where God will dwell among them” (7:15) is the promise given to ALL Church overcomers; but which requires them to be overcomers unto death through the entire Trib period! Rev.12:11. Read Rev.3:10-12.

Believers will be “kept from the Hour of Trial”. But there is a special “crown” for those who
“overcome unto death”. They will be “made Pillars in the Temple of God and shall NOT GUT of that Temple any more”. They will never leave the New Jerusalem. They have the “name of God, the name of New Jerusalem and the name of the Lamb”!!

Now, it is true this could arguably apply to all Believers who “overcome to the end”. However, while Rev.2:25-27 doesn’t require “overcomers” to rule FROM heaven, Rev.7:15-17 does require
the Martyrs "coming out of great tribulation" to
rule in heaven AFTER the great tribulation!!

We still have not seen the Big Picture as to why “overcoming Saints must rule on the earth” (not the Martyrs) so as to be in direct contact with the nations in fulfilling God’s Purpose for 1000 years.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

The Millenium (if there is one) will be populate by Christian martrs ONLY.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
JackRUS,

Quote:
________________________________________________
"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Remember?
------------------------------------------------

You have given a purpose for the Millennium. But
for God's will to be done, will it require the
action of the Saints to activate that "purpose"?
Why will "God's Will fail to be done on earth as
it is in heaven" when Satan is loosed for a short time to "deceive the nations"?

It seems God's will allows a final rebellion!!

Who are these Gentile nations that are "left"
when Christ comes? Why should Trib-Saints who survive be subjected to suffering loss of rain for their crops if they fail to come to worship God from year to year?

If all unbelievers are killed when Christ comes, why must Trib-Saints be the ones "left" and why should they have to rule themselves with a rod
of iron if they fail to worship God in Jerusalem each year?

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

You may have noticed that God allows sin. But Jesus will rule with a rod of iron as you have stated.

This period of rest for Israel will come before God re-creates the Earth where righteousness will reign forever.

 

[JackRUS]

Originally posted by StraightAndNarrow:
The Millenium (if there is one) will be populate by Christian martrs ONLY.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.

If Jesus and only the Trib marytrs are on the earth during the Millennium, who exactly will these saints reign over?

And explain please how they are deceived and destroyed by God when Satan is released at the end of the Millennium?

 

[Me4Him]

Mel, I "think" you're making a mistake In separating the Jews and christians during MK, "IN CHRIST" (saved) there is neither Jew or greek.

Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

I'm referring to those saved/resurrected "pre MK", not those who physically survive the trib.

When Adam sin, God told him he would "work" for his bread:

Ge 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

In the OT, the "priest" wasn't give "land" to farm, their "Meat/bread" came from offering to the temple, they served God and didn't have to "WORK".

The MK is known as "7th day of rest" from work, and as "priest" of God we won't have to "work" for our meat/bread either.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (MK)

 

[ituttut]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Friends,

What do you think is the goal of the Millennium?

The following statement deals with "Who will populate the Millennial Kingdom"?

"With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture who are alive at the second coming will populate the earth during
the Millennium".

But what is God's Goal in populating the
Kingdom after destroying all the wicked?

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

God's purpose is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ will have His reign on this earth. It looks to me the purpose of the millennium is the "marriage supper of the Lamb" in Revelation 19. It is not just humans invited, but the "fowls of the air" are invited. It is going to take a long time to clean up the mess after the slaughter.

As to populating in the millennium, I'll use what I posted to you just a few minutes ago under a different heading. "There were only eight souls that made the boat trip, and they were told, just as in the beginning to be fruitful and multiply. We don't know if there will be eight, or eight hundred, or eight thousand, but what ever the number they will be producing, living long lives. I'm sure there will be a goodly number by the end of the millennium."

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

If you want a response from me, give the QUOTE
to which you refer. Don't just make general
statements as below. Your arguments are too detailed to even consider without a QUOTE
to allow a direct exchange of viewpoints, i.e,:
______________________________________________
"Mel, I think you're making a mistake In separating the Jews and christians during MK, "IN CHRIST" (saved) there is neither Jew or greek".
______________________________________________

How did I separate the Jews and Christians
during the MK? Your post, as usual, has no
reference to the subject at hand, the Purpose for the Millennium; but only to your Pre-Trib, unestablished theories.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Me4Him,

If you want a response from me, give the QUOTE
to which you refer. Don't just make general
statements as below. Your arguments are too detailed to even consider without a QUOTE
to allow a direct exchange of viewpoints, i.e,:
______________________________________________
"Mel, I think you're making a mistake In separating the Jews and christians during MK, "IN CHRIST" (saved) there is neither Jew or greek".
______________________________________________

How did I separate the Jews and Christians
during the MK? Your post, as usual, has no
reference to the subject at hand, the Purpose for the Millennium; but only to your Pre-Trib, unestablished theories.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

Daniel, Jesus, Paul and John show “all the Saints coming with Jesus” FROM heaven. Only the Martyrs return TO heaven where John sees them “sitting on thrones in judgment” even before they rise up to meet Him above the earth at the time of the “first resurrection”. Rev.20:4-5.

The key that requires only the Martyrs to return to heaven to “reign with Christ for 1000
years (20:4) and to serve God in the Temple of heaven where God will dwell among them” (7:15) is the promise given to ALL Church overcomers; but which requires them to be overcomers unto death through the entire Trib period! Rev.12:11. Read Rev.3:10-12.

"ALL" those resurrected, (Jew/Greek) stay on earth for the MK, the promies to Israel of a "reigning Messiah" here on earth is what the Jews were expecting and will receive, even if they die prior to that "kingdom". (resurrected)

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

The following quote is pure theory because it
limits Kingdom rulership to the Jews:
_______________________________________________
"ALL" those resurrected, (Jew/Greek) stay on earth for the MK, the promies to Israel of a "reigning Messiah" here on earth is what the Jews were expecting and will receive, even if they die prior to that "kingdom". (resurrected)
_______________________________________________

The Apostles will "judge the 12 tribes"; but the
Trib-Surviving Saints will be among those that
"rule on earth over the nations with a rod of iron". Matt.19:28; Rev.2:25-27; Rev.5:10.

Once again, you take away from Scripture what is
terribly important for those "beheaded for
their testimony to Jesus and the word of God".
They will "serve God in heaven as Pillars in the Temple and reign with Christ in heaven where He will shepherd them for 1000 years". Rev.3:12; Rev.7:15-17; Rev.20:4.

Why are you so recalcitrant?

You again make a statement without Scripture
to support your heretical teaching that no
Gentile will be saved during the Millennium.

The Saints who "overcome to the end will rule on the earth" but those who are "beheaded for their testimony to Jesus will serve God as Pillars
in the Temple and the Lamb will shepherd them
in heaven where they will reign with Him for
1000 years". Rev.3:12; Rev.7:14-17; Rev.20:4.

Your understanding is distorted because you
claim that Gentiles will NOT be saved during the great tribulation and will therefore NOT be
among those "beheaded for Jesus NOR become Pillars in the Temple of Heaven for 1000 years as stated in Rev.3:12; Rev.7:14-17; Rev.20:4.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:


The Apostles will "judge the 12 tribes"; but the
Trib-Surviving Saints will be among those that
"rule on earth over the nations with a rod of iron". Matt.19:28; Rev.2:25-27; Rev.5:10.

Once again, you take away from Scripture what is
terribly important for those "beheaded for
their testimony to Jesus and the word of God".
They will "serve God in heaven as Pillars in the Temple and reign with Christ in heaven where He will shepherd them for 1000 years". Rev.3:12; Rev.7:15-17; Rev.20:4.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net [/QB]

"IN CHRIST" there are no Jews/Greek, there is no differences between the church saints and trib saints.

Ga 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

God doesn't distinguish between "Nationalities" among the saved.

One spending the 1000 years in heaven the other on earth is not scripture.

Those "Beheaded" (Israel) are the ones the "earth Kingdom" was promised too, dead/alive, they will experience it.

 

[Mel Miller]

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,
In your following statements you contradict yourself:
_________________________________________________
"IN CHRIST" there are no Jews/Greek, there is no differences between church saints and
trib saints.

"Those Beheaded (Israel) are the ones the `earth Kingdom' was promised too, dead/alive, they will experience it".
________________________________________________
In the first sentence you agree there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles in Christ.
In the 2nd you exclude Gentiles because you
deny they will be saved during the tribulation.
That is a bare-faced contradiction of your own
first statement.

Since there are neither Jews or Gentiles in
Christ, how can you be sure that only Jews are "beheaded" to reign on the earth? And at
the same time you contrdict Rev.3:12 and
Rev.7:15-17 and Rev.20:4.

Me4Him, you are not a worthy one to debate with as you change the truth that men from every nation will come “out of the great tribulation” and that those “beheaded for the testimony of Jesus will serve God as Pillars in the Temple
of heaven and reign with Christ as He leads
them in fountains of water for 1000 years; but those who overcome to the end will reign on the
earth". Rev.5:10; Rev.2:25-27.

This is the baldest kind of unbelief I have encountered among Christians on any website.

I will no longer exchange views with you for denying that Gentiles will be saved during
the great tribulation. You correctly state
that Jews and Gentiles are ONE in Christ. But
then deny that Gentiles are among those who are "beheaded" because you (falsely) claim
that only Israel (Jews) will “reign with
Christ on the earth”.

You have the Jews being restored as rulers of the earth but refuse to include Gentiles among those who “reign with Christ on the earth” as clearly taught in the Book of Revelation.

But more important to this thread, you also
deny one of God’s primary goals that require a literal period of 1000 years between Christ’s second coming and a New Heaven and Earth so
that those “beheaded for Christ will reign in heaven” prior to the New Jerusalem coming
down upon/over the earth.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
Me4Him,
In your following statements you contradict yourself:
_________________________________________________
"IN CHRIST" there are no Jews/Greek, there is no differences between church saints and
trib saints.

"Those Beheaded (Israel) are the ones the `earth Kingdom' was promised too, dead/alive, they will experience it".
________________________________________________
In the first sentence you agree there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles in Christ.
In the 2nd you exclude Gentiles because you
deny they will be saved during the tribulation.
That is a bare-faced contradiction of your own
first statement.

Since there are neither Jews or Gentiles in
Christ, how can you be sure that only Jews are "beheaded" to reign on the earth? And at
the same time you contrdict Rev.3:12 and
Rev.7:15-17 and Rev.20:4.

Me4Him, you are not a worthy one to debate with as you change the truth that men from every nation will come “out of the great tribulation” and that those “beheaded for the testimony of Jesus will serve God as Pillars in the Temple
of heaven and reign with Christ as He leads
them in fountains of water for 1000 years; but those who overcome to the end will reign on the
earth". Rev.5:10; Rev.2:25-27.

This is the baldest kind of unbelief I have encountered among Christians on any website.

I will no longer exchange views with you for denying that Gentiles will be saved during
the great tribulation. You correctly state
that Jews and Gentiles are ONE in Christ. But
then deny that Gentiles are among those who are "beheaded" because you (falsely) claim
that only Israel (Jews) will “reign with
Christ on the earth”.

You have the Jews being restored as rulers of the earth but refuse to include Gentiles among those who “reign with Christ on the earth” as clearly taught in the Book of Revelation.

But more important to this thread, you also
deny one of God’s primary goals that require a literal period of 1000 years between Christ’s second coming and a New Heaven and Earth so
that those “beheaded for Christ will reign in heaven” prior to the New Jerusalem coming
down upon/over the earth.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

The Jews don't believe in Jesus, they are not rapture, pre trib, during the trib some believe, they become "Christians", when both the church and those who are saved during the trib, return, they are "ONE", not "two.

 

[Mel Miller]

Me4Him,

You actually admit that saved Jews and Gentiles will be ONE, not two, during the Millennium.
Quote:
________________________________________________
The Jews don't believe in Jesus, they are not rapture, pre trib, during the trib some believe, they become "Christians", when both the church and those who are saved during the trib, return, they are "ONE", not "two".
________________________________________________

If saved Jews and Gentiles are ONE before the
tribulation, as well as during the Millennium
why do you not believe they will be ONE during
the great tribulation?????????????????????????

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:


If saved Jews and Gentiles are ONE before the
tribulation, as well as during the Millennium
why do you not believe they will be ONE during
the great tribulation?????????????????????????

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

Because it requires "Two" to make "two", and "one" is gone during the trib, the church.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by Mel Miller:
J. Jump,

Good! Now we are getting to the heart of the
question. Some Dispies teach that "all those
who take the mark of the Beast" will perish.

Many Dispies teach that only Trib-Saints who
survive to the end will be "left" on earth to
populate the Kingdom.

Most Dispies I have talked with claim that
these Trib-Saints will "populate the kingdom"
because no unbelievers will be "kept alive"
when Christ appears with All the Saints".

Since you agree there will be Gentile peoples
left on earth when Christ comes with "all the
Saints", we can see there must be a Purpose
for these nations to continue to exist for 1000
years. That Purpose does not require surviving
Trib-Saints to remain in their mortal bodies to
populate the Kingdom.

What specifically is God's Purpose relative to
Gentile nations? What is His Purpose for the Jews? What is His Purpose for Trib-Martyrs??

And when will it be true that "God's will shall
be done on earth as it is in heaven"?

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,