following-Him
Active Member
I have just left a church where a woman was allowed to lead the sevice (badly) and preside over the Lord's Supper (badly). Am I wrong and am I being intollerant? Should I be prepared to move with the times?
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What is the role of women in the Church?
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following-Him
Active Member
I think I was right to leave. I have explained my views to the pastor and told him I was not prepared to compromise my faith and contribute to the domestication and dilution of the Gospel.
Scripture clearly shows us that women are not to be in this position. But how has this diluted the gospel?
DiamondLady
New Member
You used the word "badly" twice. What made it bad in your view? What was the purpose of her leading the service and presiding at the Lord's Supper.
Our Church strongly believes that Pastoral oversight is given to Men only; but we will have women read scripture in services, pray, Give her testimony of her last 50 years in this church (that was great), and even take a whole sunday night to report on her trip to Israel, even making connections to Biblical references and lessons...but it is all done with the understanding that these women are not Elders/Overseeers and that they do these things under the shepherding of the Pastors.
For an alternate view that seems somewhat in the middle between (No women & Women can equally be Pastors)...check out this position paper by the (huge) gateway church in Texas:
http://gatewaypeople.com/sites/all/files/pdf/position_papers/Role%20of%20Women%20in%20Ministry.pdf
They have women pastors in various areas such as discipleship, Music ministry, etc... but say that they believe that the postions that exercise rule and oversight over the whole church (Senior Pastors & Executive Pastors). It seems they are separating the office of "pastor" from that of "overseer/Elder". Most see those as different names of the same office...but they do have an interesting unique spin on things, and it is well worth your reading...It isn't very long.
For an alternate view that seems somewhat in the middle between (No women & Women can equally be Pastors)...check out this position paper by the (huge) gateway church in Texas:
http://gatewaypeople.com/sites/all/files/pdf/position_papers/Role%20of%20Women%20in%20Ministry.pdf
They have women pastors in various areas such as discipleship, Music ministry, etc... but say that they believe that the postions that exercise rule and oversight over the whole church (Senior Pastors & Executive Pastors). It seems they are separating the office of "pastor" from that of "overseer/Elder". Most see those as different names of the same office...but they do have an interesting unique spin on things, and it is well worth your reading...It isn't very long.
Alive in Christ
New Member
The poor woman probably did badly because she feared being hit with a lightning bolt from on high that all of the ones opposed probably hoped would happen.
Its a crying shame that after so many decades and decades and decades and decades this neanderthal mentality STILL exists regarding Gods fully capable women. They are STILL being told...."You just stay in your place, we men are in charge. (and dont you forget it.)
And yet, the conservative evangelical church fully acknowleges that slavery is taught in the scriptures because it was a cultural issue, and we have now done the right thing and done away with it.
And yet...they turn a blind eye to the scriptures and continue to perpetuate this utterly ridiculous "stay in your place" attitude towards our women.
God help us.
Its a crying shame that after so many decades and decades and decades and decades this neanderthal mentality STILL exists regarding Gods fully capable women. They are STILL being told...."You just stay in your place, we men are in charge. (and dont you forget it.)
And yet, the conservative evangelical church fully acknowleges that slavery is taught in the scriptures because it was a cultural issue, and we have now done the right thing and done away with it.
And yet...they turn a blind eye to the scriptures and continue to perpetuate this utterly ridiculous "stay in your place" attitude towards our women.
God help us.
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Was she the pastor? Did she have the permission of the pastor? Compare Romans 16:1
I knew a man who was a deacon in a large fundamentalist Baptist church who helped serve communion for years. How do I know that one might ask? His testimony is that he became a believer after being a deacon for many years.
I have a friend whose wife told me that she became a believer when her husband was the pastor at the time gave the invitation and she came forward. Her dad was an evangelist. Imagine that happening! At first I thought she was kidding and her husband said that it actually happened.
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following-Him
Active Member
The person in question did badly in my opinion because she focussed too much on herself and seemed to think that she was there to entertain the congregation rather than bring the word of God.
In presiding over the Lord's Supper, there was no teaching or explanation of what was happening. I dread to think what impression she might have given to an unsaved person or one new to the faith.
In presiding over the Lord's Supper, there was no teaching or explanation of what was happening. I dread to think what impression she might have given to an unsaved person or one new to the faith.
following-Him
Active Member
No. She was not the pastor. I wouldn't be attending a church with a female pastor. I suppose she must have had the permission of the pastor.
I would have asked the specific reason why a woman did this, like was it a situation where no men were present or could physically do it?
According to scripture, women are not to teach or usurp authority over the men in the church setting. This would mean serving as pastor or teaching a class with men in it. Leading the singing, reading scripture, giving a testimony, or making announcements, in my opinion, are not usurping authority over the men. Technically, I'd be very uncomfortable with a woman leading communion, as in my church, it's normal for the pastor to serve communion.
I think it would depend on the church's beliefs about women "usurping authority" or "keeping silence" in the church.
According to scripture, women are not to teach or usurp authority over the men in the church setting. This would mean serving as pastor or teaching a class with men in it. Leading the singing, reading scripture, giving a testimony, or making announcements, in my opinion, are not usurping authority over the men. Technically, I'd be very uncomfortable with a woman leading communion, as in my church, it's normal for the pastor to serve communion.
I think it would depend on the church's beliefs about women "usurping authority" or "keeping silence" in the church.
Now that would bother me, too.
There are men who are old who do the same thing. When I look back on my own life I see times when I had the wrong focus and attitude. Thankfully the people were gracious to me. Church is not about me but about Him. It is amazing when we focus on God how little we see of others.
Turn Your Eyes upon Jesus
- O soul, are you weary and troubled?
No light in the darkness you see?
There’s light for a look at the Savior,
And life more abundant and free!- Refrain:
Turn your eyes upon Jesus,
Look full in His wonderful face,
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim,
In the light of His glory and grace.
- Refrain:
- Through death into life everlasting
He passed, and we follow Him there;
O’er us sin no more hath dominion—
For more than conqu’rors we are! - His Word shall not fail you—He promised;
Believe Him, and all will be well:
Then go to a world that is dying,
His perfect salvation to tell!
This weekend, we will have women presiding over the Lord's Supper but it will be on the women's retreat so it will be only women present. It will be the pastors' wives who preside over it - the women who had hands laid on them along with their husbands when their husbands were ordained. It will be a special time. That is the ONLY time we have women preside over the LS. 
In every Baptist church I have attended the role of women includes this:
If anyone dares to take this away from our women I will leave. I consider this a test of fellowship.
:smilewinkgrin:
Last night we had a fellowship for all of the worship teams, pastors and deacons - and all assundry families and support people too. That was over 100 people. It was the MEN who cooked for us!! Chili, rice, baked beans and corn bread. It was the women who demanded that they also provide salad as a side. LOL
Oh my! Well....at least they cooked man food. But I must question how "baptistic" it was if there were no casseroles.
What's the rest of the story?
For your first point, I've seen that happen in our church when there's a man holding the microphone. IMHO, in those cases, it's the individual himself or herself that's the "blame" and not the gender of the person.
For your second point, my first reaction is that the pastor should have either done the "teaching"/"explaination" himself or instructed her on exactly what to say/do. If he didn't and let her wing it, he may have been setting her up for a fall. OTOH, if he did and she didn't follow instructions, the "blame" falls directly upon her.
Another point, FWIW. Applies equally to men and women when they first pick up a microphone. They are nervous and have many different ways to try to cover that. Sometimes "nerves" will cause a person to say or do things they later regret when they have time to reflect.
Did your pastor introduce her and give a reason why she was in that position that day? Sometimes with the Annie Armstrong & Lottie Moon offerings, our services are changed in various ways to recognize these missions. If women take the "lead" during these services, they are actually "assisting" our pastor to recognize this aspect of our ministries.
Or, did your pastor let her take the pulpit without any explaination?
Regardless, there seems to be "more to the story" to be told. A single service (if I understand correctly) caused you the leave the church??? How long have you been attending there? Did the pastor indicate that this is a permanent change in doctrine?
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