What Is This Passage Talking About?

[Brother Bob]

Then perhaps you should read what Peter said

Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

My Bible teaches me that is still to come under the Sixth Seal.

 

[Gershom]

No way! I am saying it was ALL fulfilled at Pentecost! There can be similar happenings after Pentecost that were not specific fulfillments of that prophecy.

Do you believe that signs follow them who believe as Jesus said in Mark 16?

BTW, Your grandfather was a good man. God bless you for continuing in the work.

 

[Brother Bob]

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Originally Posted by John of Japan
No way! I am saying it was ALL fulfilled at Pentecost! There can be similar happenings after Pentecost that were not specific fulfillments of that prophecy.

You said they were all fulfilled except the one of Act 2:20 highlighted in red which you said still is going on well that is what is called "cherry picking".

In truth they all are still going on or yet to come!!!

 

[Brother Bob]

Isaiah, chapter 2
"2": And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

You never said if all nations are still flowing into the Lord's house?

Mark 16
16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17: And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18: They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19: So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20: And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Yes and please answer the above given by GerShom.

 

[John of Japan]

Do you believe that signs follow them who believe as Jesus said in Mark 16?

BTW, Your grandfather was a good man. God bless you for continuing in the work.

I believe that the miracles in Mark 16 were signs for the purpose of establishing the church. I do believe that we can see miracles today by answer to prayer.

Thanks for the good word about Grandad. Hopefully I'm getting my feet into even just a few of his footprints.

 

[Brother Bob]

You can start by answering my question.

I thought Jesus established the Church?


Romans, chapter 15

"18": For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

"19": Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

 

[John of Japan]

You said they were all fulfilled except the one of Act 2:20 highlighted in red which you said still is going on well that is what is called "cherry picking".

In truth they all are still going on or yet to come!!!

No sir, I did NOT say this. (Why do people on this thread insist on attributing to me things I never said??? ) What I said was that the verse was fulfilled in Acts 2, but Paul quoted it in Romans by application. I'm sure that being a preacher of many years of experience you understand the difference between interpretation and application, right?

 

[John of Japan]

You never said if all nations are still flowing into the Lord's house?

I don't see where this passage has anything to do with Acts 2. Peter didn't quote it.

 

[Brother Bob]

Why you so bitter? Are you in a bind?

 

[Brother Bob]

You the one who said when it happend it was fulfilled and all nations have already flowed into it and still are so that is what it has to do with what Peter said unless it makes a difference if someone else said it?

He simply said Joel 2 was fulfilled.

You for sure said this but never have provided Scripture for it.

 

[John of Japan]

Why you so bitter? Are you in a bind?

I beg your pardon? I'm sorry if I gave the impression I'm bitter. Was it the little angry face that gave that impression? I thought I was just responding to the posts. I'm not bitter at anyone, least of all you, Brother Bob! I'm rejoicing in the Lord!:wavey:

 

[Brother Bob]

That is not how prophecy works! Tell me one other prophecy that was fulfilled more than once.

Your quote that says how a prophecy if fulfilled and why Isaaih has to do with Peter.

we are not saying it was fulfilled more than once. we are saying that was the beginning of the fulfillment.

 

[John of Japan]

You can start by answering my question.

I thought Jesus established the Church?


Romans, chapter 15

"18": For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

"19": Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.

Of course Jesus established the church--through His apostles!

Folks, I've really been enjoying the byplay here, but I'm out of time. I am in the middle of a very busy day here in Japan, and have to bow out for now.

God bless.

 

[Brother Bob]

Upon this "Rock" I build My Church.

 

[Gershom]

I believe that the miracles in Mark 16 were signs for the purpose of establishing the church. I do believe that we can see miracles today by answer to prayer.

Thanks for the good word about Grandad. Hopefully I'm getting my feet into even just a few of his footprints.

But Jesus doesn't give such an explanation. He simply says that these signs will follow believers.

I would say that Joel 2 speaks of prophetic signs that lead to or happen before the Day of the Lord. Has the Day of the Lord come? If not, it would not be unusual for these things to be still occuring. Like when Jesus spoke of earthquakes and wars and rumors of wars. These things are still taking place as they lead to the ultimate fulfillment of when Jesus returns.

 

[LeBuick]

Also vision of Paul and vision of Ananias and the four daughter Prophesying is after Penecost and you did not answer that either? YOu don't have one Scripture where the Prophesying ended.

Just curious Bro Bob, what would be your interpretation of Mat 11:13? "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

I am of the understanding there is no longer a need to propehsy since the word became flesh and dwelt among us??? We are not really foretelling of the coming kingdom or the last days, we have them written and we believe.

 

[Brother Bob]

LeBuick;
The Law and the Prophets were until John and since then The Kingdom of Heaven is being preached.

I do differ with this Scripture with most of my brethren for they believe that means the Law and Prophets stopped then but I don't.

I believe The Law and Prophets is what they had but now we not only have the Law and The Prophets but we have Christ.

I hear brethren preach about the Prophets all the time and their prophseys but some want to leave the Commandments out of it (Law) I find Jesus Himself preaching The Law and The Prophets and come and follow me. It says He came to fulfill those things spoken of Him in the books of:

Luke, chapter 24

Chapter
Book


"44": And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

It was written that the Deliverer would come. Even He said not one jot or tittle shall pass until heaven and earth pass.

Matthew, chapter 5

Chapter
Book


"18": For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

 

[LeBuick]

LeBuick;
The Law and the Prophets were until John and since then The Kingdom of Heaven is being preached.

I do differ with this Scripture with most of my brethren for they believe that means the Law and Prophets stopped then but I don't.

I believe The Law and Prophets is what they had but now we not only have the Law and The Prophets but we have Christ.

I hear brethren preach about the Prophets all the time and their prophseys but some want to leave the Commandments out of it (Law) I find Jesus Himself preaching The Law and The Prophets and come and follow me. It says He came to fulfill those things spoken of Him in the books of:

Luke, chapter 24

Chapter
Book


"44": And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

It was written that the Deliverer would come. Even He said not one jot or tittle shall pass until heaven and earth pass.

Matthew, chapter 5

Chapter
Book


"18": For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

I'm not completely following your argument, the verse says, "shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled". Is this not the law that Christ fulfilled?

As for the law, yes we still follow the law but we are no longer bound by the law as our means of salvation. This is because there is no penalty to those who are in Christ Jesus. He has paid the proce for our transgressions against the law. This says we don't follow the law in order to be saved, we follow the law because we are saved.

Then Jesus simplified it for his people;
Mat
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jn
[34] A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[35] By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


Can you detail what further need we have for prophesy or prophets?

 

[Brother Bob]

Preaching is prophesying so you think we don't need preachers?

I'm not completely following your argument, the verse says, "shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled". Is this not the law that Christ fulfilled?

He is plainly telling us that he did not come to fulfill or do away with the Law of the Commandments and the two He gave that you quoted. It is impossible to keep those two without keeping the rest. The law He came to fulfill is the sacrificial offering and Common Law under Moses, not the Law of the Commandments.
No, the Law does not give eternal Life and never did but reveals sin as sin. Yea I would of not known sin except the Commandment saith, "thou shalt not commit adultery".
Luke, chapter 24

Chapter
Book


"44": And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

He fulfilled the things written concerning Him.

Can you detail what further need we have for prophesy or prophets?

Go ye into the whole world and preach the Gospel to every creature and He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.


Main Entry: proph·e·cy
1 : an inspired utterance of a prophet
2 : the function or vocation of a prophet; specifically : the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose
3 : a prediction of something to come

example: Flee the wrath of God which is to come
Jesus is coming back
If you die in your sin where I am you can not come
etc.

 

[Grasshopper]

So, are you saying that no one else will be saved that it stopped at the day of Penecost or are "all nations still flowing into it" Also, are you saying the New Covenant is over with? What kind of doctrine is that?

Neither one of you has supplied where Peter said it was "fulfilled"?

Also vision of Paul and vision of Ananias and the four daughter Prophesying is after Penecost and you did not answer that either? YOu don't have one Scripture where the Prophesying ended.

Also, you admit that whosoever call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved is still happening so you are cherry picking as Cheney.

So, are you saying that no one else will be saved that it stopped at the day of Penecost

No

or are "all nations still flowing into it"

Yes

Also, are you saying the New Covenant is over with?

No

What kind of doctrine is that?

Sounds like dispensationalism which says one day the New Covenant ends and there will be a return to Temple rituals. But the Bible says:

Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Neither one of you has supplied where Peter said it was "fulfilled"?

When Peter says “This is that” what do you suppose he means? I do not believe it was all fulfilled on Pentecost but would be fulfilled before the "last days" ended.

Also vision of Paul and vision of Ananias and the four daughter Prophesying is after Penecost and you did not answer that either? YOu don't have one Scripture where the Prophesying ended.

Those visions were a last days event. The last days did not end at Pentecost.
1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Also, you admit that whosoever call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved is still happening so you are cherry picking as Cheney.

The New Covenant by which men can call upon the name of the Lord and be saved was established in the “last days”.

Heb 12:22 But you have come to MountZion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,