What Is This Passage Talking About?

[Brother Bob]

Oh, I know the difference between me and the Apostles Mel; but that don't make it not to be "prophesying", and that is what the Scripture is talking about. It was not I but the Scripture that says "I will pour my Spirit out on all flesh and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy", and to tell of the second coming of Jesus and the coming of the wrath of God is to "prophesy".

Yes, I do think you are trying to pick on me but I don't mind, pick away. I can defend myself.

The verb "prophesy" means "to speak before" (from Greek pro, before, and phemi, to speak). The gift includes both the idea of foretelling and forthtelling, predicting the future and preaching. A prophet was God's mouthpiece:

I only spoke what the Scripture says, nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Mel Miller]

What is Joel talking about?

Bro Bob,

You agree to the difference between "foretelling and forthtelling"!
But you have not applied that difference to the matter of preaching about the second coming of Christ. You should call that preaching a "forthtelling; not a foretelling" after your admission regarding the difference!!

This difference is important because Marcia is concerned about Joel's prophecy having a "double-lens" reference to the second coming.
Surely you agree other OT prophecies include references to both advents.

I believe that, during the great tribulation and under the prophesying of the Two Prophets, John will reveal the "seven thunders" that the Mighty Angel and voice from heaven told him in unison that John must still reveal.

The evidence is strong that John will be one of the Two Witnesses. Who
but he, for instance, could better inform the Jews of the impending wrath
coming on the last day SO THAT seven classes of men will know and acknowdge that the 12-Hour "DAY of the LAMB'S wrath has come"??? :wavey:

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Bob]

I never said which but quoted the Scripture that it would happen. It is happening and will still happen until the Lord leaves Heaven. When we see Him in the clouds of Glory. I think Marcia is pretty well informed and will study this and probably come up with the right answer. You seem to think I was talking about some knew revelation and somewhere in this thread I did explain that I was speaking of the prophesy of forthtelling, anyway it seems to be very clear now.

 

[LeBuick]

The evidence is strong that John will be one of the Two Witnesses. Who but he, for instance, could better inform the Jews of the impending wrath coming on the last day SO THAT seven classes of men will know and acknowdge that the 12-Hour "DAY of the LAMB'S wrath has come"???

What evidence do you have that John is one of the two witnesses? Can you point me to said evidence?

 

[Brother Bob]

Marcia;
This passage, Joel 2.28-29, comes up on various threads from time to time, but I've never seen a good explanation for it.

If you've studied this passage before, what do you think it is saying or not saying? I see people use it to support all kinds of stuff.

Quote:

"It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
"Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Joel 2.28-29

Marcia;
Mel said I left you in the dark so I will try and explain the Scripture of Joel.
First there are two kinds of prophecies and one is "foretelling and the other is forthtelling."
Foretelling is to tell of a "revelation" or a "divine" happening to take place in the future.
Forthtelling is to tell (preaching or telling) what is going to take place in the future according to that which has already been taught and given to us such as the Scriptures.

In the Scripture of Joel when God said He would pour His Spirit out on all flesh He was talking about forthtelling, people like you and I who are telling the world what is going to take place in the future according to the Scripture. The resurrection, The second coming of Christ, The eternal Heaven, etc.

I did not mean to leave you in doubt of what I believe and was trying to tell. I still don't know if you will accept my explanation of the Scripture of Joel but it is what I have always believed for years and years.

 

[Marcia]

Marcia;
You are saying it includes the telling of the second coming of Christ to redeem His people are you not?

Well, that's true - that's a prophecy of the future in the NT but it's given by a writer of a NT book; I don't think the gift of prophecy as one of the gifts in the NT is to tell the future.

 

[Brother Bob]

It is a "forthtelling prophecy". To prophecy of that which is already given by Scripture of the future. This world is full of people who don't read or study the Bible that is why He said go unto the whole world and preach the Gospel, which is to prophesy.

 

[Mel Miller]

Meaning of Joel

My Dear Friends Bob and LeBuick and Marcia,

Bob, I must once again disagree with your analysis.
Quote:
_________________________________________________________________
I don't think the gift of prophecy as one of the gifts in the NT is to tell the future ... He said: "Go unto the whole world and preach the Gospel", which is to prophesy.
_________________________________________________________________

To "prophesy" can mean either "foretelling OR forthtelling". You see Joel's
*prophecy* as a "forthtelling" BUT it is actually a "foretelling" of what would occur at Pentecost and also, as Marcia suggests, will occur during the Endtime. By "endtime" I refer to the 1260 days of the Two Prophets.

That's why I referred to John as one of the Two Prophets. As "prophets
they will prophesy (to within 3 1/2 days) of the 7th Trumpet which is "about to sound God's wrath has come" after the armies are gathered to Armageddon and (the chronos-time of 1260 days) is no longer" subject to a countdown. The Endtime will END "in the days the 7th trumpets is about to sound ... in the days after the great tribulation ... on one of the 3 1/2 days during which John and Elijah remain dead on a street of Jerusalem!!
Rev.10:6-7; Rev.11:6-7; Mark 13:24; Matt.24:29.

Marcia, it is during these 1260 days that Joel's propecy will be fulfilled in a way that dwarfs the fulfillment at Pentecost. The Two Prophets (Witnesses) will foster the "sayings and dreams" of the saints by the revelations these Two make. For instance, the promised revelation concerning the "seven thunders" of the Little Scroll that was "sweet to John's taste and bitter to his stomach". Rev.10.

LeBuick, my chapter on the *Apostle John* receives thousands of "hits" every month ... more than any other topic on my website. Please read it first and I will then ask for your questions or objections.

Note it is "lastday.net"; not "lastdays.net". My basic premise is that the EVENTS of the "Day of God's and the Lamb's wrath" (and therefore Seal Six) are confined to a 12-Hour Solar Day! On that single day one hundred verses in the Book of Revelation are to be fulfilled! See my topic at the top left column called "CENTERPIECE".

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Bob]

To "prophesy" can mean either "foretelling OR forthtelling". You see Joel's
*prophecy* as a "forthtelling" BUT it is actually a "foretelling" of what would occur at Pentecost and also, as Marcia suggests, will occur during the Endtime. By "endtime" I refer to the 1260 days of the Two Prophets.

It was a "foretelling prophecy for Joel" for he was revealing something to take place in the future but for me it is a "forthtelling prophecy" of something to take place until the end of time.

You said you knew what "foretelling and forthtelling prophecy is"?

I ask you is preaching of the scripture of things yet to come a "forthtelling prophecy"?

 

[Brother Bob]

2 Peter, chapter 1
20: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

 

[Brother Bob]

Psalms, psalm 34
18: The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.

con·trite 1 :
grieving and penitent(or expressing humble or regretful pain or sorrow for sins or offenses ) for sin or shortcoming

 

[Mel Miller]

Meaning of Joel's prophecy

Bro Bob,

Quote:
________________________________________________________________
For me it (Joel's prophecy) is a "forthtelling prophecy" of something to take place until the end of time.
________________________________________________________________

At last I think Marcia and I can see why there is such confusion in your answer to her question. You are applying the term "last days" to the entire period of Church history AS WELL AS to the DAY of Pentecost and the Day Christ appears specifically. But the Day of the Lord is a single 12-Hour Day just as Pentecost was a single 12-Hour-Day!

The second part of Peter's quotation includes what will happen at the single DAY of destruction/deliverance on which Christ comes for and with "all the Saints". There is a gap of nearly 2000 years between the first and
second parts of the quotation regarding the "last days".

However, the first part regarding the "pouring out of the Spirit on all flesh and the prophesying and dreams" will be repeated "BEFORE" the great and glorious (single 12-Hour) DAY of the Lord in preparation for that 12-Hour DAY and the SIGNS in the sun, moon and stars!

When we apply what happens "BEFORE" the events of that 12-Hour-Day, we must include the "prophesysing" of the Two Witnesses over the period of 1260 days which include the "revelation of the seven thunders" about which the Mighty Angel and voice from heaven (in unison) told John that he "must prophesy again before nations, kindreds, tongues and kings".
Only John knows the content of those seven thunders. Rev.10; Dan.12.

That period of 1260 days is called the "NOW of God's Kingdom Power and the Authority of His Christ" which is limited to 3 1/2 times (1290 days cut short to 1260 days) of great tribulation. Rev.12:10-11; Dan.12:10-11.

When their 1260 day task is "finished" (Rev.10:6-7; Rev.11:6-7), the Saints will "know" that Christ's second coming in Person will occur within the next 3 1/2 days; but only the Father knows on which of those 3-4 days the last martyr will be killed. On that unknown LASTDAY, the 100 verses that fulfill the second part of Joel's/Peter's prophecy will occur between noon and twilight. Amos 8:9; Zech.14:5-7.

Zechariah, Paul, Jesus and Revelation agree that Christ will appear and the Hour of Trial will occur on that SAME 12-Hour-Day of God's and the Lamb's wrath! Jesus will be crowned King (AT the first sound of the 7th Trumpet; Rev.11:15-17); will "raise up every/all believer(s) and gather the elect upon the 4 winds from the uttermost part of earth to the uttermost part of heaven (AT the second sound of the that Last Trump; John 6:38-40; I Thess.4:13-17; Mark 13:27) and will send the angels to gather these elect out of the same 4 winds unto Jesus (AT a third sound of the Last Trump; Matt.24:31; Rev.11:18; 2 Thess.2:1)! There is no other Trumpet after Rev.11:18 and Matt.24:31. The 7th Trumpet is the "Last Trump"!

Bob, the prophecies above involve FORETELLING and FORTHTELLING. But you need to recognize the SIGNS of the SINGULAR 12-Hour-Day of Christ's literal Presence (just as did the signs in the case of the Presence of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost) take place moments "BEFORE the great and awesome Day of the Lord".

The Church has been mislead into thinking the Day of the Lord is a 7-Year period of time. The Great Tribulation is NOT a time of God's wrath.
God's Wrath is confined to the "Hour of Trial" on the Day Christ appears!
Believers are not appointed to the Hour of God's wrath which begins at the first sounding of the 7th Trumpet. Rev.3:10-11. :wavey:

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Bob]

Marcia can speak for herself but I will try and answer you.

I certainly believe that the saved will see the tribulations but not the wrath if that is what you are saying. I believe at the end of the tribulations the church will be redeemed from the earth.
Yes, I do believe we are living in the last days and it is the generation of Jesus Christ.

You didn't answer if you believe that forthtelling prophesy is preaching?

 

[Mel Miller]

Bro Bob,

You are still insisting that to preach what is distinctly a "foretelling" of future events is a legitimate answer to Marcia's question. The frist part of Joel's prophecy will again be fulfilled during the great tribulation and the second part will be fulfilled beginning with the Signs of the Day Christ comes!!

That is "foretelling". You do indeed fulfill the "forthtelling". But that has nothing to do with Marcia's question about its meaning at the Endtime.
You want the prophecy to apply to the entire history of the Church and
that, my friend, is another question as I see it!!

I repeat:

Bob, the prophecies above involve FORETELLING and FORTHTELLING. But you need to recognize the SIGNS of the SINGULAR 12-Hour-Day of Christ's literal Presence (just as did the signs in the case of the Presence of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost) will take place moments "BEFORE the great and awesome 12-Hour-Day of the Lord". :wavey:

Mel www.lastday.net

 

[Brother Bob]

You sir, have no way of knowing whatsoever that it did not mean to preach and testify prophesies that Joel spoke of when He said in the last days.


Acts, chapter 2
17": And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

"18": And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

He also said, on my servants and handmaidens I will pour out in those days my Spirit. The last days had to include the "day of Penecost", so it was then and is now and is to come. Handmaidens? were there any women there on the day of penecost?

You do indeed fulfill the "forthtelling

Its like pulling teeth to get you to admit that forthtelling prophecies is preaching.

 

[IveyLeaguer]

"It will come about after this
That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and daughters will prophesy,
Your old men will dream dreams,
Your young men will see visions.
"Even on the male and female servants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days.
Joel 2.28-29

Haven't studied it out but I think it describes the distinguishing feature of the 'church age', the outpouring and indwelling of the Holy Spirit in regenerate believers. I would say the prophecy WAS fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost, IS BEING fulfilled as we speak, and WILL BE fulfilled until "those days" are completed.

:Fish:

 

[Brother Bob]

Amen Iveyleaguer; You got it!

 

[Mel Miller]

What is Joel talking about?

IveyLeaguer,

We must consider the answer in light of Peter's quotation at Pentecost. IMO, Peter quoted more than what Marcia
quoted in the opening post and therefore more than what was fulfilled at Pentecost.

The prophesying begun at Pentecost will indeed continue to the last day of this age. But the final signs of that DAY, IMO, anticipate events of the single 12-Hour-Day on which 100 verses in Revelation will be fulfilled.

The signs begin events of the Day of God's wrath at Seal 6!
Its Signs and Events begin with the Decree: "It is Done"!
Christ will be crowned on that Day at the 7th Trumpet!
That Trumpet is the Last Trump and will sound 3 times!

Mel Miller www.lastday.net :wavey:

 

[Brother Bob]

Mel;
Why in the world would you not say that when we were having our discussion. I kept trying to get you to agree it started and was continuing until the end but you never would give me a clear direct answer. I don't understand? I know we differed on other things but looks like we agreed on this one. Looks like we could of gotten along better if you would of said you agreed on this part.:laugh:

 

[Mel Miller]

What does Joel Mean?

Bob,

You wonder why I never made it clear that we agreed.

I wish to discover the reason for misunderstandings:

On June 24 at 2:23 I wrote:
This whole discussion has been confusing by failing to distinguish between the "forthtelling and foretelling" aspects of prophecy.

At 3:05 I wrote:
You agree to the difference between "foretelling and forthtelling"! But you have not applied that difference to the matter of preaching the second coming of Christ.

Here I meant "preaching" is more than mere forthtelling.

On June 25 at 4:18 I wrote:
You see Joel's *prophecy* as a "forthtelling" BUT it is actually a "foretelling" of what would occur at Pentecost and also, as Marcia suggests, will occur during the Endtime. By "endtime" I refer to the 1260 days of the Two Prophets.

Was my statement confusing at this point? Should I have written that Joel was ALSO "foretelling" instead of ACTUALLY "foretelling"?

On June 26 at 6 AM I quoted your reference to “forthtelling”; but not to “foretelling”:
You wrote:
For me Joel's prophecy is a "forthtelling prophecy" of something to take place until the end of time....

Again, I was looking for the word "foretelling"!

At 6:57 AM I wrote:
You are still insisting that to "preach" what is distinctly a "foretelling" of future events is a legitimate answer to Marcia's question.

I was seeking your agreement also on the "foretelling"
as well as the "preaching" aspect (foretelling as well as forthtelling to which we had agreed all along)!

Finally, at 11:30 today you show agreement with me:
I Wrote:
We must consider the answer in light of Peter's quotation at Pentecost. IMO, Peter quoted more than what Marcia
quoted in the opening post and therefore more than what was fulfilled at Pentecost...

Really, my concern all along has been that Joel primarily
has in mind the SIGNS of the great and awesome Day that
Christ comes in glory and great power. The signs leading up to that Day, including the prophesying (forthtelling), is only part of the total picture of Prophecy.

Mel www.lastday.net :wavey: