What is wrong with Calvinism

GLC

ANYONE who deliberately distorts the word of God and presents an UNtruth to a church audience or reader of his book is a heretic and teaching a lie. Paul himself said, if I or an angel comes to you and preaches any other gospel than what I told you LET HIM BE ACCURSED. Paul wrote Christ IS the Savior of ALL MEN, especially those that believe.I Tim 4:10. Calvinists preach and teach a FALSE GOSPEL.

 

Anyone can spout accusations. Showing that your accusations are right is more difficult. You could start by showing where my little summary of Calvinism is a false gospel:

 

russell55

I just did. Please RE-read my post above.

 

You quoted 1 Timothy 4:10:

What Calvinist denies this?

 

russell55

ALL Calvinists deny I Tom 4:10. Calvinists believe Christ only died for THE ELECT. So to them, Christ is not the true Savior of all men.

 

No, they don't.

No, not quite.

Calvinists believe that Christ death provides a means by which anyone who believes will be saved. However, they acknowledge, as it says in 1 Timothy 4:10 (the verse you quoted), that he is not the Saviour of all people in the same sense. He is the Saviour especially of believers. Christ's death has particular intent and particular application toward the elect (or toward believers.)

You don't deny that Christ is the Savior of believers in a way that he is not the Saviour of every person who has ever lived, do you?

 

I don't agree with Calvinism but I don't view Calvinists as a "cult". That's absurd! Are you denying that Edwards & Spurgeon were saved and that they weren't mightily used of God? Of course they were.
1. Calvinists don't annoy me as much as "hyper calvinists"
Spurgeon's philosophy is that there is election and only God knows who will be saved; since it's impossible to know who's elected or not then we are to preach to all men.

I don't agree with that statement 100%, but however, that's not dangerous to Christianity and we can see the impact Spurgeon made for Christ.

The calvinism (John Calvin/John Knox teaching) that teaches that regeneration occurs before faith is uttermost heresy!

Don't ever think, "I won't witness, if God wants him/her saved then he/she will be saved".

God wants all men/women saved!

 

russell55

Calvinists DO deny Christ is the Savior of the world or of all men. They believe Christ is the Savior of ONLY the elect. Why do they believe this? Because they believe Christ is NOT the potential Savior of all men.John 3:17,4:42,6:51,12:47. Ask them if Christ died so that ALL MEN could be saved? There answer will be no. Ask them if Christ tasted death for every man? Heb 2:9 They will say no.

Calvinist teaches a false gospel. They cite the scriptures that Christ died for the church, his sheep and for his people, but twist or ignore the same bible that says Christ was given FOR THE WORLD, the whole world, the Savior of all men and the Lamb of God which takes away the sins of the world.

Also a Calvinist cannot share the true gospel with any unsaved person and tell them Christ died FOR YOU. They cannot say that. For they do not believe Christ tasted death for every man.Hebrews 2:9 Only for the elect.

 

Now y'all see why the Calvinism/Arminianism forum was shut down

 

was it shut down because of...

-God's will, or
-Man's choice?

(sorry, my smart-aleck medication hasn't been working today)

 

This is a blatantly false statement that contradicts the facts of history. Calvin and others introduced into the church five grossly serious errors that wildly CONTRADICTED THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH FOR 1500 YEARS, teachings that are solidly based upon the Bible rather than the foolish imagination of sinful and arrogant men like John Calvin.

Would you dare to suggest that the entire church was so grossly stupid and so savagely unspiritual that not one member of them was able to understand for 1500 years what the Bible teaches until John Calvin came along and explained it to them? And let’s not forget that the large majority of the Church has continued down to this day to reject all five points of what are commonly referred to as the five points of Calvinism.

And to represent the teaching of the Church for 1500 years as “errors that were creeping in to the church” is the most blatant misrepresentation of the truth that I have ever seen posted on this message board!

 

Calvin and others introduced into the church five grossly serious errors

None of the five points of Calvinism were "introduced into the church" by Calvin or his followers. Learn some real history if you want to be taken seriously.

 

I'm curious. When were Calvin's principle ideas first accepted by the church?

 

I'm curious. When were Calvin's principle ideas first accepted by the church?
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I'm not sure. I think that the church even had trouble accepting them when they were first taught by Paul the Apostle.

 

If "real history" is "you're wrong and I'm right,” I am not interested in learning "real history."

None of the five theological concepts expressed in the Five Points of Calvinism is known to have existed prior to the 16th century, and all five points that they attempt to refute were taught by many throughout the first 1500 years of the church. When Reformed theologians are confronted with this fact, they plead Sola Scriptura, another theological concept that it found nowhere in Bible, making the doctrine of Sola Scriptura self-contradictory.

The doctrine of eternal security has especially been a thorn in the side of Reformed theologians because we have massive amounts of literature in which conditional security was expressly taught from the Scriptures for 1500 years, and not one single document in which the concept of eternal security is so much as mentioned.

If the doctrine of eternal security, as taught by Calvin and his followers, is true, that doctrine is absolute proof that the Bible is not the inspired word of God but the work of poorly skilled writers who wrote so poorly that no one at all was able to understand them for 1500 years.

I and others, in previous threads, have quoted writings of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers in which the doctrine of conditional security was not only clearly taught, but taught in such a manner that it is expressly clear that the writers took the doctrine for granted and knew of no opposition to the doctrine. The outcome has been the chanting of Sola Scriptura! Sola Scriptura! Sola Scriptura! Sola Scriptura! Sola Scriptura! Sola Scriptura!

 

Talk about Calvinism, dump on Calvinism, whatever makes you happy.

The truth is that Scripture teaches that God chose certain unto Salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world and He will bring those so chosen to Salvation. If you want to deny this then you deny Scripture but talk about Calvinism, dump on Calvinism, whatever makes you happy.

Ephesians 1:3-7

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

 

This is a blatantly false statement that contradicts the facts of history. Calvin and others introduced into the church five grossly serious errors that wildly CONTRADICTED THE TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH FOR 1500 YEARS, teachings that are solidly based upon the Bible rather than the foolish imagination of sinful and arrogant men like John Calvin.

Would you dare to suggest that the entire church was so grossly stupid and so savagely unspiritual that not one member of them was able to understand for 1500 years what the Bible teaches until John Calvin came along and explained it to them? And let’s not forget that the large majority of the Church has continued down to this day to reject all five points of what are commonly referred to as the five points of Calvinism.

And to represent the teaching of the Church for 1500 years as “errors that were creeping in to the church” is the most blatant misrepresentation of the truth that I have ever seen posted on this message board!

</font>[/QUOTE]Need I remind you that the "church" from the 4th century or so until the 1500s was mostly Roman Catholic! Show me any pope who had biblical theology during those dark ages.

Read your history. The men of the reformation rescued the true gospel from Catholicism. Since you feel the theology of the church was pure until the evil John Calvin came along, I wonder if you could tell me which bishop or pope you would have supported? When Rome burned Jon Huss at the stake or strangled Wycliff when he was only 42, were they protecting pure doctrine?

Read your history.

 

Where are you getting your straw men?

If anyone is actually interested in the truth of what a Calvinist believes, please ask. These diatribes from Ron are embarrasing.

 

said:

None of the five theological concepts expressed in the Five Points of Calvinism is known to have existed prior to the 16th century

Not by you, anyway. Although I am sure that this information would have come as a surprise to men like Augustine and Gottschalk.

 

The comments that you posted about the Roman Catholic Church and its Popes is irrelevant to our discussion. As we all know, there were a multitude of Roman Catholic writers actively writing from the 5th through the 16th century who wrote independently of the Pope, and none of these writers give any evidence whatsoever of being aware of the existence of the teachingts known today as the Five Points of Calvinism. And, of course, you have read very many of these writings and you know very well that what I am writing here is the truth.

I never said or suggested that the theology of the Church was pure until John Calvin came along. As you well know, I have posted repeatedly that there were very few doctrines about which the Church had an unanimous view, therefore there was much error taught along with the truth. But that is just the point—there was much error taught along with the truth. Not one of the Five Points of Calvinism, however, is anywhere to be found. And regarding the doctrine of conditional security, the Church was unanimous in believing that the Bible says that our continued salvation is dependent upon our continued faith, and that many Christians have not continued in the faith and consequently were lost for eternity subsequent to their salvation.

I have studied the history of the interpretation of the Bible throughout the entire history of the Church from many points of view and I have a large collection of the writings of the ancient church to back up what I have said in my posts.

I assume that you also have studied the history of the interpretation of the Bible throughout the entire history of the Church from many points of view and that you have a large collection of the writings of the ancient church to back up what you have said in your posts. Therefore, please quote just one Christian writer who wrote from the time of the close of the New Testament canon up to the beginning of the 16the century that explicitly teaches the doctrine of eternal security.